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hitting in the playground
not happy with school's response


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#1 Mamaidh

Posted 28 February 2013 - 12:56 PM

My 9 year old was firstly grabbed by the wrists and yanked twice, then hit by another child yesterday.  She went to the teacher on duty and was told to go and tell the offender to not do it again.  Am I overreacting in thinking this isn't good enough?  I am all for children sorting things out for themselves, but surely physically hurting another child should be dealt with a bit more seriously?  Kids get in more trouble than that for things like talking in class or forgetting their homework.  Our school has 5 rules - #1 Keep your hands and feet to yourself.

Would like to hear other's opinions please

Edited by Mamaidh, 28 February 2013 - 01:09 PM.


#2 Jersey Caramel

Posted 28 February 2013 - 01:09 PM

At my son's school, any form of violence (one incident) goes straight to level 2 discipline which means reporting to the Stage Supervisor for 3 days and needs to demonstrate improved behavior, made to revise the school rules and consequences, and miss out on excursions and any non-essential activities during the 3 days. They're also taken out of the playground at lunch time for 3 days.

Obviously, I'd expect the playground teacher to get to the bottom of the story before implementing this (eg. was it actually a play wrestle/game that got out of hand rather than anything malicious) but I'm happy with the no-tolerance policy towards physical abuse at our school.

(ETA: I know from speaking to other parents that the Supervisor actually spends a lot of time with the child being 'disciplined' to actually get to the bottom of their issues, find techniques that will help them, build a relationship and rapport with them. I realised after I typed that it all sounds very punitive, but it is done in a positive way and all about remediation).

Edited by Jersey Caramel, 28 February 2013 - 01:11 PM.


#3 justthegirls

Posted 28 February 2013 - 01:17 PM

What would you like to have happened?  I think that at age 9, kids should be able to try and work things out for themselves before involving the teacher (unless of course we're talking something more serious).  Whilst violence isn't something to be taken lightly, what happened to just going and playing somewhere else?

#4 Mamaidh

Posted 28 February 2013 - 01:24 PM

Personally, I think that
QUOTE
just going and playing somewhere else
is taking violence lightly!  I believe that my children have a right to be safe in at school, and to me, this action has given the other child the message that it was ok to do that.  I think that at a minimum, the teacher should have spoken to her and sent her to sit out for 10 minutes.  Had it just been teasing, not including in a game, things like that, absolutely I am all for the children sorting it out for themselves (providing it is not in the form of on going bullying or more serious than just your average primary school tiff)

#5 justthegirls

Posted 28 February 2013 - 01:32 PM

Yes they have a right to be safe, but at age 9, they're grade 3 or 4, and your daughter should be old enough to say to the other child to stop that.  If it continued beyond that, then by all means get the teacher involved, but running to the teacher straight up just seems like kids aren't being given the skills to try and deal with these issues themselves.  Kids are kids, and they sometimes get a bit rough through play.

#6 Mamaidh

Posted 28 February 2013 - 01:39 PM

Fair point justthegirls.  This was straight out vendictive "I hate you" followed by the physical attack so not just play turning a bit rough, but the teacher didn't ask any questions.

#7 Mummy Em

Posted 28 February 2013 - 01:43 PM

I'd expect more. You'd never tell an adult who had been hit by another adult to just move away or tell the other child not to do it again - very dismissive.

OP what is the school's policy on these types of incidents?

#8 Copacetic

Posted 28 February 2013 - 01:50 PM

Yes, you should expect more, but did you ask your daughter WHY this happened?

My 9 year old is a hitter, and went to mainstream school for a while, and yeah, a couple of kids got hit.  Here's what I know:  kids who hit NEVER hit for zero reason.  It may not seem like a good reason, but there's always a reason.

#9 Mamaidh

Posted 28 February 2013 - 01:52 PM

QUOTE
what is the school's policy on these types of incidents?


