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#1 pheazoid

Posted 18 January 2013 - 10:29 AM

Hey ladies,

I'm almost 38 weeks and due end of Jan or early Feb - first baby!

My baby is in Frank breech position and hasn't turned. Tried homeopathy - which normally always works for me - but that failed. Moxibustion failed. Spinning babies positions failed. Did an ECV earlier this week and that failed. Normally go swimming and walking and still nothing.

My baby is about 3.5kg, and I have a decent amount of amniotic fluid. I spoke to a doctor this week and she kept trying to push me into booking a c-section. She got annoyed when I wanted to know more about vaginal breech birth and suggested that I "needed counselling", so booked me in to speak to someone who is more informed than her on Tuesday next week.

As you can imagine, I've been doing SO MUCH research about c-sections and natural breech births, and I feel like I've hit a wall. They both have their pros and cons. My major concern with vaginal birth since he most likely won't turn is that there's a 1% chance of fetal mortality due to the head being stuck in the birth canal, cord prolapse, etc, not to mention that some LO's come out with broken arms and what have you. Also, episiotomy! Concerns with the elective c-section are things like recovery time, not being able to do things as I would have been able to had I opted for the vaginal birth.

I am SO confused. I want what is best firstly for him and then for me. Has anyone experienced this sort of thing with their first baby? I'd very much like your opinions about what a first time mother with a breech baby that won't turn would do! Whether or not he turns now is of no consequence to me since I accept that he'll come whether or not he turns.

Any advice, opinions, discussion of past experiences would be much appreciated!

#2 raone

Posted 18 January 2013 - 10:53 AM

Hi didn't have a breech baby but did have a csection

Personally I would be scared of the mortality rate, but as I haven't been in you position it's up to you. I would weigh the risk of both options for my baby.

What I can tell you is about my c section. I healed very well. Only struggled with getting around for a week. Which I would assume would be just as hard if you have an episitomy. I had to wait till six weeks before I could do light exercise. But I was still able to run the household in that time. For example I could lift heavy stuff hang washing etc. I waited until 4 weeks before driving but think I could have earlier. At four and a half months later I feel normal. My scar is very small and think it will be hard to see in a few years.
I think if you have healed well in the past and take it easy for a bit you should have no problems as I did.

Trust me though when I say while you are healing for the first couple of week you shouldn't want to do much more then care for the baby. You will be so tired from waking every couple of hours that you need to sleep when the baby does. This baby was my first and I thought I would be doing all these things like cooking and cleaning etc. But when it came time I was stuck on the couch more often than not trying to feed or get bub to sleep. biggrin.gif

Hope that made sense OP Feel free to ask any questions!

#3 pheazoid

Posted 18 January 2013 - 11:31 AM

Thanks for your reply Raone!

My question for you then is regarding breastfeeding and whether or not you tried and were successful and/or still are breastfeeding?

Also, since I'm planning on using cloth nappies - how long was it until you could bend and do washing and hanging things on the line?

#4 chickenpants

Posted 18 January 2013 - 11:59 AM

I had a c-section (unplanned!) but had no issue with breastfeeding at all.  Once he was born he was wrapped up and given to us straightaway while they were fixing me up.  I was moved to recovery and the midwives carried him across and put him on the boob while I was there during the post-op period.

I recovered really well, I had no real pain and only tool panadol once or twice after going home. Breastfeeding also went really well there until I had a major hiccup with an abscess and had to have additional surgery for it (don't worry, the abscess wasn't near the incision).  I still am breastfeeding now at 3.5 months but I comp feed with formula.

You do have to be careful how you do things - watch how you lift the washing basket for one! I was used to lugging it across the front of my body, but that is where the incision was. Make sure it's not too full. I found it easier to take the washing out in 2-3 smaller loads rather than all at once.   Bend at your knees, rather than the waist - a similar way to how you would do it when heavily pregnant. Especially in the first 2 weeks anyhow while your incision is still healing and tender.

I was glued up and then had a weird rubber type bandage on it which came off after 1 week - your experience may differ if you get stapled or stitched.

#5 Bluenomi

Posted 18 January 2013 - 12:15 PM

A planned c section is much bettr than an emergency one. So if I had the choice between a planned section or trying to go natural and there being a good chance I'd need an emergency c section, I'd take the planned.

