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Charges dropped in rape case


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#26 Owliegirl

Posted 29 January 2014 - 04:00 PM

View Posthayleymumof3, on 29 January 2014 - 03:56 PM, said:

It implies without actually stating that a lot are false allegations.

It does sound like that doesn't it! But could they also be meaning because sexual assault is under reported?

#27 BetteBoop

Posted 29 January 2014 - 04:00 PM

View PostCitizen X, on 29 January 2014 - 03:53 PM, said:

Umm no.   The rare cases of false allegations are not what makes it harder.

Rape culture myth 1 - most rape complaints are false.
Reality - police estimate false reports for rape are under 5%, yet 1 in 3 women report being raped.

Rape culture myth 2 - A conviction rate of under 5% which is the lowest of any 'felony', is all women's fault.
Reality - in a world that believes rape culture myth 1, is it any wonder?

#28 Hayleymumof3

Posted 29 January 2014 - 04:00 PM

View PostDEVOCEAN, on 29 January 2014 - 03:59 PM, said:

Well an AVO against him was withdrawn as well.

We reported a case of sexual assault a long time ago. Our DD was assaulted whilst walking home from school.
The police who interviewed her made her feel as though she wasn't believed, and his high and mighty school principal tried to blame it on her as well.
He didn't even think he had done wrong until DH confronted him and his parents and he apologised. His mother didn't even know until then what he had done.

Still doesn't mean that she lied.

#29 Starrydawn

Posted 29 January 2014 - 04:00 PM

View PostEBeditor, on 29 January 2014 - 03:57 PM, said:



That's horrendous! I'd be reporting that comment, blocking that user and telling them why.

Not one of my friends just a commenter on the news article posted.

#30 Hayleymumof3

Posted 29 January 2014 - 04:01 PM

View PostOwliegirl, on 29 January 2014 - 04:00 PM, said:

It does sound like that doesn't it! But could they also be meaning because sexual assault is under reported?

You're right it COULD mean that it's because it's under reported but that's not how it reads.

how hard is it to state that "due to the under reporting of sexual assault the real number of sexual assaults is hard to determine"?

#31 DEVOCEAN

Posted 29 January 2014 - 04:05 PM

View Posthayleymumof3, on 29 January 2014 - 04:00 PM, said:

Still doesn't mean that she lied.
No, but it could(not saying it does) mean that things were proven to have not happened as has been reported.

#32 Owliegirl

Posted 29 January 2014 - 04:06 PM

I agree.

Look I am not saying she didn't lie about being assault or he is guilty. I just wish the media would write about the reality women face!

#33 Hayleymumof3

Posted 29 January 2014 - 04:07 PM

View PostDEVOCEAN, on 29 January 2014 - 04:05 PM, said:

No, but it could(not saying it does) mean that things were proven to have not happened as has been reported.

But what if she hasn't and the article has now left the impression that she has, thus fuelling the lie that all women lie about rape.

It means that women and children like your DD get treated the way your DD was.  That is standard.

#34 EBeditor

Posted 29 January 2014 - 04:09 PM

Hayley, I was telling owliegirl what has been reported. I got the sense that the 'dramatic new evidence' was something they couldn't reveal as it might, for example, identify the woman involved.

The smh article on the withdrawing of the charges makes it clear that the media haven't been told what the evidence is.

It's important to be wary but at the same time it is also not fair to accuse a reporter of being biased we don't know the full story either.

#35 EBeditor

Posted 29 January 2014 - 04:10 PM

View Posthayleymumof3, on 29 January 2014 - 04:07 PM, said:



But what if she hasn't and the article has now left the impression that she has, thus fuelling the lie that all women lie about rape.

It means that women and children like your DD get treated the way your DD was.  That is standard.

Honest question - how do you think it should have been reported?

