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Another newborn with Whooping Cough
When will they ever learn


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29 replies to this topic

#1 CharliMarley

Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:36 PM

cry1.gif I have a friend who is a infectious disease Professor and he gets so mad when he hears about these things happening all the time. And as Peter Paul and Mary sang -"when will they ever learn". We didn't have this at all when my children were babies, because everyone was vaccinated. rant.gif

#2 Gossipgirl

Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:54 PM

I'm not sure getting into a debate over vaccinations is a good idea however I do agree with you regarding whooping cough.

I was 16 weeks pregnant when I had whooping cough I ended up in hospital and honestly I felt like death my oxygen was so low I couldn't stop coughing enough to take a breath I really have no idea how I go through it because everyday I thought I would stop breathing or pass out.
When I was in hospital there were 2 newborn babies also with whooping cough and it was horrible they were so small and the lungs were not coping at all I felt horrible and so glad I vaccinated my daughter so she didn't catch it from me at the time.

I hope the babies pulled through like I did.

#3 Cat People

Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:57 PM

People still get it when they are vaccinated.  This probably has nothing to do with vax numbers - isn't this a new strain?



#4 Lolpigs

Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:00 PM

Yeah they have only just realised WC is more like the Flu than like say measles. It adapts and changes. They have changed the vaccine too but no vaccine gives you 100% protection sadly.

Outbreaks almost always start with an unvaccinated person however.

#5 SnazzyFeral

Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:06 PM

I was tested for whooping cough last week. My GP said my cough could be that or a post viral thing because sometimes the vaccination doesn't work.I had had the cough for 3 weeks so if it was whooping cough would have shared it around.  I and all my family have been vaccinated since before my DS was born. On that basis I think the problem is a lack of understanding about whooping cough and its symptoms. If you are worried about it how about petitioning the government to make it better known and the vaccine cheaper so people have an incentive to get it. $50 is a lot of money to many people.

#6 Guest_Sunnycat_*

Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:11 PM

Im sure there was a report recently that showed the majority of children who contracted WC were vaccinated.

#7 Lolpigs

Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:16 PM

Yeah sunny due to the change in vaccine, and new strain and no follow up with adult boosters. They thought the old vaccine lasted, without a booster but they were wrong.

They really do need to get on top of it, and start getting people to have their adult booster in large numbers, and subsidise it especially seeing as the new vaccine needs 3 doses before bubs are covered.

#8 tenar

Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:18 PM

QUOTE (Sunnycat @ 04/12/2012, 08:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Im sure there was a report recently that showed the majority of children who contracted WC were vaccinated.


That should be the case, actually.  Unfortunately, it's a meaningless statistic which is often trotted out by people who don't understand probability (especially those who are anti-vaccines already).

In any situation where most people are vaccinated but the vaccine is imperfect, you will get more people catching the disease who are vaccinated but the vaccine didn't work for them than you get of people who are unvaccinated.

IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT BEING UNVACCINATED IS SAFER -  IT (usually, barring medical contraindications for some individuals) ISN'T.  

Think of it rather this way, if the whooping cough vaccine is 84% effective against the disease, then you have about a 16% chance of getting it if you are vaccinated and exposed to the virus.  

If you are unvaccinated and exposed to the virus, you have about a 100% chance of getting it.   Clearly more dangerous...

#9 LookMumNoHands

Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:19 PM

Like a PP, I had whooping cough last year, and went undiagnosed for 3 weeks until the blood test confirmed that I did indeed have it. So I would have infected people, I'm sure. I've also had all my immunisations.


#10 Feral*Spikey*

Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:28 PM

Sunnycat, its a statistical thing.

As around 80-90% of children are vaccinated against WC, it make sense that if it doesn't provide 100% protection, then 'more' children will get WC.

So, imagine there are 2 million children in Australia and 90% are vaccinated. That means 200,000 children are not vaccinated, but 1.8 million children are. If the vaccine is only 80% effective, then only 1.44 million children are protected, and 360,000 are not.

What you really want to compare is the rate of infection between vaccinated and non-vaccinated kids, because otherwise the 'rate' is skewed.

For vaccination to be ineffective, the rate of the disease (and the severity) needs to be the same or higher amongst vaccinated children when compared to non-vaccinated children.