#6 pheazoid

Posted 18 January 2013 - 01:23 PM

Thanks Chickenpants and Bluenomi for your replies and relating your experiences!

Just one more question for those of you who had c/s! Did you notice any breathing difficulties in your baby after birth and/or now? I've read in medical journals about increased risk of respiratory morbidity and I wonder how many people's babies have experienced it?

#7 chickenpants

Posted 18 January 2013 - 01:37 PM

I did find that my little guy was a bit vomity in the first few days while in hospital, he was throwing up a clear mucus-type something.  He did it just before a midwife came to check on me and I showed her and asked about it. She said it was because he wasn't squeezed on his way out to help rid him of it.  He had stopped by the time I went home and has been fine ever since.

I've kept a good eye on his breathing because I had difficulties as a baby (a near-sids experience).

#8 pheazoid

Posted 18 January 2013 - 01:52 PM

Ahhh I see, thanks Chicken.

I guess either way there's risks on both sides to consider whether I opt for elective c/s or VBB.

This decision is one of the most difficult I have ever faced! I know of people who have successfully had breech births, but none that I know of at the RPA hospital in Camperdown, Sydney.

#9 sarkazm76

Posted 18 January 2013 - 01:58 PM

I don't have any experience but if it was me... I'd wait and see.  If I went into natural labour I'd try and see it through.  But if I was overdue and it was hapenning I might just go the c-section and be done with it, lol.
If I was going to go vaginal I'd hunt around and find a team who would support me and had experience so I would feel more safe and in good hands.
Good luck original.gif

#10 pheazoid

Posted 18 January 2013 - 02:14 PM

Sarkazm it is a really tough choice because breech birth is apparently nothing like regular cephalic birth. I am terrified of 3rd or 4th degree tears or episiotomy. The hospital said they'd have me attached to monitors so my movements would be very limited. And finally, head entanglement can be an issue. I know it's 1% but really? Would you take that risk? Could you really live with yourself if you happened to be that 1% and the baby died of asphyxia from a nuchal cord or head entanglement?

#11 sarkazm76

Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:45 PM

I haven't done the research you have - I thought you wanted opinions.  Sorry.  You're in a very hard position.  But you also sound like you already know what you think is the best way for you to go.
I guess my main point was that if it was me and I felt strongly about the option of vaginal delivery then I would find a team to talk to rather than just research online.  Because you can drive yourself crazy with the possibel outcomes even for a "normal" delivery.


#12 niban

Posted 18 January 2013 - 10:30 PM


This is just anecdata being my experience, but hopefully a bit helpful

#1 was breech right up till being turned by ECV at about 38 weeks. I was going through a BC, I felt very strongly about the baby choosing when to come, having a VB etc - I had tried acupuncture, headstands in the pool, spinning babies.  Anyhow, I was induced at 40+16 (baby never descended, he was still high when I had ARM done) and while it was a VB it was forceps in the end and a long hard recovery (I had a bad PPH too)   - something like 8 weeks of pain sitting plus recovering from the blood loss

#2 was breech but turned by himself by about 32 weeks (incidentally through the BC at RPA)  Went into labour naturally but ended up with an emerg c-section.  I was home in 40 hours and recovery was fast - TBH far faster than with #1, on Panadol only before day 5 and doing school runs a couple of days later (though of course I didn't have the first-time mum shock to the system to contend with).  No problems b/feeding (we're still going at 2 1/2), on his first night in hospital he was a little chest gunky at one stage briefly but that was it.

With perfect hindsight a c-sec would've been probably been the way to go for #1 but at the same time there's no regrets for how I did it. In your case though with a failed ECV and having tried alternatives I would have to feel very confident about the carers and their experience with breech birth to try.  I guess going to the meeting on Tuesday with an open mind and a list of questions might help you make a final decision?

niban



#13 kattrel

Posted 18 January 2013 - 10:36 PM

Pheazoid - My first son was breech and I had a c-section.  I tried just about everything to turn him but he was determined to stay where he was.  At the time, I didn't really look all that much into vaginal breech birth as I was happy to have a healthy baby at the end and I knew this was the safest option for him.  My DS handled the delivery fine and was healthy and well from his first day.  I did have trouble feeding him but that was more to do with attachment issues etc than with the c-section.  FWIW, I did actually go into labour naturally as he ended up surprising us two weeks early but the thought never even crossed my mind to try for a vaginal delivery.  For me, it was more important to do the safest thing for my baby.  I was actually lucky as I recovered really quickly afterwards, I didn't need any pain relief by the time I came home.

