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Deliberate incident which has injured DD


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#1 ~~KIM~~

Posted 06 September 2012 - 06:40 PM

Hi there,

My 3yo DD was involved in a serious incident yesterday at her child care centre. A 4yo boy with severe anger management issues ran across the playground and deliberately pushed a few children. One of these children was my DD and she fell face first onto play equipment which has caused a massive black eye. It is very swollen and we are having it xrayed tomorrow to determine if there is a fracture. Apparently there has been issues with this child before and they have a special teacher for 2 weeks to keep an eye on him and to help him. Well so much for that plan as it clearly didn't work. I am going to write an official compliant and the centre is lodging a report with the Dept of Education. The director claims they would like to remove the child from the centre and for him to be put in a place where he can be helped by trained carers but how long does this take?? They are having emergency meetings today/tomorrow.  

We are very worried to send our child back despite assurances she will be ok. Just wondering if anyone else has experienced such problems and if you have advice?

One solution is to pull her out of the centre but this problem could happen anywhere so I don't think it is the answer.

Thanks for reading.

#2 Guest_holy_j_*

Posted 06 September 2012 - 06:47 PM

When my DS was younger and in CC, there was a biter. He previously bit DS once, okay get over it you say, kids bite, but the same day he bit DS again, on the cheek and drew blood he did it that hard. I took him out, i could have never felt safe leaving him there agian, & their response was he's being dealt with and they can't say anything more about the other child due to that family's privacy. I don't really care, its disgusting, how did i know that kid didn't have some disease that was transferred to my son,  and how much that would have hurt my DS!

I personally would take my child out after making the complaint.Clearly they are not equipped to handle such a child and your child is not collateral damage.

Edited by holy_j, 06 September 2012 - 06:50 PM.


#3 madmother

Posted 06 September 2012 - 06:48 PM

Does this child has anger issues or is it something more? I think it is very unprofessional of the director to make such a comment about getting rid of him, and whilst I'd be upset at what has happened to your child, I would be angry at the centre, not the boy.

If he has known issues then they need to have a support structure in place.

Or do you think he should just be locked away from society?  huh.gif

#4 bebe12

Posted 06 September 2012 - 06:50 PM

Hi,

slightly different as my DD feel over by herself. But she was wary the first few times when she went back near the equipment. Having carers she felt comfortable with made it easier - ie getting back on the horse.
Therefore it might be worth keeping her in the same centre at least for a little while so she can deal with any anxiety she may have with the event. Do make sure that the centre knows that you expect them to keep that child away from yours and that they deal with anxiety your DD may have with lots of comforting and reassurance.

I hope that she goes back with out any of these issues.

Sorry i can not help with issue of little boy.

#5 ~~KIM~~

Posted 06 September 2012 - 06:54 PM

The director was being very careful about what she said and she was trying to protect the child as much as possible. My 5yo saw the incident happen and told me and it was confirmed as true. I think they are trying their best to help him but they are clearly not trained to do so. I think the child has special needs and he needs help which he is not getting at the moment. I don't have any issue with any children and know many special needs children. I do however have an issue when any child deliberately hurts my child, she is very lucky she hasn't lost her eye.

#6 EsmeLennox

Posted 06 September 2012 - 07:01 PM

I think your beef is with the centre to be honest. They didn't have adequate strategies in place or this would not have happened. If a 4 year old with a known problem with emotional control can get from one side of the playground to another in a rage without a carer stopping him then supervision was inadequate at the time, especially if they have a 'special teacher'.

I would also like to say that this boy did not deliberately hurt your daughter. She was unfortunately in the wrong place at the wrong time. He was acting out, and I would be upset too, but if this child does have special needs he is not doing it on purpose. I appreciate that it is difficult to be compassionate when our own child has been hurt, but you should think about that a bit I think.

#7 dirtyhoe

Posted 06 September 2012 - 07:08 PM

Centers can and do expel children that put other children in danger. Sometimes you can put in all the implementation you can think of to prevent issues  arising, but it doesn't stop these incidents from happening. All children at a daycare center have a right to safety. A child at DS's center was expelled last year for similar reasons. I hope your DD is ok OP sad.gif

Edited by Excentrique, 06 September 2012 - 07:09 PM.


#8 261071v

Posted 06 September 2012 - 07:16 PM

Our centre has a child where there have been numerous incidents, but nothing as severe as what happened to your DD.  The parents have been asked to be manage his behaviour. He will be expelled if there is another incident.

