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No, your not entitled to your opinion
only those that you can argue for.


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#1 StarsInHerEyes

Posted 18 December 2012 - 11:08 AM

I came across this article on The Conversation and wondered what people thought about it.

Full article

Do you think that the statement "I am entitled to my opinion" creates a
QUOTE
false equivalence between experts and non-experts that is an increasingly pernicious feature of our public discourse
?

What do you think the phase "entitled to my opinion" means when people use it?

QUOTE
No-one has the right to stop people thinking and saying whatever they want


or

QUOTE
Entitled to have your views treated as serious candidates for the truth


I am just interested in what others thought about this article. I found it thought provoking.

Edited by StarsInHerEyes, 18 December 2012 - 11:09 AM.


#2 BobTony

Posted 18 December 2012 - 11:16 AM

I fully agree with it. I don't think Nazis are entitled to their opinion if that opinion means that others of a different race or religion are treated as lesser for no reason other than the colour of their skin, which is not a valid reason.

It sh*ts me to tears when I hear twits like Lord Monckton going on about the great climate change conspiracy when he does not have the technical knowlege or education to talk about it, and is merely parrotting the loopier edge of reason. Same with Meryl Dorey.

Yes, they can have their option, but saying that they are entitled to their opinion implies that it the same weight as someone who actually has some expertise in the field in question, and that I do not agree with.

Edited by JingleBob, 18 December 2012 - 11:16 AM.


#3 RobotFerretOfDoom

Posted 18 December 2012 - 11:33 AM

What Bob just said.

You're entitled to have your own opinion. What you're not entitled to is respect for your opinion. That has to be earned by the value of the opinion itself.

And you are not entitled to express your opinion and not have it challenged.

Edited by WootFerretOfDoom, 18 December 2012 - 11:37 AM.


#4 countrymel

Posted 18 December 2012 - 11:39 AM

QUOTE (WootFerretOfDoom @ 18/12/2012, 12:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You're entitled to have your own opinion. What you're not entitled to is respect for your opinion. That has to be earned by the value of the opinion itself.

And you are not entitled to express your opinion and not have it challenged.



Thank you WFoD - that's it in a nutshell.



#5 Escapin

Posted 18 December 2012 - 11:39 AM

Yep, drives me mental too.

#6 cinnabubble

Posted 18 December 2012 - 11:40 AM

You're all entitled to my opinion. At great length.



#7 RichardParker

Posted 18 December 2012 - 11:44 AM

Sure, you're entitled to your opinion.  But that opinion is about as useless as a magical unicorn if it cannot be supported by reason, evidence and reasonable argument.  

If you want to hold onto an opinion in the face of reasonable opposition, without providing a counter-argument, then I'm entitled to opine that you are an idiot.

#8 LifesGood

Posted 18 December 2012 - 11:45 AM

QUOTE (cinnabubble @ 18/12/2012, 12:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You're all entitled to my opinion. At great length.

And highly entertaining it is too.

Jinglebob sums up exactly how I feel about it.

#9 ILBB

Posted 18 December 2012 - 11:46 AM



QUOTE
You're entitled to have your own opinion. What you're not entitled to is respect for your opinion. That has to be earned by the value of the opinion itself.

And you are not entitled to express your opinion and not have it challenged.
Yep this - saves me working out how to say it and not as eloquently!

#10 HeroOfCanton

Posted 18 December 2012 - 11:49 AM

QUOTE (WootFerretOfDoom @ 18/12/2012, 12:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What Bob just said.

You're entitled to have your own opinion. What you're not entitled to is respect for your opinion. That has to be earned by the value of the opinion itself.

And you are not entitled to express your opinion and not have it challenged.

This. says it better than I could.

#11 RobotFerretOfDoom

Posted 18 December 2012 - 11:49 AM

QUOTE (*Greenbag* @ 18/12/2012, 12:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sure, you're entitled to your opinion.  But that opinion is about as useless as a magical unicorn if it cannot be supported by reason, evidence and reasonable argument.



HOW DARE YOU QUESTION THE VALUE OF MAGICAL UNICORNS????

#12 Alacritous~Andy

Posted 18 December 2012 - 11:52 AM

I am reminded of one of my favourite Dilbert-isms:

"Ignorance is not a point of view."

#13 Livsh

Posted 18 December 2012 - 11:52 AM

Great article, I especially liked the bit about only being entitled to something that you can argue for.

I get so p*ssed at hearing bullsh*t spouted by people that, when challenged, have no ability or knowledge to defend their point of view and incite some inalienable right to an 'opinion' like that somehow negates all need to justify that opinion.

Next time I come across someone like that - probably soon, I'm going home for christmas - I'm going to tell them that the only opinion they are entitled to is one that they can actually argue and if they can't then I don't want to hear some bullsh*t about how climate change isn't happening, milk is poison and vaccines are a form of government mind control!

I am going to have a fun christmas!

#14 purplekitty

Posted 18 December 2012 - 11:54 AM

It's a great article by a member of the SAVN.

QUOTE (cinnabubble @ 18/12/2012, 11:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You're all entitled to my opinion. At great length.
I always look forward to it.

QUOTE (WootFerretOfDoom @ 18/12/2012, 11:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
HOW DARE YOU QUESTION THE VALUE OF MAGICAL UNICORNS????
Yes. I have one in my backyard.It keeps the grass down.


