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Manipulative 8 YO
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#1 wizzbef

Posted 16 July 2013 - 11:13 AM

I'm at my wits end!

I knew this was going to happen. First day of term 3 any my 8 yo says he is sick, get the thermometer, I don't understand. He dosen't go to school. I have a melt down and drive off. (DH was still home with the 3yo and 12YO).

I personally have struggled with this child since the day he was born. I put him into Family Day Care one day a week since he was 2 just to give myself a break.
He was born very quickly after an induced labour and to me, has seemed very manipulative since then. He never slept, we tried controlled crying but he would just vomit all over himself and his bedding.
He dosen't eat properly. He never has and gagged since his very first mouthful of solids. He was not BF. He lives on milo and milk, saladas, salami and dried noodles.  
He does very well at school and in most subjects is "above average". We bought his a fox terrier for Christmas as we felt he needed someone to talk to who wouldn't judge him IYKWIM and one day before school in Feb, the puppy got out , just after son had ridden off to school, and ran straight under the wheels of an oncoming car.

Since then DS has never ridden his bike, refused to go to school - though we drag him and once in the class room is once again the perfect student. I have tried bribery with some success unsure.gif

My DH's mother has spoiled these kids and it erks me no end. Hence to say that he is always running to Nans, who lives just around the corner. She promises him another toy if he goes to school.

This child is only 8 and is forever trying to test me.  eg. I say no tV, so he runs around the house turning each tv on as I turn the other off.

I know i have rambled incoherently but i just had to get it off my chest

Edited by lucky 2, 16 July 2013 - 11:40 AM.


#2 kerrie23

Posted 16 July 2013 - 11:19 AM

This is your own child you are talking about?  I could feel waves of resentment coming off the page as I read.  Do you think he can pick up on it?  

I have an 8 year old son, he struggles with changes to routine, he has a very narrow diet and when I say narrow it is pretty shocking, he is a real homebody, he does not enjoy the idea of going to school but likes it when he is there.  My son has aspergers and regularly sees a psychologist under a mental health plan drawn up by our GP.  Perhaps a trip to the GP to make sure that your son does not need a referral to a psych?  It sounds like he is suffering some PTSD since his dog was killed - hence the association with riding his bike and going to school.

'This child', 'these kids'  I really did find your language in your OP to be hostile, especially in describing your child as manipulative.  Some of the issues you have flagged really could indicate your son has physical or mental health issues that should be addressed.

Edited by kerrie23, 16 July 2013 - 11:23 AM.


#3 Ianthe

Posted 16 July 2013 - 11:20 AM

There may be some issues with your son that need addressing but IMO your first step should be to go to counselling yourself. Describing a newborn as manipulative and that in eight years that is the way you still see him is concerning.



#4 Justaduck

Posted 16 July 2013 - 11:26 AM

QUOTE (Ianthe @ 16/07/2013, 11:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There may be some issues with your son that need addressing but IMO your first step should be to go to counselling yourself. Describing a newborn as manipulative and that in eight years that is the way you still see him is concerning.


Yes I totally agree.

I do think your son needs someone to talk too as well as it sounds like he is struggling to deal with the grief of the loss of his pet, especially in such a traumatic way.

#5 EsmeLennox

Posted 16 July 2013 - 11:26 AM

I don't think your child is manipulating you, I would say there are some underlying issues for the way he behaves. Please seek help for him and yourself. Get some counselling and get your child booked into a developmental paediatrician.

#6 jules095

Posted 16 July 2013 - 11:27 AM

How can an 8yr old be manipulative? He must have learnt it from somewhere.

You say he's been this way since the day he was born & you put him on FDC to have a break from him.

Maybe he feels unloved & this is the only way he can get your attention.

#7 wizzbef

Posted 16 July 2013 - 11:28 AM

Yes Kerrie, this is my own son and there is resentement which is neither fair or normal. He has had a mental health plan set up and sees a counsellor / social worker on a weekly basis. Dh and I have also spoken to her on our own. I have seeked support through my GP in the past. I know he has no trust in me since I was the one in charge when his puppy was killed.
I just get fed up when he just stands there with the phone and 000 typed in, nagging me to dare him to ring it.
I'm at the stage now where I know it is all me to blame and I'm now ready to walk away from my family.
As I type away through the tears, I am already full of regret posting this


#8 jules095

Posted 16 July 2013 - 11:30 AM

Maybe it's not just your son who needs counselling. Maybe You need it to (for other reasons).

Edited by jules095, 16 July 2013 - 11:30 AM.


