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Family doesn't support birth plan

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#26 Unatheowl

Posted 02 November 2013 - 10:10 AM

View PostKatana Geldar, on 02 November 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

. But as for worried ness, everything seems to be doing fine so far. My HCG was sky high at my bloodiest, so high that the GP said there was no need for a repeat test, there's no bleeding, no serious pain and no medical history in me or my family to worry about.

Oh sure, but it is entirely possible that something so left field pops up and turns a completely innocuous situation into a tragedy.  It happens regularly - jus read some of the stories here on EB.

Sorry if that sounded uber paranoid but they are your family and I know for a fact that when my kids are concerned I have worried myself into a lather over what appeared later to be so unnecessary.  It is human nature to worry about worst case scenario.  Added to his, they are probably annoyed at you for being so apparently blasé about the risks so perhaps they may come across sounding frustrated at you.  Remember also that if they lose you or your baby they will also suffer and they are not in control of the decision, you are, which makes it even more frustrating for them if they think you are making the wrong one, or a dangerous one in their opinion.

Just trying to offer a possible explanation of their point of view.

#27 Fright bat

Posted 02 November 2013 - 10:15 AM

I think it's easy to forget that a) your parents love you and b) your sister has probably seen the worst of complications.

Every decision we make in life is a risk-benefit analysis. I'm sure you can understand that when, as a medical professional, you have heard of mothers or babies die in transfer, your perspective becomes skewed. I'm not saying it's right or correct, or even that midwife led care is dangerous because it absolutely is not for the vast vast vast majority of women. BUT that's not what I chose personally for either birth, not not something I would suggest for any of my own family. Because I've seen the (very few) instances where a woman is transferred in the middle of a major haemorrhage (and crashes and ends up in ICU) or a baby needs to be intubated by a NETS paramedic who arrives after a ten minute downtime.

Your sister may seem like an interfering b**ch to you, but please understand that she is coming from a place of love and paranoia.

I'm not saying doctors are right or that you should even change your decision - but I think it's worth keeping in mind that most of the posters in this thread have no idea why she might be feeling like she is, and why she might have got in your mothers ear. She may not actually give a toss about names or other parenting decisions and her concern in this instance is probably pretty specific.

Personally, I had my babies in a major hospital with an adult and neonatal ICU on site and attached to a public hospital so that paediatricians and anaesthetists were on site in case anything went wrong, and life support facilities were down a corridor and not an ambulance ride away. I don't think it's unusual for doctors to make that sort of decision. And plenty of doctors wives complain that their husbands want that sort of care for them.

It is statistically misplaced paranoia (one woman dies in childbirth a year in Australia out of some hundreds of thousands of deliveries - we know its rare) but we are human and molded by our experiences, however biased they may be.

Please don't shut your sister out for her paranoia - just know that she loves you and is not trying to 'scaremonger' just for the sake of it.

There are also many wonderful lovely obstetricians (like mine) who can give you continuity of care and support you to have an intervention free drug free natural birth - my second was undiagnosed posterior and my wonderful ob talked me through various labour positions and we got him to turn and pop out without her laying a hand on me.

There are two sides to every coin. Your family just want the best for you.

#28 lucky 2

Posted 02 November 2013 - 10:16 AM

I'm sorry this is happening to you, it's so common.
To me it's just further evidence of the medicalisation/take over of birth.
It "should" be getting better but it isn't.
The evidence is there about midwifery care and outcomes.
How annoying for you.
I wouldn't talk to them about it at all, avoid the conversation or at least shut down completely when it starts, ie "I will not be discussing this" and leave if it continues.
I have a dominating sibling as well, disconnection and detachment (emotionally) works best but it's hard to do and I'm still not that good at it.
This truly is "none of their business"., it's great to share but if it's hurting you then stop sharing.
You do need support and not persistent negativity so you can grow a baby in a cocktail of calming hormones, not hyped up anxious ones.
Practice detachment if educating them (or just mum) doesn't work. I'd focus my efforts on mum and not your sister, and if mum doesn't cool it then I'd suggest you tell her she needs to stress out with her other daughter and leave you in calm peace.

#29 Lunafreya

Posted 02 November 2013 - 10:16 AM

I know what you mean, we haven't had our first scan yet so we're still not sure about things. But I can worry myself into a rut sometimes until I go nuts, so I'm trying to be calm about this in a "These things can happen and I'll be ready for them if they do" sort of way.