#36 ali-song

Posted 29 January 2014 - 04:18 PM

View Posthayleymumof3, on 29 January 2014 - 03:56 PM, said:

These are just a few stats being reported on in the Canberra times today about sexual assault here in Canberra

Just read the tone between the two of these One is Physical assault the other sexual




Now check out the tone in this Paragraph



Read more: http://www.canberrat...ml#ixzz2rlRLhyL

It implies without actually stating that a lot are false allegations.
No - that's a statistical term. Just means the estimate of the rate isn't terribly precise due to the small numbers.

#37 Hayleymumof3

Posted 29 January 2014 - 04:29 PM

View PostEBeditor, on 29 January 2014 - 04:10 PM, said:

Honest question - how do you think it should have been reported?


Without the undertone of 'she lied" and maybe a short reminder that false allegations are rare a short sentence at the end wouldn't hurt anyone and just remind the public that even though all they hear about are the rare cases they are in fact RARE and add the numbers the a sexual assault hotline like C.A.S.A  http://www.casa.org.au/contacts/ for victims to seek help.  They do it with suicide stories and depression stories why not sexual assault ones.

#38 BetteBoop

Posted 29 January 2014 - 04:30 PM

View Posthayleymumof3, on 29 January 2014 - 04:29 PM, said:

Without the undertone of 'she lied" and maybe a short reminder that false allegations are rare a short sentence at the end wouldn't hurt anyone and just remind the public that even though all they hear about are the rare cases they are in fact RARE and add the numbers the a sexual assault hotline like C.A.S.A  http://www.casa.org.au/contacts/ for victims to seek help.  They do it with suicide stories and depression stories why not sexual assault ones.

Cos you don't want to encourage more liars to make sh*t up.

#39 Hayleymumof3

Posted 29 January 2014 - 04:31 PM

View Postali-song, on 29 January 2014 - 04:18 PM, said:

No - that's a statistical term. Just means the estimate of the rate isn't terribly precise due to the small numbers.

It still implies something it doesn't mean.  Not everyone Knows it's a statistical term and you can bet there are people at home reading that and going "Cause women lie".

#40 CallMeFeral

Posted 29 January 2014 - 04:33 PM

View Posthayleymumof3, on 29 January 2014 - 03:56 PM, said:

It implies without actually stating that a lot are false allegations.

To be fair it doesn't imply either way - I'd have read it as there could be under-reporting or different factors influencing reporting between the states.

I'm so sorry your DD had that experience Devocean :(

#41 Feral-as-Meggs

Posted 29 January 2014 - 04:34 PM

Ill probably get called out for "poor menz"ism but I don't think it's fair for either of these individuals as to be used as fodder for the ongoing EB discussion about rape culture now that the case is not proceeding.  

Fair enough to talk about statistics or your own story, or if the people involved speak up for themselves.

#42 BetteBoop

Posted 29 January 2014 - 04:37 PM

View Postmeggs1, on 29 January 2014 - 04:34 PM, said:

Ill probably get called out for "poor menz"ism but I don't think it's fair for either of these individuals as to be used as fodder for the ongoing EB discussion about rape culture now that the case is not proceeding.  

Fair enough to talk about statistics or your own story, or if the people involved speak up for themselves.

It's a news story and the implication feeds into the myth that most rape complaints are false.

If we can't discuss news stories, well that hoses discussion down considerably doesn't it?

#43 Owliegirl

Posted 29 January 2014 - 04:40 PM

This case exemplifies the kind of reporting being done. It has already added to the social rhetoric. And the fact is it has been reported as news, yet there seems to be contradictions on what has happened, and in the reporting of it it seems to be making implications that might be true but might not be. The media needs to be scrutinised. This is not about the people involved particularly but how this case has been handled from the get go!

#44 Lucrezia Borgia

Posted 29 January 2014 - 04:56 PM

View Posthayleymumof3, on 29 January 2014 - 04:29 PM, said:




Without the undertone of 'she lied" and maybe a short reminder that false allegations are rare a short sentence at the end wouldn't hurt anyone and just remind the public that even though all they hear about are the rare cases they are in fact RARE and add the numbers the a sexual assault hotline like C.A.S.A  http://www.casa.org.au/contacts/ for victims to seek help.  They do it with suicide stories and depression stories why not sexual assault ones.