#15 Livsh

Posted 18 December 2012 - 11:54 AM

QUOTE (*Greenbag* @ 18/12/2012, 12:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sure, you're entitled to your opinion.  But that opinion is about as useless as a magical unicorn if it cannot be supported by reason, evidence and reasonable argument.  

If you want to hold onto an opinion in the face of reasonable opposition, without providing a counter-argument, then I'm entitled to opine that you are an idiot.


I lose arguments with my magical unicorn all the time...

#16 Alacritous~Andy

Posted 18 December 2012 - 11:55 AM

QUOTE (WootFerretOfDoom @ 18/12/2012, 11:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
HOW DARE YOU QUESTION THE VALUE OF MAGICAL UNICORNS????


Yeah.  It would be hella uselful to have a magical unicorn around.  For one, their horn would be a great place to store all kinds of things: donuts, bagels, Christmas wreaths, coits.

#17 Guest_Maybelle_*

Posted 18 December 2012 - 11:57 AM

My opinion is Bob's opinion.  Or Bob's opinion is my opinion.  That seems to happen a hell of a lot  original.gif 'Cause Bob is clever and thoughtful and whatnot.  Where as I haven't even had coffee so can't come up with anything more clever to say than "what she said".

#18 steppy

Posted 18 December 2012 - 12:00 PM

QUOTE (WootFerretOfDoom @ 18/12/2012, 12:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What Bob just said.

You're entitled to have your own opinion. What you're not entitled to is respect for your opinion. That has to be earned by the value of the opinion itself.

And you are not entitled to express your opinion and not have it challenged.


This is what I believe too. I'm willing to respect that people can have an opinion, but I'm not willing to concede that this means their opinion is sacred and must not be challenged.

I guess I interpret the phrase "I'm entitled to my opinion" not in the sense discussed in that article - more that people are entitled to say and think whatever they like. I agree with that. They just don't get to control what other people say and think about what they just said or thought as result. You can't use the opinion line to discredit another opinion - it's not logical and fails as an argument.

Edited by steppy, 18 December 2012 - 12:09 PM.


#19 Laborious Nicety

Posted 18 December 2012 - 12:05 PM

Youse are all wrong.

#20 Tigerdog

Posted 18 December 2012 - 12:06 PM

Meh, the article is a waste of space, trying to make an ethical argument out of nothing at all.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion, it may not have anything to do with fact:

o·pin·ion  
/əˈpinyən/Noun
  • A view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
  • The beliefs or views of a large number or majority of people about a particular thing.
By its very definition an opinion is only a view (and there's no such thing as a single view - there is usually more than one according to the definition of that word!). It's as simple at that!

Edited by Tigerdog, 18 December 2012 - 12:07 PM.


#21 Jane Jetson

Posted 18 December 2012 - 12:11 PM

QUOTE (Tigerdog @ 18/12/2012, 01:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
By its very definition an opinion is only a view (and there's no such thing as a single view - there is usually more than one according to the definition of that word!). It's as simple at that!


If only it was as simple as that. All too often these offensive/blatantly factually incorrect opinions are not just held, but actively propagated by dingbats who believe they have a God-given right to tell the rest of us what to think.

Sure, people can sit there thinking that non-white people are inferior or women should be kept in the kitchen or vaccination doesn't work, but the second they open their mouth to share that opinion their rights end.

#22 opethmum

Posted 18 December 2012 - 12:12 PM

I hate when people are challenged they scream YAAB and storm off and create unnecessary drama.


#23 Livsh

Posted 18 December 2012 - 12:12 PM

QUOTE (Tigerdog @ 18/12/2012, 01:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Meh, the article is a waste of space, trying to make an ethical argument out of nothing at all.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion, it may not have anything to do with fact:

o·pin·ion  
/əˈpinyən/Noun
  • A view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
  • The beliefs or views of a large number or majority of people about a particular thing.
By its very definition an opinion is only a view (and there's no such thing as a single view - there is usually more than one according to the definition of that word!). It's as simple at that!



In your definition an opinion is a view or judgement FORMED ABOUT SOMETHING, the act of forming an opinion implies that a person must have some basis for that opinion. The article is addressing those individuals who incite the entitlement to an opinion as a form of argument.

Nothing p*sses me off more than someone who tries to circumvent a conversation with 'I'm entitled to my opinion that all red haired men should be forcibly shaved and dyed". Like that is the end of the conversation, I have evoked my entitlement therefore I have won the argument.



#24 BobTony

Posted 18 December 2012 - 12:14 PM

QUOTE (Livsh @ 18/12/2012, 12:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Next time I come across someone like that - probably soon, I'm going home for christmas - I'm going to tell them that the only opinion they are entitled to is one that they can actually argue and if they can't then I don't want to hear some bullsh*t about how climate change isn't happening, milk is poison and vaccines are a form of government mind control!

I am going to have a fun christmas!


Can we have a thread on that?  wink.gif  ph34r.gif
QUOTE (Maybelle @ 18/12/2012, 12:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My opinion is Bob's opinion.  Or Bob's opinion is my opinion.  That seems to happen a hell of a lot  original.gif 'Cause Bob is clever and thoughtful and whatnot.  Where as I haven't even had coffee so can't come up with anything more clever to say than "what she said".

Nawww, shucks  blush.gif  hheart.gif

#25 rosiebird

Posted 18 December 2012 - 12:15 PM

Having an opinion isn't an entitlement, it's just impossible to stop people from having them!




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