It annoys me when  she seems to think she has the deal on worrying and complications and forgets that it's not her baby.

When it's her baby, she will have her right to be paranoid and I will let her do so. Until then...

#30 lucky 2

Posted 02 November 2013 - 10:23 AM


I think it's easy to forget that a) your parents love you and b) your sister has probably seen the worst of complications.
I wouldn't doubt the OP is totally aware and not easily forgetting that her parents love her. As for her sister seeing the worst of complications, that may or not be.
I wouldn't doubt that the reason the OP continues to engage in the conversations that are leading to distress is because she is fully aware of this and is trying to accomodate their responses.

But, at some point trying to "understand" the motivations of others needs to be put aside for the greater cause, ie the well being of the individual. In this case, the pregnant woman.
I don't see any reason for the OP to continue to "not forget" how much her parents love her and her sisters medical experience, if it is doing her head in and causing distress.
They need to show their love and experience in other ways and that's for them to realise and enact.

#31 clrw

Posted 02 November 2013 - 10:23 AM

As pepple have said this is only the start of your long parenting journey and your family are going to have their opinions on your choices.

You need to learn now how to handle that. You can't be swayed by all of their opinions, you have to make your own informed decisions that sit well with you. Sometimes they will align with family. Sometimes they will not.

#32 Unatheowl

Posted 02 November 2013 - 10:33 AM

View PostAvadaKedavra, on 02 November 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

Personally, I had my babies in a major hospital with an adult and neonatal ICU on site and attached to a public hospital so that paediatricians and anaesthetists were on site in case anything went wrong, and life support facilities were down a corridor and not an ambulance ride away. I don't think it's unusual for doctors to make that sort of decision. And plenty of doctors wives complain that their husbands want that sort of care for them.

I did to and I would never have dreamt of being too far away for critical care support for either myself or my baby.  Of course the risk is exceptionally low, but it does happen and I do not consider myself somehow immune.

I know as a vet, some of the most hairy surgical situations I have experienced have begun with routine procedures on healthy animals that took a turn.  I agree with AK's post in that if you have experience with some of these situations, you realise how easily they can go bad.  Is it skewed thinking?  Absolutely,  but personally I don't accept even that tiny risk  which can be so easily lessened, as the consequences are so great.

Like you said though OP, at the end of the day it is not your sisters baby, it is yours and it is your decision.

#33 red_squirrel

Posted 02 November 2013 - 10:40 AM

I agree that birthing is not a medical procedure.
However in the event that something goes seriously wrong, you will not have time to get from Ryde to RNSH and have a positive outcome.
That is what she is concerned about.
Don't get annoyed at her, she is speaking out of concern.

#34 neddyteddy

Posted 02 November 2013 - 11:03 AM

tell them you are gong to free birth… then when you change your mind to go to the BC they will be stoked! :)

#35 Fright bat

Posted 02 November 2013 - 11:25 AM

Lets not forget that birth got 'medicalised' for a reason.

The WHO says 15% of births require surgical intervention to save maternal or fetal life.

#36 Luci

Posted 02 November 2013 - 11:29 AM

OP it sounds as though you are very close to your Mum and Sister, and are used to sharing and discussing things with them. This can be great, although it can sometimes mean they can get over-involved (as you have discovered).  

I have heard lots of positive feedback over the years about the midwifery program at Ryde, and I know that a lot of women love it. However birth is of course a very personal thing, there are different models of care to choose from, and it is a style of care which would not appeal to everyone.

If it was me I would just say something like "I know you have concerns but DH and I have given it a lot of thought and we have made a final decision".    If they raise it again, just repeat "it is a decision for DH and I to make, and we have made up our minds".

Good luck,

#37 Jaimee86

Posted 02 November 2013 - 11:33 AM

Hey Katana, I'm not a midwife but last year worked in a small rural hospital with no doctor on site. The closest hospital with a NICU and Ob was 45 minutes away if driving the speed limit.

While working there I saw quite a few births as the midwives knew I was interested in seeing as many as I could. During this time we did have women haemorrhage however the midwives are highly trained and they also ensured that we the nurses were also trained and knew where all the equipment was in case of this. None of these women died, all were treated appropriately and transferred off site if necessary.

I understand why your sister is stressing, I find myself stressing more I think because I'm more aware of every problem that could happen. That being said I'll also be going with a midwife program at my local hospital.

