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Ready Set Go Girls #249

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#1 Forum Moderator

Posted 01 March 2015 - 07:34 PM

New thread time ladies. Here's the link to your old thread.


#2 OnlyOneMore

Posted 01 March 2015 - 09:42 PM

Thanks for your message Blackcat but unfortunately it seems that my egg quality was crap despite my age because none of the 3 eggs fertilised. The embryologist said she was surprised because in the past we'd had good fertilisation rates (80-100%) & my husband's deposit had a good count/sperm motility. She said that she thought the low number of eggs was the main problem - if I'd had a larger yield, I may have had a greater chance of getting at least one good egg.

I am gutted. I'd prepared myself for a poor outcome (such as having nothing to transfer) but it never crossed my mind that they might not even fertilise at all. And the biggest concern is what this means for future cycles. The embryologist said we would need to use ICSIs from now on just in case... But I'm worried that my eggs may be of such low quality, that it will be a futile (not to mention expensive) exercise.

Has anyone had experience with using growth hormone during a stimulated cycle for low ovarian reserve? Also I have found some references on the Internet about how back-to-back stimulated cycles may have a positive cumulative effect for poor responders - has anyone experienced this?

Soul11 - hope everything worked out ok with your embryos & that you ended up with something to transfer or freeze.


#3 Gee gee

Posted 02 March 2015 - 08:45 AM

Onlyonemore, I did a couple of unsuccesful cycles last year. I am not currently planning on doing any more cycles but I still stalk the thread, hoping for good news for those who are cycling.

My last cycle we used human growth hormone and it was the worst cycle I have done in terms of egg quality. So from my personal experience, the extra money was definitely not worth it.  

I also did one back-to-back cycle and saw no difference (i.e. I got about the same amount of eggs and same quality as per usual).

Unfortunately, the few different things I have tried saw no improvement on my crappy egg quality. Are you on DHEA? That is the only thing I have seen which seems to sometimes increase quality of eggs. It did not work for me, but I suspect I already had a good level of DHEA (because when I took the supplement I had terrible headaches which I think suggests I was just overloading my already adequate system). So the supplement was never going to have an impact.

I am sorry that you did not get a good outcome this time and hope that things improve on your next cycle.

#4 Catinblack

Posted 02 March 2015 - 08:48 AM

so sorry to hear this OnlyOneMore. Its sucks completely. I haven't heard of the cumulative effect theory, in saying that though, my start of year fresh cycles are usually crap and by mid year, I get the best egg numbers so there may be something in it.
I used HGH (Saizen) for one cycle at the beginning of last year and it was my worst cycle yet. $2k down the toilet as we actually had nothing to transfer. I personally believe that working on being as super healthy as you can possibly be, mentally, physically - eating really well and exercising and taking your supplements is probably better than any drug, but hey, Im still here so obviously theres other factors. There is some belief that gluten and dairy free can help, and I have to say that I actually did that before my BFP cycle in 2013 and no caffeine either, so even though it was a mc, I still had the best cycle to date. Might be worth considering? Hill plain also used the growth hormone and had a crappy result too, so I would think very carefully about it first. Are you taking CoQ10 - the Ubiquinol formula? (its more absorbable than the more cheaper / more available form). If not I would add that in as its suppose to have benefits too. I find it gives me more energy in general.

hope that helps? take care of yourself. x

#5 soul11

Posted 02 March 2015 - 10:19 AM

Thanks for the wishes everyone - got the call this morning that there was nothing to tfr neither of them free past two cells.. I'm just numb don't even know how to feel. FS said she wants to try down teg a cycle and ICSI next, apparently it was an egg issue so they want to do more tests too. I need my hubby to call back and get it explained to him I could Take in what she was saying - all I could hear was my own thoughts saying I told ya.. All my life deep down I've know I would struggle to be a mum I just don't see the light at the end of this tunnel. I just want to vomit.