I hope she is ok.

#9 bakesgirls

Posted 06 September 2012 - 07:24 PM

Sorry your DD was hurt. Hope evrything is OK with her and that there's no fracture.

I don't think you can say it was a deliberate attack by this other child if he has SN. He wouldn't have been able to control it, let alone be aware of the consequences for his actions.

By all means, make a complaint if you need to. It may force them to look at other ways to help with his behaviour. I'd also be questioning where his 'special teacher' was at the time. I know it's hard, especially when it's your little one that was hurt.

I also think it was extrememly unprofessional for the director to discuss that they want the child gone.

#10 Soontobegran

Posted 06 September 2012 - 07:46 PM

QUOTE (~~KIM~~ @ 06/09/2012, 06:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I do however have an issue when any child deliberately hurts my child, she is very lucky she hasn't lost her eye.



I am really sorry that your little girl got hurt, I hope she has no fractures and she recovers well.

It is very unfortunate but I can't think of any of my children whom haven't at some time been a victim of another child's bad behaviour, particularly at pre school but the attack on your little girl was probably not a deliberate attempt to hurt her.
My son bit a child at pre school...quite out of the blue and the only provocation in his words were that he "kept wanting to hug me". We were shocked and went and collected him as soon as it happened but he wasn't special needs, he was a 4 year old who hadn't worked out better coping skills and some poor kid was left with a huge bruise on his back for over a week.

The mother of the other boy was very understanding, so much more than he probably deserved and she could have also asked where the supervision was that allowed my son to do this. It happened in a split second.  sad.gif  
If there really are SN issues the centre needs to do what they can to support both this boy and protect the other children, if they are not seen to be working towards a solution then I'd probably look elsewhere for care.
Again I hope your little girl is OK (she is very sweet) and this situation can be handled appropriately for the well being of everyone.

#11 whale-woman

Posted 06 September 2012 - 08:13 PM

Op -I'm terribly sorry for your daughter. It's very upsetting to see them hurt.

However I agree with Soontobegran. Kids push and hit each other. I don't think it was deliberate on the boys behalf. Your daughter was very unlucky she ended up with such an injury. As a kid I ended up with several black eyes often from trivial injuries eg sneaker flicked up and hit my face whilst I was easing the laces prior to putting them on.

My DD has come home from CC with bite marks on a couple of occasions. On occasion CC have told me DD has hit someone. I don't blame the centre nor do I think DD is special/particularly difficult/more naughty than other kids. I don't think the CC centre is doing a bad job because DD has copped  a couple of bites. They're little kids and they are learning appropriate behavior. Sometimes they get it wrong.

I would worry if it was a repetitive problem or you daughter was being targeted. It sounds like he centre IS responding to manage the issue. I'd also worry that moving your DD will instill more fear in her.

#12 QueenElsa

Posted 06 September 2012 - 08:26 PM

A similar thing happened to DD2 when she was 18 months old. She was attacked by a 5 year old, viciously, and left with a bruise on her head. It occurred at 5pm so I arrived to find her screaming(I heard it from the car park), all the children were moved to a new room for their safety except for the child acting out.  The centre told me they would manage the problem. DH and I decided we would always pick up DDs earlier sp they would never be with this child again (separate playgrounds).

Hope you get something organised.

#13 _Alana_

Posted 06 September 2012 - 08:39 PM

This is why I hate my job ! No idea


#14 wallofdodo

Posted 06 September 2012 - 08:54 PM

I recently had cause to complain about something I saw at my son's daycare. I had a good long think about taking him out.

The things that I focussed on to help me decide were:

Was I happy with the way the centre and manager reacted and handled the situation
Was I comfortable leaving my child there
Was my child happy to still go.

Needless to say he is still there, and the centre have made some changes that I am happy with.

Hope you can come to a descision, it made me really aware that I have little control over his environment for those days, and it scared me a little.

#15 wenchwitch

Posted 06 September 2012 - 09:08 PM

Omg I saw your fb photos and it looks pretty serious. He really should be immediately removed from the centre until a decision is made. This is definitely not in the realms of normal. He obviously needs help which hopefully he will now receive but at present he is too much of a danger to be in the centre with the inadequate level of supervision/support. I truly hope she has no longterm damage.