In fact, for Australia:

QUOTE
So if immunisation programs have been successful, why is whooping cough still a problem?

Prevents severe illness and death

The short answer, according to immunisation expert Professor Peter McIntyre, is because the pertussis vaccine is good at reducing the risk of severe disease and death, but is not necessarily going to prevent infection altogether.

"It's not like measles vaccine where if you have the vaccine you just won't get measles infection," says McIntyre, director of the National Centre for Immunisation Research and Surveillance of Vaccine-Preventable Diseases at the University of Sydney.

"The pertussis vaccine is decreasing the amount of infection to some extent, but mostly what it's doing is decreasing how sick you get."

This means children who might otherwise have got extremely sick and ended up in intensive care on oxygen or even died, now get a milder infection or sometimes show no symptoms at all.

Also if you've had the vaccine you're less likely to transmit the disease to those around you.

However, it does mean that a significant proportion of infections will occur in vaccinated individuals.

"You'd expect that because if 95 per cent of kids are immunised and if you find that 95 per cent of the cases are also immunised, then that means that the vaccine's not doing anything," McIntyre says.

But that's not the case. Only about 70 per cent of reported cases of whooping cough occur in people who have had the pertussis vaccine.

"That's telling you that the vaccine is working and if you do the numbers, that equates to about an 80 per cent effectiveness of the vaccine."


This article is a good explanation about the rates.

So, the bottom line is that more non-vaccinated people get WC, as a percentage, than vaccinated people. Vaccination is playing safe on the percentages.

#11 purplekitty

Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:10 PM

QUOTE (Lolpigs @ 04/12/2012, 07:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah they have only just realised WC is more like the Flu than like say measles. It adapts and changes. They have changed the vaccine too but no vaccine gives you 100% protection sadly.
The change from "whole cell" to acellular was done to reduce the side effects.It actually has less antigens in it.

QUOTE (Sunnycat @ 04/12/2012, 07:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Im sure there was a report recently that showed the majority of children who contracted WC were vaccinated.
True or False:There are more vaccinated cases than unvaccinated.
Here is an app. that illustrates this.
Number vs. Percentage of infections


#12 Pop-to-the-shops

Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:24 PM

QUOTE
"The pertussis vaccine is decreasing the amount of infection to some extent, but mostly what it's doing is decreasing how sick you get."

This means children who might otherwise have got extremely sick and ended up in intensive care on oxygen or even died, now get a milder infection or sometimes show no symptoms at all.


My whole family has just had it, including my bub who was about three months. We had our first lot of injections, and our dr said it was probably this that saved him.

We managed to stay out of hospital, and had a milder dose. If that was mild I would hate to see severe. It was absolutely horrendous.

#13 adl

Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:33 PM

Anyone who is looking after a newborn, or elderly or vulnerable etc can get the booster for free, there is no form or anything so all you need to say is you will be seeing a newborn etc and you can have the booster, well that's what happened in NSW at my GPs....

I had Whooping Cough in 2003,all vaccinated and while awful it wasn't so severe that I was hospitalized or was off work more than about 7. Days ?

#14 Soontobegran

Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:36 PM

QUOTE (adl @ 04/12/2012, 09:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Anyone who is looking after a newborn, or elderly or vulnerable etc can get the booster for free, there is no form or anything so all you need to say is you will be seeing a newborn etc and you can have the booster, well that's what happened in NSW at my GPs....

Doesn't happen anymore...well not in Victoria anyway:-(


#15 Flutter Bug

Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:59 PM

My FULLY VACCINATED niece, nephew and daughter each contracted whooping cough last year. So not a case of "when will they ever learn". I was under the impression that the current WC vaccine doesn't give 100% immunity anyway.

#16 4kidlets

Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:40 PM

QUOTE
They really do need to get on top of it, and start getting people to have their adult booster in large numbers, and subsidise it especially seeing as the new vaccine needs 3 doses before bubs are covered.



Im not sure what you mean by this? - whooping cough has been part of the 2 , 4 , 6 month vaccines for long long time - you have always needed 3 doses to be fully covered.


QUOTE
Anyone who is looking after a newborn, or elderly or vulnerable etc can get the booster for free, there is no form or anything so all you need to say is you will be seeing a newborn etc and you can have the booster, well that's what happened in NSW at my GPs....