I thought I'd bring this up because everyone will have horror stories but the important thing is that you do what is right for you and your baby and try not to stress. It's hard when people aren't supporting your choices especially family, I hope that you aren't too stressed by all this.

And to some people who may jump down my throat I understand bad things can happen but that is why you are required to train constantly for the worst to ensure you are prepared as you can never mitigate all the risk.

#38 Future-self

Posted 02 November 2013 - 11:48 AM


  She may not actually give a toss about names or other parenting decisions and her concern in this instance is probably pretty specific.  
I agree. I think PPs advice of dismissing her concerns as her just being an interfering bully is terribly misguided and is throwing the baby out with the bathwater so to speak :) I'm a pretty strong willed person OP and one thing I've learned in the last year is that simply stomping my foot saying "It's MY baby so MY choice and I'm not going to listen to YOU" is ridiculous.


Personally, I had my babies in a major hospital with an adult and neonatal ICU on site and attached to a public hospital so that paediatricians and anaesthetists were on site in case anything went wrong, and life support facilities were down a corridor and not an ambulance ride away.  
As did I after much study of my options and I admit right now OP, I would badger my sisters to make the same choice.

I would however be willing to agree that Midwife led care in a birth centre is exemplary and was a great choice ONLY if the birth centre was attached to a large tertiary care facility with all of the above down the corridor. Your situation of there not even being a Dr on site and transfer by ambulance needed in case of emergency scares the crap out of me and I would be doing exactly what your sister is doing. Sorry OP, I support her right to share her knowledge with you and want better risk mitigation for you and your baby

#39 red_squirrel

Posted 02 November 2013 - 12:00 PM

And to also add the admissions process at RNSH is not the smoothest of processes at the best of times. They don't have the best reputation in that area. Once you're in you are fine, but getting admitted is another story.

Edited by red_squirrel, 02 November 2013 - 12:02 PM.

#40 BellO'Nromze

Posted 02 November 2013 - 12:04 PM

If you are being transferred to RNSH during labour with a flat ctg trace, the admissions process at RNSH gets much more rapid!

#41 yellowtulips74

Posted 02 November 2013 - 12:38 PM

OP you mentioned your sister did this before your wedding too... what trouble did she cause then?  Seems like it could be more than just well-meaning sisterly stuff.

After DD1's private hospital birth (expensive and really not good), DD2 was born in a birth centre.  What a wonderful experience!  The midwives were all wonderful, and I had complete trust in their ability to handle any situation which came up.  It was attached to a very large public hospital.  My sister's MIL (a GP) made disapproving noises about giving birth in a public hospital surrounded by drug addicts.  WTF?

If I had my time again I would have had DD1 at a birth centre too.

#42 Katsamum

Posted 02 November 2013 - 05:55 PM

I went with a birth centre and loved it. The midwives are incredibly well trained and I loved having a midwife that I knew well and who knew me. The care was great and ill do it again next time if possible.
But, they didn't diagnose my 5kg baby and I needed an emergency csection. I was lucky that I was in a birth centre attached to a hospital.
It's not just maternal or infant death that's the risk. Those numbers are relatively low. It's also risks of seriously complications for baby that result in brain injury.
I'm not saying to change your decision, but given it seems that a doctor or hospital transfer might take some time, it might be worth looking into your options and the risks a little more. Over time I've really changed my mind if lots of similar things as I've read more information.

So I would hear your sister out, give her a change to expliN. Listen to what she says. Do more research. Then reconsider your decision - you may of course come to the same conclusion. I would just be careful of only looking at the info that supports your conclusion - cognitive bias is something that we all suffer from, even very intelligent people. So I would look up the complications and do some research from the point of view against your decision.

Then after that if you come to the same conclusion you can thanks your sister for her advice and concern and let her know that you have come to the decision with all the necessary information and weighed up all the risks and benefits.

Congratulations on your pregnancy.

#43 scarfie

Posted 02 November 2013 - 05:55 PM

View PostKatana Geldar, on 02 November 2013 - 09:16 AM, said:

I sent her a link to the Mums at Ryde page, she sent this back to me. I'm fuming.

I sent back a message saying to respect our decision, I'm not sure that'll work and I'm expecting an angry phone call, but she's lost her right to know things now. From now on, everything is going to be "just fine" with no details.