#9 lucky 2

Posted 16 July 2013 - 11:30 AM

Hi there, I've have an 8 yo too and when I saw the thread title I thought "8yo, manipulative, yes of course they are, it's normal isn't it".
I think it sounds like he is suffering from the death of his dog.
How about going to talk to the GP about how you feel and your concerns about him? It might be time to get an outsider to help you understand your child a bit more and help you parent him in a way that brings you closer together. In the end that's what will help the most, bringing children closer to their parents.
All the best.

eta, oh sorry OP, you are in a crisis, I'm sorry you feeling so at the end of your tether.
Is there someone you can ring to talk to now? It is never "all your fault". There will be contributing factors but never "all you". It sounds like a complicated situation and you feel so guilty.
Please don't thnk it is all you, I have had a family member in a very similar situation who also was put at the centre of the blame (by herself and others) but it wasn't the case. She has come to realise that some things are beyond her control.
I'm glad you are getting some extra help, I hope you can find someone to talk to today, just for you.

#10 Chief Pancake Make

Posted 16 July 2013 - 11:30 AM

Hi OP,  

I feel for you you sound like you are at your wits end.   I hope you feel better having got it off your chest.  

I think it may have been badly worded - perhaps challenging or strong willed might have been better words to use an I think people are going to jump on you for calling a newborn manipulative - please dont take it personally and just read the posts that are supportive.

Other poseters - be nice!!!! She came here for help.






#11 EsmeLennox

Posted 16 July 2013 - 11:31 AM

It is not all you to blame... But you do need help. If your son already has a mental health plan in place is there a clear diagnosis of the issue? Do you need to look further for help for him? Please get some help for you, you sound like you really need it.

#12 boatiebabe

Posted 16 July 2013 - 11:31 AM

I think you and your son both need some help and support.

I also felt a lot of anger and hostility from your post. I think you can turn things around but it will take effort and a genuine desire to want things to be better.

Unfortunately your situation is complicated somewhat by your MIL who is not helping the situation - sounds like she is co-parenting?

Can you talk to your doctor about what's going on and get a referal to someone who can help.

Honestly it sounds like a mess at the moment and you need to do something now before it gets worse.

#13 flowermama

Posted 16 July 2013 - 11:32 AM

I think it's obvious the OP is really struggling and instead of being judged harshly and condemned for her feelings maybe she could use a bit of support. OP, I really hope you can find someone who can help you and your family manage - can you get more regular counselling?

#14 ZombieMum

Posted 16 July 2013 - 11:33 AM

He might not be manipulative. He might just be reacting to an environment that he can't cope with. (not saying his home environment is bad, just that there are some 'normal' things that some kids can't cope with, but most other kids aren't affected and adjustments might need to be made to cater for his needs.)

QUOTE (wizzbef @ 16/07/2013, 11:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
He dosen't eat properly. He never has and gagged since his very first mouthful of solids. He was not BF. He lives on milo and milk, saladas, salami and dried noodles.  .

He sounds like he has a few issues that need professional help.

Has he seen a developmental paediatrician?

Has he had medical conditions ruled out?

Could he have Aspergers?

Could he have sensory issues - hence the gagging and eating issues. The sensory might be texture related, hence the gagging. His diet sounds similar to some kids with an Autism Spectrum Disorder.

Could he have trouble with changes, transitions and no routines?

He might not cope too well with transition from home to school. At the start of the school day he might find it a sensory overload - with noisy kids everywhere.

He might need routine, hence why he seems to cope ok when at school.

Maybe he gets carsick on the way to school? This happened to one of my kids.

Maybe he has anxiety. If he has a restricted diet, then he could be low in certain vitamins and minerals, which can make anxiety so much worse.

#15 kerrie23

Posted 16 July 2013 - 11:35 AM

I don't think that people are not being supportive.  I felt for the OP's son when I read the OP, where is the support for the child?  It is very clear that both the OP and her son need some help but the OP has to advocate on behalf of her child as well as herself otherwise things are not going to change.  Right now it is clear there are some drawn battle lines between a grown woman her 8 year old child and that rift is only going to get worse the more time that passes.



#16 kpingitquiet

Posted 16 July 2013 - 11:40 AM

QUOTE (wizzbef @ 16/07/2013, 10:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes Kerrie, this is my own son and there is resentement which is neither fair or normal. He has had a mental health plan set up and sees a counsellor / social worker on a weekly basis. Dh and I have also spoken to her on our own. I have seeked support through my GP in the past. I know he has no trust in me since I was the one in charge when his puppy was killed.

Aside from any issues your son may have, is it possible you suffer from attachment/bond issues? I ask because you describe his manipulative behavior all the way back to his birth. I don't know how far you went with your GP, ie getting a prescription only or getting your own counseling/mental health plan, but maybe it's worth investigating.

#17 mum2twogirls

Posted 16 July 2013 - 11:42 AM

I'm sorry to hear of your struggles.  