Sorry I have to go back and do personals just don't have it in me at the moment. Xxxx

#6 hillplain

Posted 02 March 2015 - 10:24 AM

Hi Ladies,
Sorry I have been AWOL. I had a huge day last Thursday - it took 14 hours to drive 700kms and I had to do it on my own.
Blackcat - how is the waiting going? Hope that you are getting some "Blackcat" time in?
OnlyOneMore - I am sorry to read of your recent cycle. I have had a cycle where nothing fertilised and I can remember being totally wiped out by it. My experience with growth hormone is the same as Gee Gee and Blackcat's. That was the cycle that nothing fertilised for us despite great numbers and all looking good. I have also done DHEA and Melatonin for egg quality and lived on CoQ10. I have not ever been able to increase my egg quality but have seen DHEA and Melatonin work for others... I am sorry that you are where you are at.
Nimble - how did the appointment go with the low cost clinic?
Tmay - how did your bloods go on Friday? Hope that all goes well for you and that IVF brings you your little one.
Shayn - I too would be p*ssed at your FS. Time for a change I would say. You fork out massive amounts of money for this, I would expect better than that also.
Soul - I am so very sorry that you have had these results. My heart goes out to you. It is just so hard when you hear those words and not something that I will ever forget. I too am the same and never take anything in after bad news from my nurse. Big big cyber hugs to you.
Primadonna Girl - I hope that your 2 weeks of waiting to start flies by for you. I know what you mean with putting your life on hold. I was an Australian representative and gave it up to TTC whilst DH continued to compete. I don't know if I should be selling my good horses or keeping them for the kids. Guessing not though.
AFM - Everyone seems very excited about my lining which is nice. As mentioned had a big day last Thursday and was so very tired Friday which was a day that was out of control at work... I got some down time on Sunday which was nice. Off to Melb on Thursday for ET and I so very very frightened that our last little frostie will not survive the thaw. Not much we can do about it but wait and see.
Stay sane everyone and baby dust - HP

Edited by hillplain, 02 March 2015 - 10:26 AM.

#7 OnlyOneMore

Posted 02 March 2015 - 01:49 PM

Hi ladies,

Thank you GeeGee, Hillplain and Blackcat for your replies. I have just got off the phone from my FS who is pretty pessimistic - in fact, she suggested this may be the end of the road for me. The main reason for her negative attitude is the significant decline in my response since my cycles in 2013. She said that given that fertilisation has never been an issue for us in the past, and the fact that I had a couple of empty follicles this cycle (and none at all last month), the problem is almost certainly egg quality. She said that ICSI would be futile for us because we don't have any sperm/egg binding issues and that all I would achieve is fertilised eggs that fail to progress any further. She also wasn't overly optimistic about growth hormone but said it was worth a try if I wanted to over with another stimulated cycle in the future. She hadn't heard of the cumulative cycle effect being published anywhere but said she was happy to consider it but warned against getting my hopes up.

I appreciate her honesty but it is hard to accept. She has always been so optimistic in the past, emphasising that "you're so young... your egg quality will reflect your age not your AMH", "it's about quality not quantity" etc etc. I don't want to be given false hope but it still seems so incredible that everything declined so quickly & that the situation can be so bleak.

The only hope she could offer me was the suggestion that my poor egg quality could be due to undiagnosed endometriosis??? I've never been told they could see any endo on u/s & while I have a painful first day of menstration, I never thought it was more than the usual. I have had 3 ectopic pregnancies for no obvious reason though (which may suggest there is endometrium growing in places it shouldn't be) - So I'm off to have a laparoscopy next week...

Soul11 - I am so incredibly sorry to hear about your cycle. Infertility at such a young age is so fricken unfair! The only reassuring thing I can say is that as long as your AMH hasn't hit the floor like me, you will have time on your side to work out what is going on. Technology is pretty fantastic these days & you will be surprised the difference a change in protocol or even just a different month can make for some people. They learn a lot from your first cycles so it has not been a complete waste. Hopefully they can teak a few things to achieve a better cycle next time. I remember one of my earlier FS saying to me, "as long as there is a sperm and an egg, there is always hope". (This no longer brings me any comfort for obvious reasons, but it applies to the majority of people TTC).