I have since had a second child who was born vaginally and I had a few complications with her delivery.  She was a lot bigger than her brother (6lb2 to an 8lb10) and when she was born, her shoulders got stuck, they had to break her collar bone to get her out.  She's totally fine now and healed really quickly but it made me very glad I didn't attempt to have my son naturally as goodness knows what could have got stuck!  I also had some severe tearing following her delivery and some bleeding, but again, I healed really quickly.  I'm also a rare case so don't let my story scare you off if you chose a natural delivery.  My obstetrician said he rarely sees a delivery like mine.

I think it's a decision only you can make for yourself and what is best for you and the baby.  It sounds like you have done lots of research and will be going into things very well informed.  For me, both my deliveries were very different but both just as special.  No matter how your baby comes into the world, you will still get that rush of emotion that you just can't replicate.  It is one of the most amazing things in the world.  Good luck with your decision, whatever it is.

#14 liveworkplay

Posted 18 January 2013 - 10:51 PM

QUOTE
I am SO confused. I want what is best firstly for him and then for me. Has anyone experienced this sort of thing with their first baby? I'd very much like your opinions about what a first time mother with a breech baby that won't turn would do! Whether or not he turns now is of no consequence to me since I accept that he'll come whether or not he turns.


Ok, I was in your shoes for my first. I have a very supportive OB who was experienced in breech birth. At the end of the day, never having given birth before, in my mind the risk of not knowing if I could without intervention, made the 1% mortality risk too great. If I had already delivered vaginally, I feel I would have chosen differently. So she was born by elective c/s and it was all quite straight forward with no complications. Recovery was long (in hindsight) but straight forward. I do regret not being able to have her rooming in for the first night, being separated from her for 2 hours post birth  and no skin to skin contact.

I then went on to have two successful VBACS with my other DD's

QUOTE (pheazoid @ 18/01/2013, 12:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My question for you then is regarding breastfeeding and whether or not you tried and were successful and/or still are breastfeeding?

Also, since I'm planning on using cloth nappies - how long was it until you could bend and do washing and hanging things on the line?


I had no problems in BF (just as I had no problems with DD2 and DD3) and bf for well over a year (fed over 2 years with DD2 and DD3) I also used cloth nappies with all three. I was thankful for having help with washing etc for the first few weeks as I was quite sore and also exhausted, so much more so then with my VBACS. However, we paid for a nappy service for the first month with DD1 so that helped a lot.

At the end of the day you need to work out what is an acceptable risk for you. I will say if you are going to try a vag birth, make sure your OB is experienced in breech birth and also that your birthing hospital is able to cope with any emergency should it arise. Around the time I made my decision there was a death at the RWH in Melbourne of the baby during a breech vag delivery that was, after an inquiry, blamed on the doctor not following correct procedure.

#15 asignatureofthings

Posted 18 January 2013 - 11:07 PM

Look up a Facebook group 'Breech Birth Australia & New Zealand. There are some very lovely supportive ladies in there that can help with any questions. Also www.breechbirth.net.au

I had my youngest via breech vaginal (after a previous c/s, & 2 vaginal births), and I had to push so hard to get it too. Especially being a breech VBAC.

My 3rd child was breech also, and I had her via c/s as I was scared into one. The drs were not supportive, nor was I as researched as I was with my 4th. We chose the c/s as we were worried about the risks (but after doing a lot of research while pregnant with #4, I found them to be equally as risky as a c/s), at the time it was the best choice, but I still regret going through with it.

My breech birth, I would do a million times over. I found it to be no different to my cephalic deliveries, and it ended up being a very quick & easy delivery (with no tearing).

Anyway, my advice is to continue on all your research, and if you are determined to have a VBB, then go for it. But do ensure you have a supportive and experienced OB (these are few & far between these days unfortunately). I'm thankful to have had the OB I did, although she wasn't keen on a VBB, she was experienced, and slightly supportive.

If you do decide to go down the c/s route, remember it doesn't mean you failed etc, you have to chose the best decision for you & your baby. One that you're happy with.  

Good luck with whatever you decide.

ETA, my birth story is in my sig if you'd like to read it original.gif

Edited by PippityRoo, 18 January 2013 - 11:09 PM.