I thought that it was a 'red card' for incidents in the playground, which means trip to the office and note sent home to parents.  I don't know if that is a straight out 'if you break rule #1' or just for the more extreme cases.  However, we got a new principal last year and things have changed a bit, so not entirely sure now.

#10 DEVOCEAN

Posted 28 February 2013 - 01:57 PM

QUOTE (justthegirls @ 28/02/2013, 02:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What would you like to have happened?  I think that at age 9, kids should be able to try and work things out for themselves before involving the teacher (unless of course we're talking something more serious).  Whilst violence isn't something to be taken lightly, what happened to just going and playing somewhere else?

Yeah, let them sort it out and then check the damage later in the sick bay.
Or let the little aggressor continue on their merry way to terrorising other children, instead of nipping it in the bud.

#11 Mamaidh

Posted 28 February 2013 - 01:58 PM

Copacetic, yes that was the first thing I asked!  There was a reason, my daughter lost hold of the hula hoop she was playing with and it rolled over and hit the other child so she retaliated by grabbing her arms, yanking them, telling her she hated her, then hitting her.  Not sure whether my daughter related this to the teacher or if she just said she had been hit.

#12 DEVOCEAN

Posted 28 February 2013 - 02:00 PM

QUOTE (Copacetic @ 28/02/2013, 02:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
kids who hit NEVER hit for zero reason.  It may not seem like a good reason, but there's always a reason.

I hate her hair. He looked at me. She said my name. He wanted to play in our area.
There are also kids who just hit for the sake of hitting.

#13 TopsyTurvy

Posted 28 February 2013 - 02:04 PM

I think the teacher should have at least talked to the other child involved.  The response was very dismissive IMO.  This is how bullying starts and should be treated as such.

#14 Tigerdog

Posted 28 February 2013 - 02:05 PM

QUOTE
at age 9, they're grade 3 or 4, and your daughter should be old enough to say to the other child to stop that.


Sorry, but not OK.  I've worked in both youth and adult refuges and it doesn't matter what age, any form of violence isn't tolerated and means you're out on your ear (not saying this is what should automatically happen in a school environment, just an example of how any person or institution who has any awareness of the nature of violence in general would only ever advocate for a no-tolerance policy).  

As a PP said, every time it happens a strong message should be sent that it isn't acceptable.  Violence isn't something that should ever be let slide, that's how it becomes so insidious and perpetuates.

Edited by Tigerdog, 28 February 2013 - 02:08 PM.


#15 Escapin

Posted 28 February 2013 - 02:07 PM

The thing is though, it just doesn't matter what the reason is. Hitting is NEVER OK. If we can't make that clear to 9yo kids (even if they don't always get it) what hope do we have.

As far as I'm concerned, one slap/hit/whatever and the kid should be straight into age-appropriate discipline. 'Sort it out yourselves' is crap. If the OP's daughter could sort it out herself, she wouldn't have gone to the teather. The 'sort it out yourself thing' continues right through to workplace bullying and it makes me VERY MAD.

ETA: Snap PP original.gif

Edited by Escapin, 28 February 2013 - 02:07 PM.


#16 Mamaidh

Posted 28 February 2013 - 02:10 PM

That is the thing, this child has a history of being mean to mine verbally but now it seems to have escalated to physical.  It needs to get nipped in the bud, but even without a history being there, I really believe that physical violence needs to be dealt with seriously.  This wasn't rough play, it was straight out vindictive.

ETA my daughter initially went to another area of the playground where some other friends were playing, and they took her to the teacher.

Edited by Mamaidh, 28 February 2013 - 02:12 PM.


#17 Escapin

Posted 28 February 2013 - 02:52 PM

QUOTE (stopwhiningatme @ 28/02/2013, 03:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'd be happy to let my daughter sort it out herself.  Not if the incident was super aggressive, or if there was a pattern of behaviour from this child, but for one incident?  Sure.  

I also think using terms like 'violence' and talking about experiences in youth refuges is way over the top in a thread about what is normal, albeit undesirable behaviour from a primary aged child.