Good luck to all

#8 Catinblack

Posted 02 March 2015 - 02:36 PM

Soul - Im so sorry thats terrible. All I can say is don't give up hope, there are so many stories of people having success against all the odds which is why Im still here!! Take care of yourself and when you're ready pick yourself back up and keep going. Time is on your side even tho right now it doesn't feel like it. This whole infertility thing sucks completely, its so unfair. Sending you big hugs

Onlyonemore - far out, thats hard. Ive also been given some grim outlooks by 2 Drs lately and my response after falling apart for a week is to pick myself up and go somewhere else.

The 3 ectopics is terrible - I had no idea, Ive had one and that was the most terrible experience of my life so I feel for you having had 3. I once had a FS tell me that there is some evidence that they are caused by an abnormal embryo which I hadn't heard before.

I would take some time to think about your next steps, don't give up now if its something you are willing to pursue further, you are young and so there is time to get other opinions and some further investigations. There are so many theories out there with all this and some Dr's don't believe in some of it and others make it their field of expertise. Its confusing and hard to know what to do. It might be worth finding someone radical who can take a look at your situation with fresh eyes. I don't know.

HP - Im sending you the biggest bag of good luck ever for this thursday! Great to hear your lining is glowing waiting for that embie! Good luck xx

Ive booked an appointment with IVFAustralia which is in 2 weeks time. I had a recommendation from another EBer who is old like me and is now pregnant after a similar timeframe of TTC so Im hoping she will have a new attitude and be willing to take a new approach with us. I need to be proactive and push for some changes. God I hope it pays off.

sending big hugs to everyone having a hard time right now :bighug:


Posted 02 March 2015 - 06:11 PM

Hi all, sorry I disappeared for a bit. Things have been crazy and this site froze on me for some reason. I'll post personals later but just wanted to say I can't believe the FS that some of you are dealing with. Honesty is appreciated, but crikey!

I hope you are all doing well considering the circumstances.

For me, I'm still having my bloods tracked. This time last month I was already booked in for my transfer. This month I'm day 17 and my levels are still so low that I'm way off ovulating. I don't know what that's about. I've been sick too so every BT has required multiple jabs and moving the needle around in my arm. Bleh.

Thinking of you all.

#10 waiteduntilnow

Posted 03 March 2015 - 06:56 AM

Hi All sorry I have disappeared for a while, things have been a roller coaster - not sure what I expected.

HP - good luck for Thursday I am crossing everything for you and hope that it is your time.

OnlyOneMore - so sorry to read your FS comments, I agree Blackcat take some time to think it through - see what the tests return, you just never know what will happen.  I can't imagine what you are going through.

TCCC - those needles sound awful!  Not 100% sure where you are up to but sending best wishes.

Blackcat - Good luck with IVF Australia - I go through QFG which I think is affiliated.  I hope that they give you some hope and a new regime.

Soul11 - sending big hugs, that is so hard.

AFM - well it has been an up and down road, I decided to look on the positive that we did fall pregnant even if was a MC, at least I knew I could.  So I started a stim on Thursday (decided in my mind this was going to be my month) and did a scan yesterday - follicles doing well - at about 14.  There were around 16 of them.  GREAT!  Well so we thought had blood tests done and I am already ovulating.  So we have to cancel she can't pick up as they are all too immature - 16 possible eggs GONE.  That is another cycle down and another month towards 40!  I feel so lost as my FS doesn't like to stim 2 months in a row but I also don't want to wait anymore.  I am going to call her today because like many of you after I realised why she was calling I missed most of the info and really don't know how to make an informed decision about what is next.  Sorry so many of my posts have been a downer and I promise not to dissapear this time.

#11 TCCC

Posted 04 March 2015 - 02:31 PM

Waited, sorry to hear what happened! It really sucks when you feel like this time might be it and then bam, your body doesn't want to play ball.

I hope you are doing OK given the circumstances and manage to convince your FS to let you do a back to back cycle.

I had a failed natural FET last cycle, so trying again this month. I'm day 19 and still don't appear to be close to ovulation despite being quite regular every month (usually ovulate day 14-15), so I'm not sure what that's about. Another BT tomorrow.