(I am a mother to a kid who has ADHD/aspergers so do have some experience of anger issues so please dont anyone think I am not sympathetic to the child with issues but this goes way beyond what is acceptable)




#16 libbylu

Posted 06 September 2012 - 09:09 PM

My child was bitten in childcare once.  He also went  a hairpulling spree one day and pulled several children's hair.  As others have said - kids hurt each other.  It is not malicious in most cases, it's just the way it is.  I gave my brother the most horrendous black eye when he was 8 - I did a cartwheel with my heavy school shoes on and my heel hit him in the eye socket at full force.  It was a total accident but it's lucky he wasn't badly injured.  
Although it is clear this incident was caused by a child who has behavioral issues, the same injury could equally have happened by accident if even a gentle child had tripped and knocked your DD over and it doesn't seem that your DD was deliberately targeted.
If I were you I would go ahead and make the complaint, but I wouldn't pull my child out.  Talk about your concerns and ask them what changes they plan to put in place to protect the smaller kids.  One thing the centre could consider is having the smaller children and the bigger children outside at different times, for the protection of the little ones.  At the centers I have been in, the kids are often separate by age into different play areas anyway.

#17 madmother

Posted 07 September 2012 - 07:20 AM

QUOTE (~~KIM~~ @ 06/09/2012, 06:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi there,

My 3yo DD was involved in a serious incident yesterday at her child care centre. A 4yo boy with severe anger management issues ran across the playground and deliberately pushed a few children. One of these children was my DD and she fell face first onto play equipment which has caused a massive black eye. It is very swollen and we are having it xrayed tomorrow to determine if there is a fracture. Apparently there has been issues with this child before and they have a special teacher for 2 weeks to keep an eye on him and to help him. Well so much for that plan as it clearly didn't work. I am going to write an official compliant and the centre is lodging a report with the Dept of Education. The director claims they would like to remove the child from the centre and for him to be put in a place where he can be helped by trained carers but how long does this take?? They are having emergency meetings today/tomorrow.  

We are very worried to send our child back despite assurances she will be ok. Just wondering if anyone else has experienced such problems and if you have advice?

One solution is to pull her out of the centre but this problem could happen anywhere so I don't think it is the answer.

Thanks for reading.



QUOTE (wenchwitch @ 06/09/2012, 09:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Omg I saw your fb photos and it looks pretty serious. He really should be immediately removed from the centre until a decision is made. This is definitely not in the realms of normal. He obviously needs help which hopefully he will now receive but at present he is too much of a danger to be in the centre with the inadequate level of supervision/support. I truly hope she has no longterm damage.

(I am a mother to a kid who has ADHD/aspergers so do have some experience of anger issues so please dont anyone think I am not sympathetic to the child with issues but this goes way beyond what is acceptable)


HE didn't cause the injury directly - the play equipment did. Yes, he pushed her, but seriously? How many kids PUSH or SHOVE?

It is a terrible ACCIDENT caused by a child acting like a child.  rolleyes.gif




#18 idignantlyright

Posted 07 September 2012 - 07:44 AM

QUOTE (madmother @ 06/09/2012, 07:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Or do you think he should just be locked away from society?  huh.gif

Noone has said that.

QUOTE (Jemstar @ 06/09/2012, 08:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I would also like to say that this boy did not deliberately hurt your daughter. She was unfortunately in the wrong place at the wrong time. He was acting out, and I would be upset too, but if this child does have special needs he is not doing it on purpose. I appreciate that it is difficult to be compassionate when our own child has been hurt, but you should think about that a bit I think.

Why should she think about it?
Should I have stopped and thought about the blood and possible broken nose(thankfully it wasn't) when a child deliberately slammed my childs face into a bus window?
This child was also known to have anger issues. His parents didn't give a damn and tried to put the blame back on my child. Their DS went on to cause serious harm to other kids in high school as well.

QUOTE (madmother @ 07/09/2012, 08:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
HE didn't cause the injury directly - the play equipment did. Yes, he pushed her, but seriously? How many kids PUSH or SHOVE?

It is a terrible ACCIDENT caused by a child acting like a child.  rolleyes.gif

He pushed the child, the playground equipment didn't jump up and hurt her.

Yes some accidents are just that. However sometimes the child does need to have help in managing their behaviour so others are not harmed like this. I wouldn't be pulling her out if she was okay with going back. However I would be making sure that steps were taken so this couldn't happen again.



#19 mumandboys

Posted 07 September 2012 - 07:58 AM

Wow.  I guess different centres have different standards/consequences for this kind of behaviour.

My 4 yo DS has some anger management issues.  He would do things like throw books around, chuck sand out of the sandpit, and pick up chairs and hold them over his head.