Free boosters for adults are a state initiative - therefore varies from state to state. unlike the NIP program for childhood vaccines which is nation wide.

- no adults can get free boosters in SA any more.

#17 Guest_~Karla~_*

Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:56 PM

QUOTE (tenar @ 04/12/2012, 07:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If you are unvaccinated and exposed to the virus, you have about a 100% chance of getting it.   Clearly more dangerous...


Bullsh*t.

My fully vaccinated to schedule 6yo got whooping cough a few months ago. 3 weeks later, my twins and i and DH got. DH and I had boosters 3-4 years ago. The twins didn't seroconvert the pertussis vaccine (along with most of them). The toddler is on a very delayed vaccination schedule and didn't get it. Interestingly, DH and the twins had a cold and mild cough while i felt like i had a bad flu with a mild cough and a single course of ab's fixed us all up. The toddler went on a prophylactic course of AB's but never showed a symptom. DS1, the only one vaccinated to schedule who seroconverts vaccines, was the sickest. He has had 3 lots of AB's and still wakes coughing until he gags/vomits at least 2-3 times a night.

I know it's anecdata, but you cannot spout that that non-vaccinated people have a 100% chance of getting it because that is simply not true.

#18 mumtoactivetoddler

Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:57 PM

And it would be nice if they would separate it from the tetanus booster too, I can't have tetanus booster so can't have the whooping cough one. But all of us had WC last year (and my kids were fully vaccinated)

#19 ekbaby

Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:59 PM

My 2 fully vaxxed kids had WC this year, older one had no symptoms and it was only because I asked for him to be swabbed too that he was treated and kept away from other kids.

The strain they had is not covered by the vaccine.

#20 mindy05

Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:55 AM

The case on the news last night was a baby under 3 weeks old. And they mentioned then that the vaccine is no longer free to parents and the elderly.

#21 Natttmumm

Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:01 AM

I really hope they sort the vaccine out soon to cover the new strain - health department told me it was a new strain at the time. Both mine got it and were fully vaccinated. They were ok but I worried so much whether they has passed it on to any new babies at the time. I was racking my mind thinking of who we had seen etc.

Since that I never take my girls visiting new babies (under 3 months old) just in case they are sick with something and It hadnt showed up yet. We are expecting number 3 soon and it freaks me out.

#22 Bluemakede

Posted 05 December 2012 - 03:28 PM

QUOTE (mumtoactivetoddler @ 04/12/2012, 10:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And it would be nice if they would separate it from the tetanus booster too, I can't have tetanus booster so can't have the whooping cough one. But all of us had WC last year (and my kids were fully vaccinated)


You can get it on its own original.gif I had the vaccine done separate last year, dr just wrote me a script for it and I got it from the chemist, the dtp they just give for free at my dr's so no script needed.



#23 4kidlets

Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:19 PM

QUOTE
You can get it on its own original.gif I had the vaccine done separate last year, dr just wrote me a script for it and I got it from the chemist, the dtp they just give for free at my dr's so no script needed.


Are you sure about this?  I dont think whooping cough vaccine is available as a stand alone vaccine in Australia.I have never seen it and  I do a lot of vaccinating.

The one you can get from the doctors for free is ADT - adult diptheria and tetanus - you cannot get adult dtp - diptheria, tetanuss, pertussis (whooping cough) free at the doctors - thats the one people get on script for whooping cough coverage and yes they get tetanus and diptheria as well

#24 Gossipgirl

Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:25 PM

In SA my Dr does a booster for free my family have had it done last year original.gif

#25 4kidlets

Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:37 PM

There was a brief program in SA a year or so ago whereby parents/grandparents on health care cards could get free Boostrix - some doctors probably bent the rules and gave it to non health care card holders too.


However this program has now ceased - doctors canot access any free Boostrix for anyone any more.


The only free Boostrix currently availabe in SA is to Year 9 students through the NIP high school program. This program runs through councils at high schools only ie not available through doctors surgeries  - except by individual case by case approval for Year 9 student to have outside the school.(eg for a student with special needs who would not cope in school setting) and vaccine is sent in single supply for exempted student only, the surgeries do not have  supplies of Boostrix to give to anyone else.




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