#12 waiteduntilnow

Posted 04 March 2015 - 03:56 PM

TCCC thanks for the comments, I am ok.  Have talked to the FS and she really wants to give me a rest considering.  So we have decided in the interim (and just in case) to do an unmedicated insem cycle, if that doesn't work then it will be on to a full IVF but with very early monitoring.

Crap to the failed FET, and strange on the cycle, maybe there is a strange moon about at the moment.  How many frosties do you have?

#13 TCCC

Posted 04 March 2015 - 09:18 PM

Ha, maybe you're right. I'd prefer that moon to go away!

We have two frosties left. I have a BT tomorrow, so hopefully they'll say everything's back on track and book me in for a transfer, but I'm not getting my hopes up just yet.

#14 Sparky10

Posted 05 March 2015 - 09:37 AM

Hi Ladies

Firstly I wanted to say how sorry I am to read all the bad news lately. IVF is so tough and you are all so strong to keep going. A special shout out to Hillplain - good luck for today. I've got all my fingers and toes crossed for you.

I hope you don't mind but there has been so much bad luck on this forum lately that I wanted to share a good news story in the hope that it will turn the tide and bring everyone good luck.

Warning PG mentioned:

I really hope this doesn't upset anyone but rather I hope it gives you some inspiration. For those of you who don't know me I've been TTC#1 for 5 years now. I have a genetic condition and low AMH. We've done 8 IVF stim cycles with PGD over the past few years. Every egg we tested had either my genetic issue or another random chromosome abnormality so we never even made it to the stage of transferring a healthy embyro (although we did transfer a couple of untested embryos which we had no luck with either). I was given the FS speech that after so many failed attempts our chances were very slim of ever having a successful pregnancy. After much thought we made the tough decision to stop doing IVF about 8 months ago and get on with our lives. We didn't even try to conceive naturally for the next 6 months (infertility just killed our sex life too!) but in January we DTD once around the time I ovulated and, by some minor miracle, I am now 8.4 weeks PG! We had a scan this morning and bub is looking great with a strong heartbeat. I am in a massive state of shock and we still have a very long way to go (and need to do a CVS because of my genetic condition) but this is the furthest we have made it. Like I said I really hope this doesn't upset anyone but just wanted to let you know that IVF is not the end of the line and there is always a chance of a miracle. I'm praying you all get one soon too.

#15 Jessa_B

Posted 05 March 2015 - 10:33 AM

Sorry to jump in, I saw that sparky had posted and I remembered her from when I was part of this thread last year. Congratulations sparky, that is such a wonderful outcome & I wish you a healthy, uneventful pregnancy.

#16 TCCC

Posted 05 March 2015 - 11:14 AM

Congrats sparky! That's great news!

I'm after some opinions please! I'm day 20 of tracking bloods for a natural FET and don't appear to be close to ovulation, despite my cycles always being regular (normally anyway!). Initially they said the next step was to do an 'artificial cycle' which is taking meds to artificially set everything up (lining etc) and then do a FET in a few weeks, but I think they said I'll need to keep taking some of those meds until 14 weeks pregnant if it works. Meds are progynova, estradot and crinone.

I wasn't sure I wanted to do that, so they said I could do one BT a week until my next cycle kicks in. The purpose of that would basically mean cancelling this cycle but will give me peace of mind that I did ovulate etc. However they did say if the BT happened to pick up that I was about to ovulate, they could book an FET (unlikely but could happen).

Have you guys been on these meds? Is it worth taking them and going ahead this cycle or should I just suck it up, wait for this cycle to finish (with bloods just to check things), then start again next month. If I do the latter, this could happen again or everything could be fine and I do a natural FET (all I'm doing is losing a month).


#17 Shaynavyre

Posted 05 March 2015 - 11:51 AM

Oh sparky! Congratulations! That is such overwhelmingly good news. Feel free to hang out here during your wait for the all clear - this current 3 week wait before cvs must be worse than any of the IVF waiting. Fingers crossed for you and bubs!