Even though he never threatened the other children (his anger seems to be directed at authority figures), the centre started making noises that if he continues he won't be allowed to attend, because of potential safety concerns for other children.

As devastating as that result would have been for me, and my employment, I had to respect their stance - the other kids are entitled to a safe environment.  

Lucky for me his emotional control is improving (albeit slowly) as he gets older, and he's now capable of behaving at the centre (although still has much work to do at home!)



#20 Lightning_bug

Posted 07 September 2012 - 07:58 AM

QUOTE (idignantlyright @ 07/09/2012, 07:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Should I have stopped and thought about the blood and possible broken nose(thankfully it wasn't) when a child deliberately slammed my childs face into a bus window?

He pushed the child, the playground equipment didn't jump up and hurt her.


Can you see the difference between these two incidents?  They're miles apart.

In your case the child pushed your child into a window deliberately to cause harm.

In the OPs the child pushed a child out of the way.  That was the child's action and intent.

He couldn't forsee that she would fall on play equipment because he wasn't thinking about that.  He was thinking about getting from A - B and unfortunately not thinking about the consequences.

Intentionally inflicting harm on someone and setting off a chain of events which lead to a someone being harmed.

#21 Mpjp is feral

Posted 07 September 2012 - 08:05 AM

QUOTE (wenchwitch @ 06/09/2012, 09:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Omg I saw your fb photos and it looks pretty serious. He really should be immediately removed from the centre until a decision is made. This is definitely not in the realms of normal. He obviously needs help which hopefully he will now receive but at present he is too much of a danger to be in the centre with the inadequate level of supervision/support. I truly hope she has no longterm damage.


He PUSHED the OP's child out of the way and ass a concequence she fell on a piece of equipment that then caused the injury. As a 4 yo the child would not have had the forethought to understand all the potential concequences of his actions. There is a huge difference betweeen the child intentionally inflicting that sort of injury and doing something that unintentionally caused a chain of events that ended in the bruised faced. The OP's child could have just as easily fallen softly on the tan bark and bounced up without a squeek.

#22 got my tinsel on

Posted 07 September 2012 - 08:06 AM

QUOTE
In the OPs the child pushed a child out of the way. That was the child's action and intent.


The OP didn't say that the child pushed her child "out of the way".  

It would seem that he ran across the playground to push the children. Not to gain access to equipment but for the purpose of pushing them.

#23 _Alana_

Posted 07 September 2012 - 08:16 AM

Ok so you said there is a special needs assistant there - he was fast when he ran ( it happens in seconds sometimes ) Do you want him on a leash tied to her so he can't run, it happens ! Getting an assistant isn't easy. There are steps in process because of the government. What if it was a nt child who ran fell into your child and the same injury resulted ...... Where's your beef than ?
The euipment hurt her - would you like it all to be made from foam or how about no equipment at all and the children can walk aimlessly around the yard ( I can guarantee you there will be alot more accidents this way ! ) My son at daycare ( my daycare ) tripped over a toy and fell into a table needing stitches to his eye - should I have all tables removed ?
How about before blowing up at the centre you have a think about the teachers. Constantly we are going home feeling emotionally low frrom coping the crap parents seems to have the right to dish out. They would already be upset that a child in their care got hurt as it is, but than to listen and have the stress of a formal complaint about utter crap of it being everyone's fault hurts.
Would you feel sh*tty going home from work after having such a complaint made when something just wasn't your fault.


#24 madmother

Posted 07 September 2012 - 08:26 AM

No, she didn't say lock him away - she said she wanted him booted out of the centre.

I too think it is a truly terrible thing to happen - for both children. They are young kids. Not teenagers, not even in formal school where these behaviours cannot be allowed without consequence.

Do you even know what happened to the little boy? Are you aware or have you spoken to his parents about the incident?

For all the info given here, who is to know if this has not absolutely shattered them, and if they are in desperation wondering if those few steps forward (special teacher monitoring/helping their son) were going to be ripped away?

He is FOUR! FGS, it was an accident that happened, he did not mean for your daughter to be injured, he would not have been considering the consequences at all. SN or not, HE IS FOUR!  mad.gif

#25 got my tinsel on

Posted 07 September 2012 - 08:33 AM

QUOTE
No, she didn't say lock him away - she said she wanted him booted out of the centre.


I suggest you go back and read the OP's posts.  Nowhere has she said that she wants him "booted out".  In fact she is considering removing her own child.

OP did say that the Director of the centre said the centre would like him removed.








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