It really annoys me she got in mums ear, she did this when DH and I were getting married.

Thank for your support ladies.

Ryde Midwifery Group Practice has been in operation for over 8 years.  If it were really that dangerous not having a doctor there then I doubt that it would still be open.  Do your sister and mother think that you will be the first woman to have a bleed and the midwives won't know what to do with you?  Stick to your guns.  This is your pregnancy, labour and birth and if you have the support of your partner then it is your decision to make.

Book in there and if you decide that it isn't your cup of tea after all then you can be transferred to RNSH.

#44 Ashtonsmum

Posted 02 November 2013 - 06:04 PM

Do what YOU want to do..

You dont have to justify yourself to others.

#45 DyingofLove

Posted 02 November 2013 - 06:06 PM

I just wanted to say that I birthed my DS at Ryde and I would highly recommend it. I will be going back there for #2. All the midwives are highly trained and lovely people who look after you well. This is your choice so don't be bullied by your family.

#46 07gbam

Posted 02 November 2013 - 06:15 PM

I have been in a similar situation from the reverse angle.

Your sister cares about you and your baby.
Disagreements happen all the time in families. But it's how we work through them together that makes all the difference. Agree to disagree and that way you can stay close and enjoy the excitement of the pregnancy together.

#47 R2B2

Posted 02 November 2013 - 06:20 PM

i've had 3 babies under Rydes care, and let me tell you, you will be in the best hands :)

tell your family that you understand their concerns, but its a very safe environment, run by one of the best teams of midwives.

2 of my 3 babies were born at north shore, and my midwives were exceptional with it all.

maybe take mum/sister along to an appointment to meet with your midwife, have a look around etc.

at the end of the day it is your choice, not theirs :)

#48 Moo point

Posted 02 November 2013 - 06:28 PM

Your pregnancy, your baby, your choice. I think it is really unfair of your mum and sister to be pressuring (i would say almost bullying) you into making decisions that suit them. It's one thing to express some concern, it's another to goad you about it. Ryde only take low risk pregnancies; any sign of issues and you would automatically be transferred to RNSH anyway.

FWIW, I would have loved to birth at Ryde but am just out of the area. As it turns out, I would have been transferred anyway as DS got stuck after a few hours of pushing (he and I were never in any danger, I even waited half an hour for an epidural and head OB to perform a forceps delivery). I was glad to be at RNSH though so I didn't have to be in an ambulance at that stage.

The thing is, even if you go public somewhere else, you will be looked after by midwives and only see an OB once or twice unless you're assessed as high risk. So unless they're expecting you to pay thousands of dollars to go private then you can't just choose an OB anyway!

The caseload midwifery group practice at RNSH is awesome, just in case you change your mind ;)

#49 Soontobegran

Posted 02 November 2013 - 06:34 PM

View PostAvadaKedavra, on 02 November 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

Lets not forget that birth got 'medicalised' for a reason.

The WHO says 15% of births require surgical intervention to save maternal or fetal life.

And this figure only relates to mortality.
The figures would be significantly higher if it incorporated perinatal neonatal and maternal morbidity and long term outcomes.

#50 StopTheGoats

Posted 02 November 2013 - 06:51 PM

I was a patient at RPA's birth centre. Lucky that RPA's birth centre is right next door to their delivery ward as by the time the midwives realised something was wrong, my son was in distress and my birthing bath looked like a scene from Jaws. I can't remember his APGAR scores but they were bad and he was given oxygen on delivery.

Due to a rushed transfer and some disagreements between the midwives and the Obs I've ended up with pelvic floor trauma that will take another birth or surgery to repair.

The distance I had to travel was approximately 50 mtrs.

I'm booked in for another birth centre birth as I am not keen on drugs or a c-section but I am doing so under the care of a private Obstetrician. I don't blame the midwives at all for what occurred. They were actually quite lovely and professional. This stuff just happens quite regularly during birth (though my Obstetrician believes that my problems were exacerbated by the midwives ideological commitment to allowing women to go quite far overdue).

Perhaps your sister has seen one or two routine births like mine and is simply stating her opinion out of concern?

It's not the birth centre, it's the 30mins transfer time even in an ambulance during peak hour from Ryde to RNSH. My birth centre had a transfer rate of 25%. It's not outside the realms of possibility that you will fall within that 25%

Edited by StopTheGoats, 02 November 2013 - 06:56 PM.

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