I work for a media outlet (not fairfax) - we reported in a similar way.

I have been on holidays so haven't been privy to the legal's on this particular case, but I do like your idea of adding the sexual assault hotline to stories. It's an editorial call but I will suggest it.

Just very generally speaking, in cases where charges have been dropped you might expect to see cautious reporting re the (previously) accused person due to defamation concerns.




#45 Drowninginferal

Posted 29 January 2014 - 05:35 PM

Ninemsn doesn't exactly provide the most in depth coverage.

'During his first appearance, no mention was made of the charge being dropped, with the prosecution telling the court the Director of Public Prosecution needed three further weeks to prepare their case. Magistrate Chris Longley said it was still an indictable offence.'

Care of www.news.com.au/national/im-just-glad-its-over-charges-dropped-against-ben-kooy-at-centre-of-strathfield-train-station-rape-case/story-e6frfkp9-1226812954664

Sorry for the link. I'm on the iPad and can't figure out to embed it.

Edited by shutterspeed, 29 January 2014 - 05:36 PM.


#46 pocketferal

Posted 29 January 2014 - 05:37 PM

View Posthayleymumof3, on 29 January 2014 - 04:29 PM, said:




Without the undertone of 'she lied" and maybe a short reminder that false allegations are rare a short sentence at the end wouldn't hurt anyone and just remind the public that even though all they hear about are the rare cases they are in fact RARE and add the numbers the a sexual assault hotline like C.A.S.A  http://www.casa.org.au/contacts/ for victims to seek help.  They do it with suicide stories and depression stories why not sexual assault ones.

I agree that it should have been written without the "she lied" undertone however putting a note at the end saying that false rape allegations are rare would be far from neutral reporting.

This isn't an article on the subject of rape, it is an article on a specific tape allegation. Given that the man who was charged is clearly identified, a statement like that would surely imply that he did commit rape and the charges are dropped for reasons other than him being innocent. He is considered by the legal system to be innocent and given the lack of information given by police we have to assume they are right. Articles that imply an innocent man is a rapist could put him and others in danger.

I agree the article was very badly written and implies that the girl lied by I don't think it is ok to imply that a man who has been freed free of charge is a rapist.

It is important that people are made aware that false rape allegations are rare but I think it needs to be done in its own separate article, not within an article on a specific allegation where it's meaning could be misconstrued.

#47 Hayleymumof3

Posted 29 January 2014 - 05:42 PM

View Postpocketmoney, on 29 January 2014 - 05:37 PM, said:

I agree that it should have been written without the "she lied" undertone however putting a note at the end saying that false rape allegations are rare would be far from neutral reporting.

This isn't an article on the subject of rape, it is an article on a specific tape allegation. Given that the man who was charged is clearly identified, a statement like that would surely imply that he did commit rape and the charges are dropped for reasons other than him being innocent. He is considered by the legal system to be innocent and given the lack of information given by police we have to assume they are right. Articles that imply an innocent man is a rapist could put him and others in danger.

I agree the article was very badly written and implies that the girl lied by I don't think it is ok to imply that a man who has been freed free of charge is a rapist.

It is important that people are made aware that false rape allegations are rare but I think it needs to be done in its own separate article, not within an article on a specific allegation where it's meaning could be misconstrued.

Him being innocent isn't actually the ONLY reason charges would be dropped.  Go back and read the first page for reasons why they may have been dropped.

yes the only thing that needs to be misconstrued in that article is the reasons the charges were dropped, lets not try and confuse people with actual facts and reality.

Edited by hayleymumof3, 29 January 2014 - 05:43 PM.


#48 Drowninginferal

Posted 29 January 2014 - 05:42 PM

What pocketmoney said...

#49 EBeditor

Posted 29 January 2014 - 06:18 PM

I gate adding the details of relevant helplines would be useful.

I would worry that including a line about false reporting being rare would imply this was a case of false report.

#50 Owliegirl

Posted 29 January 2014 - 07:10 PM

I agree actually EBeditor. I think that there needs to be separate reporting covering the facts about rape.




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