Do not regret posting as we all need to get " things off our chest".

I am having a lot of trouble with my 10 y.o daughter & agree that once I got the " right" specialists involved who actually listened, we are now starting to turn a corner.

Lots of 1:1 time together helped so she could open up & i could see the real person rather then the "manipulative" daughter I thought she was once as well.


Life is very hard when you live with daily struggles - plenty of times I felt
Like walking away as well

hhugs.gif

#18 charmalee

Posted 16 July 2013 - 11:46 AM

I feel for you OP as I have a daughter who acts in similar ways to your Son, especially in regard to going to School. I wish I had some advice to offer but I struggle on a daily basis myself. I was coming into this thread to see if I could pick up some practical advice. Please dont give up on your family or think you are totally to blame for your sons behaviours. We all try to do the best we can with what we've got and sometimes it feels like it's not enough  sad.gif

#19 wizzbef

Posted 16 July 2013 - 11:48 AM

Yes, I am a grown woman, but only human. I tell my son I love him, more than he could ever imagine. I hug him..he stands rigid. I had a blanket made up for him to keep him safe and secure at night, so as no harm will come of him or his family, with words from God and a photo of him and his beloved puppy. He will not sleep in a room by himself. He can't even stay in a room by himself. He will not sleep at another childs house.
So yes I am a grown woman but to the sounds of it completely uneducated . I once had him to a kiniesiologist (sp?) who told me it was because he was immunised that he is the way he is

#20 EsmeLennox

Posted 16 July 2013 - 11:51 AM

What do his mental health care people say? Your descriptions of his behaviours raise about a gazillion red flags. Is there a clear diagnosis in place? If there is not I would absolutely be seeing another specialist, and even if there is whatever they are doing is not working very effectively, so maybe it's time to seek further help. Your boy needs help, and so do you.

#21 lukum

Posted 16 July 2013 - 11:59 AM

Have you ever suspected he might have issues rather than being manipulative? Kids can dislike school for a number of reasons. Could it be anxiety? You could have him properly assessed and work from there. If it turns out he is a child with special needs there will be therapies available to help him and you.


#22 DEVOCEAN

Posted 16 July 2013 - 11:59 AM

QUOTE (wizzbef @ 16/07/2013, 11:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes Kerrie, this is my own son and there is resentement which is neither fair or normal. He has had a mental health plan set up and sees a counsellor / social worker on a weekly basis. Dh and I have also spoken to her on our own. I have seeked support through my GP in the past. I know he has no trust in me since I was the one in charge when his puppy was killed.
I just get fed up when he just stands there with the phone and 000 typed in, nagging me to dare him to ring it.
I'm at the stage now where I know it is all me to blame and I'm now ready to walk away from my family.
As I type away through the tears, I am already full of regret posting this

Don't regret posting. Even just getting problems out helps a little, and little steps are still steps.

QUOTE (wizzbef @ 16/07/2013, 11:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes, I am a grown woman, but only human. I tell my son I love him, more than he could ever imagine. I hug him..he stands rigid. I had a blanket made up for him to keep him safe and secure at night, so as no harm will come of him or his family, with words from God and a photo of him and his beloved puppy. He will not sleep in a room by himself. He can't even stay in a room by himself. He will not sleep at another childs house.
So yes I am a grown woman but to the sounds of it completely uneducated . I once had him to a kiniesiologist (sp?) who told me it was because he was immunised that he is the way he is

My DS#2 was similar and has ASD. I am actually starting to wish we had met our DD's physio a long time ago, because he is absolutely fantastic with looking after a person as a whole being. He makes sure that as he treats the physical ailment, he treats the mind as well. So maybe he could have helped DS.



#23 gab72

Posted 16 July 2013 - 12:05 PM

OP, I don't have any suggestions to help you but you sound like you are at your wits end and are really struggling. I hope you are able to get both your son and yourself the help that's needed to get your relationship back on track, so you can start enjoying and appreciating each other. Good luck.

#24 steppy

Posted 16 July 2013 - 12:20 PM

QUOTE (jules095 @ 16/07/2013, 11:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
How can an 8yr old be manipulative? He must have learnt it from somewhere.

You say he's been this way since the day he was born & you put him on FDC to have a break from him.

Maybe he feels unloved & this is the only way he can get your attention.


I don't understand questions like these - he can be manipulative because he is human and has above average intelligence, and he wants things and he figures out ways to get them that can involve influencing others. Everyone is manipulative, some just more than others.

#25 steppy

Posted 16 July 2013 - 12:24 PM

What do you mean about him standing there with 000 dialed daring you to ring it? Why don't you just ring it? You haven't done anything wrong.




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