But it's NOT normal to still be hitting other kids when you are 9 years old! And exactly how do you think the OP's daughter should have dealt with it? Hit the other kid back? Called her names? What would you suggest exactly?

And so equivalently, at work, if I don't like what someone says and I give them a little slap? That's OK? They should just 'work it out' with me and not go to their manager? GRRRRRR

Edited by Escapin, 28 February 2013 - 02:53 PM.


#18 Tigerdog

Posted 28 February 2013 - 03:10 PM

QUOTE
I also think using terms like 'violence' and talking about experiences in youth refuges is way over the top in a thread about what is normal, albeit undesirable behaviour from a primary aged child.


Hello, this is how a pattern starts and escalates into adulthood?  Not as far-fetched as you may think.  Yes, the behaviour may be relatively normal but the response can mean all the difference and IMO, the response given here with the OP was woefully inadequate.  Even a talking-to from the teacher would have been better than just expecting the child to sort it out themselves.  Bullies and perpetrators of domestic and other forms of violence thrive on this type of indifferent response as it enables them continue to perpetrate their behaviour!

Edited by Tigerdog, 28 February 2013 - 03:11 PM.


#19 Mamaidh

Posted 28 February 2013 - 03:42 PM

Have spoken to the teacher this afternoon and it turns out that it was a relief teacher (there are quite a few new staff this year and my daughter thought it was one of them).  She is due back next week and the class teacher will talk to her then.  She also discussed what happened with my daughter.  Happy for now that class teacher feels it needs to be followed through, and that it doesn't appear to be the usual way to deal with it at the school.  Thanks for your opinions - I was able to clarify in my mind my thoughts on the matter (ie. physically harming another child is not ok and the child needs to learn that from the earliest age, and it needs to be continually reinforced).

#20 Copacetic

Posted 28 February 2013 - 03:53 PM

QUOTE
I hate her hair. He looked at me. She said my name. He wanted to play in our area.
There are also kids who just hit for the sake of hitting.


Or how about "I'm autistic and about 90% of the children in my school use it against me".

I"m not saying hitting is right.  What I'm saying is that sometimes - without actually doing it - I wanted to high 5 him for doing it.

#21 PaigeP

Posted 28 February 2013 - 04:41 PM

Our school expects children from grade 4 and up to deal with school yard incidents and bullying themselves initially. If it escalates despite requesting it to stop then they are welcome to speak to a teacher and it will go from there. But the first thing the teachers will do is ask how they have attempted to stop it first. The kids are well educated in this so understand how to deal with it.  I prefer their method because the kids are empowered to deal with bullies themselves and learn some vital life skills which I worry are lacking sometimes these days in people.
I think the teacher was probably thinking that at 9yo kids should be able to deal with it themselves - initially.

#22 Expelliarmus

Posted 28 February 2013 - 06:51 PM

The teacher should have assisted the students to negotiate a solution. Simple.

Not told the child to go off and sort it out alone without adult support.

#23 DEVOCEAN

Posted 28 February 2013 - 06:56 PM

QUOTE (Copacetic @ 28/02/2013, 04:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Or how about "I'm autistic and about 90% of the children in my school use it against me".

I"m not saying hitting is right.  What I'm saying is that sometimes - without actually doing it - I wanted to high 5 him for doing it.

I can understand that.
I have felt that way a few times.



#24 Expelliarmus

Posted 28 February 2013 - 07:11 PM

If the child has sought teacher assistance it's a good chance that for whatever reason they are unable to solve if themselves.

It makes no sense for the teacher to expect them to resolve it alone without providing support.

Edited by howdo, 28 February 2013 - 07:13 PM.


#25 Escapin

Posted 28 February 2013 - 07:28 PM

QUOTE (howdo @ 28/02/2013, 08:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If the child has sought teacher assistance it's a good chance that for whatever reason they are unable to solve if themselves.

It makes no sense for the teacher to expect them to resolve it alone without providing support.


yup.




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