#16 VJs Mummy

Posted 20 January 2013 - 07:27 AM

Can i suggest which u may have already tried as well is crawling/walking on all fours, 2 of my friends have had breech births one was bum first and i think if i remember correctly was feet first will re ask, but being ur first i would still try everything to turn him/her,
I wish u luck with whatever ur decision

#17 c_shell

Posted 20 February 2013 - 06:19 AM

Hi. I understand the hard decision you are trying to make.
I was in the same position 2 yrs ago and being a researcher tried to review all the literature i could get my hands on. As you noticed its hard to be conclusive. In norway and sweden, where dd was born, vaginal breech birth is encouraged by the public medical system, based on their conclusions from their own reviews of the literature. They review results and would change this policy if outcomes were statistically significantly worse. In sweden, only those who have had a normal v-birth already are encouraged to deliver a breech. I was therefore offered a c sect, but based on my research was prepared to fight for a v-birth given that both midwives and obs are experienced with v births. This is important so they know when to intervene. In the end i didnt fight because dd was small for gest age and was only 2.5kg at full term. According To the studies i read this was the low end of weight range suggested for breech birth and we were also worried something else may Be wrong. Dd was born very healthily by c-sect, i walked same night and was feeling fine after 4 days. Bf went fine,except that she was a bit weak because of her small size. Have been washing cloth nappies since then! Only problem i found was that i felt like i shouldnt be lifting pram out of car!
Its a very hard decision To make so i would make it only with a doctor who has experience of breech births. I still feel like i missed out on a part of womenhood without my vag birth and am just crossing my fingers i can with #2!
Best of luck to you whichever way you choose! Either way your baby will be beautiful!

#18 DEVOCEAN

Posted 20 February 2013 - 07:05 AM

My DD was an incomplete breech. She had one foot up in front of her face and the other down below her bottom. So DH and I decided to go with a planned CS rather than hope nothing happened to her on the way out.



#19 BabyK32B

Posted 03 April 2013 - 12:07 PM

Hi Op,

I'm not meant to be in here but saw your post.

My DS1 was frank breech too. I was also pushed into a ceasar. I had 2 failed ECVs, failied chiropractic, failed moxi, failed spinning babies...I tried everything!!!!
Being my first baby, I had planned a water birth and the whole shebang.
Once the decision was made that I would have the ceasar, the only thing I really wanted to control was that he came when he was ready. I really wanted to labour naturally and know he was ready.
Luckily for me at 38 weeks I went into labour, and by the time I wen to hospital and into theatre I was already 5cm.
The midwives said this is beneficial for me later down the track (which will hopefully allow me to have a VBAC this time).
While my c section was a fairly positive experience, recovery was slow and I felt I didn't bond very well with DS.
I was lucky to have my DH home for 3 weeks which helped immensley.

If you do want a VB, I have a friend who recently had one successfully. Pm me if you are interested and I can put you in touch with her and her birth story and video.

All the best x

#20 merleauponty

Posted 03 April 2013 - 01:19 PM

My daughter (now 4 months) was breech. The hospital I was at did not offer breech VB as an option. Nor did I attempt to pursue it, due to the mortality / morbidity risk for breech VB (particularly given it was my first birth). I was very disappointed about the scheduled CS for some time leading up to it and did moxibustion, acupuncture and spinning baby techniques to encourage bub to turn.

The CS was a very good experience in the end. Baby was healthy - no lung problems or anything else. Breastfeeding was unaffected except I believe it may have taken longer for my milk to come in. This didn't cause issues - bub had my colostrum, there was no need to supplement. No problems with bonding, she was placed on my chest when I was being stitched up - wrapped as the theatre is cold. We then went together with my husband to recovery. It was lovely and quite relaxed!

My recovery was fine and I was up and about as soon as I got home from hospital - going for long walks with bub and doing housework. That may have been a mistake: I became a little sore again at around 6 weeks and then around 3 months; and I'm not sure I've seen the back of it. I somewhat belatedly refuse to do heavy lifting, any task that requires it is left to the weekend and my husband. So if you go for the CS I would recommend taking it easier than I did. Just because you can do things doesn't mean you should!

#21 PatG

Posted 03 April 2013 - 01:39 PM

I think the decision has been made as the OP was due back in late Jan.....

#22 BabyK32B

Posted 03 April 2013 - 05:44 PM

Good point! Wonder why it popped up!


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