#18 Shaynavyre

Posted 05 March 2015 - 12:00 PM

View PostTCCC, on 05 March 2015 - 11:14 AM, said:

Have you guys been on these meds? Is it worth taking them and going ahead this cycle or should I just suck it up, wait for this cycle to finish (with bloods just to check things), then start again next month. If I do the latter, this could happen again or everything could be fine and I do a natural FET (all I'm doing is losing a month).

TCCC - I think you should call back with two questions:
1) can they trigger you? (This was offered to me twice with delayed O on FETs) and 2) if you take all these drugs, are you then "out" for next month regardless?

I haven't done a HRT FET so I'm no expert (but the drugs that are suggesting seems to be the HRT regime) but I think question 2 is needed to make a decision.

The advantage of the clomid FETs is that they can still be back to back, and O seems to be better for me at least. My E2 is also where it should be (when in my hyperstim cycle, despite billions (lol) of eggs it was only 2400.)

I guess if your body needs the extra hormonal support, go with the FS recommendation - but I haven't seen anything other then the chem preg that could hibt at this for you.

Tough call. I hope some of the HRT FET veterans here can give you more help!

#19 TCCC

Posted 05 March 2015 - 12:24 PM

Thanks Shaynavyre. I've never had a cycle this long before so I get the impression that they're trying to continue this one by doing the meds (with the other option being to leave this cycle alone and start again next).

They said trigger etc was an option but FS didn't want to do that because the trigger was apparently the main issue/cause of my overstim in December.

I didn't ask if I'm out for the next one if I do the drugs, but from what I've read, it sounds like I will be, to get my levels back down to baseline.

The nurse did refer to hormone replacement on the phone so it sounds like you're on the money.

I'm thinking all these HRT meds seem a bit much given this is the first time I appear to have O'd late (unless I've had other cycles that weren't tracked where its happened late or I haven't O'd at all... If that's possible), but if I say no to the meds, I'll be out for this cycle. I'm leaning towards missing out on this cycle and hoping the next is normal, but not sure!

#20 Shaynavyre

Posted 05 March 2015 - 01:05 PM

Okay - I'm massively overdue for personals: Here we go!

Primadonna girl: Welcome to our little group - I hope youre stay is brief - and that you have gotten that magical pre-cycle BFP. There is so much mythos around the natural "before we started IVF" or "when we gave up on IVF" BFP's that I was starting to think they were all a lie! That is until Sparky popped in today with her wonderful news!

Soul: I just want to hug you right now. Your hopes were so high - and positivity is so very important - but it also means the weight of this disappointment is crushing. I am so sorry honey. If you're in Adelaide and need the real hug, let me know and I will be there in a flash!

Onlyonemore: Welcome to the group - I was a "teller" and I do regret it, as it's truly an experience that no-one can understand - even within our own little group our journeys are so very different, our pain and paths are so different. But we at least can share the hope and the disappointment together. I am really sorry that this cycle hasn't provided you with any success - but I'm with Blackcat in suggesting that you get a second opinion, try a cycle with a different clinic. Just so you know in your heart you have done everything. I figure we're all Safety Net capped by now, so there's not much to lose!

Blackcat: Best of luck with IVF Australia, I would probably pay the fee for FOI to your current people now, so you've got all the data in hand for the appointment. I was also going to mention that Monash IVF (inventors of that blasted AMH test) have opened a "cut price" IVF clinic in Syd called The Bump - as another option to try.

Waiteduntilnow: Waited, that is such a terrible outcome. What antagonist were you using? It really should not have happened, so maybe there is an issue with the whole batch of drugs - It needs to be investigated further! I hate the month off rule too - maybe Onlyonemore can give you links to the cumulative effect theory on back to back - or just something to be able to convince the FS to agree to it.  I hope you were naughty and BD'd like CRAZY - lets face it, if you ended up as octomum with too many to handle, you already know a whole bunch of ladies who would happily adopt one from you! I know I shouldnt joke - it's such a disappointment and a wasted window of time. If it is to be 6 weeks of nothing though, try to find something enjoyable to fill it with. A wine appreciation course perhaps?

TCCC Waiting to O, and the daily bloods sucks terribly, especially because the duration is unknown. I had my earliest, smack bang on day 14 this cycle - and I'm sorry your body isn't playing ball. I'm also feeling sorry for myself that I've lost my TWW buddy!

Had my transfer Monday - they went for assisted hatching this time. It seems like maybe this is the little emby that could. It definately survived the thaw - it was frozen as a 7 cell, and had developed an 8th at time of transfer, but from my reading, the fact that it has 15% fragmentation equates to a 16.5% chance of it having made it to blast at all. It's kind of sad to think it's all over already, even though I must endure the 2WW. As far as the transfer goes, same doc as last time (Dr M, I love him!) but for some reason, way way waaaaay worse. Maybe because he got it with one shot last time, I dont know. But it was three attempts before the tenaculam was finally and brutally used (with success). Im glad that the name "tenaculum" sounds ominous, because the instrument itself appears rather innocuous, a pair of forceps perhaps. DH couldnt be there, and I was glad, because there was a far bit of blood and swearing and a few tears.

I'm actually feeling pretty down at the moment. Not the sort of down that some nice words or music or a walk along the beach can pickk me up from. I've finally taken my own advice and I'm seeing the counsellor at my clinic the day my bloods are due. I will know by then (still have a stash of FRER) and lets face it, AF keeps arriving on time, even when O is ridiculously late.  I think it's the realisation that this journey could very well end without a baby. And I won't have the luxury of "we stopped IVF and fell pregnant straight away" - I'm overdue on my deadline for the hysterectomy, I won't ever get to be one of those miracles.

In September, in our "dry-run" practice IVF cycle, I started keeping a diary, every day "Dear Pickle" it read, I kept up with it daily through the first IVF and first FET - but now it seems no pickle will ever turn 18 to get it as a gift from me.

I dont know. Sorry Im so maudalin

On transfer day there was this lovely lesbian couple in the waiting room with me. Faces full of excitement and hope, already brushing fingers on a belly, huge digital camera in hand. And I so desperately wanted that first time back over. And I so desperately hoped that this first time would be their time, so they wouldnt have to feel what its like to come back over and over.

#21 Shaynavyre

Posted 05 March 2015 - 01:12 PM

View PostTCCC, on 05 March 2015 - 12:24 PM, said:

from what I've read, it sounds like I will be, to get my levels back down to baseline.

It comes down to a question of - would you prefer to miss out this month or next? that's basically what youre faced with. How much do you want that wine and sushi right now?

On a side note, I really really really think we IVF-ers and especially FET-ers should get a damn PICC line inserted. They last for 6 months, think of all the bloods you won't need to get stabbed for, and they fact that for egg retrieval they have two ports ready for the anaesthetic.

We're in contact with the health services frequenty enough to have dressing changes done, and if we can learn to mix and inject drugs, we can certainly handle a flush ourselves!

#22 Hope28

Posted 05 March 2015 - 05:50 PM

Hi all,

I'm a long time lurker, posting for the first time as DH and I are starting our first IVI cycle this month. We have been TTC #1 for 3 years.

I am fast learning the acronyms (this is like another language! lol) and am looking forward to getting to know you all ...

Thinking of everyone going through this journey and sending best wishes to you all.

#23 Catinblack

Posted 05 March 2015 - 07:11 PM

Sparky OM*G that's absolutely amazing!! I'm so thrilled for you! That's made my day, and you deserve every minute of this happiness after everything you've been through. That's so wonderful.

I need to catch up on other posts but couldn't wait to say congrats to Sparky and bump!! Great news is always welcome xxx

#24 Shaynavyre

Posted 05 March 2015 - 07:29 PM

Welcome Hope! Don't be afraid to ask what things mean, I still do that too! I hope your stay with us is brief and helpful!

#25 Jo.F

Posted 05 March 2015 - 08:41 PM

Sparky!! Oh my GOD!!! That is absolutely fantastic. I am so, SO happy for you. That's the best news I've heard all day. I can't really put into words how happy I am. After all you've gone through. Wow. So amazing! xxx :D :D

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