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IVF and picking a gender? **SENSITIVE and mentions MMC**


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#26 mrsJacko

Posted 28 October 2015 - 09:29 AM

View Postbabybug15, on 28 October 2015 - 02:49 AM, said:


Also consider why you want a child with particular genitals? Given gender and biological sex are different, and there's no guarantee any child you have will fit a particular stereotype or ideal. How would you handle having a child who is transgender, intersex, a tomboy or just not a "girly girl"? Especially if you travelled overseas and spent a lot of money for their conception.

I really like this quote babybug, very thought provoking I think and VERY true :)

#27 EmmDasher

Posted 28 October 2015 - 09:40 AM

View Post~Bob~, on 28 October 2015 - 05:40 AM, said:

I don't think they can test for spina bifida using PGD, can they? I thought the main approach was increasing folate and pre natal testing?

Slight edit for privacy.

The chances of having a baby with spina bifida are about 1 in 1000 for the average person with no history. If you have a history your chances are about 4 in 100 for any subsequent pregnancy. If you had a second child with spina bifida that risk would rise to about 9 in 100.

The only way to reduce that risk is to take a high dose folate (megafol 5mg). By taking that you reduce your risk to about 1 in 100. It is still significantly higher than the average person.

There isn't any genetic screening available to test embryos during IVF etc.

In future pregnancies you would be flagged as at risk of spina bifida and would have more diligent scans at the 12/13 week mark. I believe that there might be a protein that can be picked up from amniotic fluid during an amnio. However, amnios are generally done from 14 weeks and it isn't conclusive. High levels of the protein are just an indicator. You would still need confirmation from scans.

My point is that IVF will not have any impact on whether you have another baby with spina bifida.

Edited by Emmdash, 29 October 2015 - 01:37 PM.


#28 Lady Sybil Vimes

Posted 28 October 2015 - 09:40 AM

View PostEllie bean, on 28 October 2015 - 09:00 AM, said:



I have to say I hate these comments, to me its the same as saying "I didn't have PND so it must not exist." Just because you would not have suffered gender disappointment, does not mean it is not real for many. Of course it is in no way comparable to the heartache of not being able to conceive, nowhere near it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist and just dismissing it as something you shouldn't feel isn't going to make it go away.
(By the way I am not saying gender selection should be available, I think if it was it would be open to abuse.)

As I acknowledged, I don't understand it. I get that for some people that it's a real thing but... I just don't get it. I've read threads about it here and I still can't get it. Maybe that's because of the number of people who've told me they feel sorry for me because I had boys. That offends me more than I can say. I would never feel disappointed I had two lovely boys.

I think your comparison the postnatal depression is off. One has an actual biological basis. The other doesn't. I take your point about it feeling real to some people, though.

When I see people say that they want a girl to go shopping with or to recreate the relationship they had with their sisters (and I've seen those often come up) I think it's unfair to impose those expectations on a child. What if they can't measure up? When I see people say they feel closer to their daughters than their sons at very young ages (I'm talking infant and toddler), I find it baffling and sad.

#29 Riotproof

Posted 28 October 2015 - 09:48 AM

View PostOwliegirl, on 28 October 2015 - 09:28 AM, said:



Why would her son be reading EB? Seriously lay off with the attempt to guilt trip people.

I would have thought you would understand that people get gender disappointment and how it affects women. Have some compassion.

I have compassion for people who undergo Ivf, deal with the emotional,physical, financial crippling fall out and still don't get a baby to take home.

I don't have compassion for people with children who really, really, really just want to try out parenting the opposite sex.

#30 Ellie bean

Posted 28 October 2015 - 09:49 AM

View PostLady Sybil Vimes, on 28 October 2015 - 09:40 AM, said:

As I acknowledged, I don't understand it. I get that for some people that it's a real thing but... I just don't get it. I've read threads about it here and I still can't get it. Maybe that's because of the number of people who've told me they feel sorry for me because I had boys. That offends me more than I can say. I would never feel disappointed I had two lovely boys.

I think your comparison the postnatal depression is off. One has an actual biological basis. The other doesn't. I take your point about it feeling real to some people, though.

When I see people say that they want a girl to go shopping with or to recreate the relationship they had with their sisters (and I've seen those often come up) I think it's unfair to impose those expectations on a child. What if they can't measure up? When I see people say they feel closer to their daughters than their sons at very young ages (I'm talking infant and toddler), I find it baffling and sad.
Look it can cause some people real depression and be a very real thing though. Because there is no logic to it doesn't mean its not real. Saying it "feels real" to some people is actually the same IMO as saying "I didn't have PND but I'm sure yours 'feels' real." I think you missed my point and are still being dismissive.

eta can I just say again I am in no way comparing it to the heartbreak of not being able to conceive. It was probably insensitive of me to even respond in a thread where posters have been talking about their IVF heartbreak and struggles so I will shut up now.

Edited by Ellie bean, 28 October 2015 - 10:27 AM.


#31 Soontobegran

Posted 28 October 2015 - 10:17 AM

View PostEllie bean, on 28 October 2015 - 08:55 AM, said:

To be fair, EB can be anonymous, I'm sure I've written plenty of things about my kids and DH that I would not be happy for them to read.

EB is not always anonymous and clearly it was the sentiment that flawed me rather than actually thinking her son may read it.

#32 Ellie bean

Posted 28 October 2015 - 10:18 AM

View PostSoontobegran, on 28 October 2015 - 10:17 AM, said:

EB is not always anonymous and clearly it was the sentiment that flawed me rather than actually thinking her son may read it.
Yes fair enough. The sentiment was pretty off.

#33 Soontobegran

Posted 28 October 2015 - 10:21 AM

View PostOwliegirl, on 28 October 2015 - 09:28 AM, said:

Why would her son be reading EB? Seriously lay off with the attempt to guilt trip people.

I would have thought you would understand that people get gender disappointment and how it affects women. Have some compassion.

Big eye roll OG.


Never did I say that gender disappointment wasn't a factor for some people.........saying on an internet that you felt like you won a lottery having a girl after one boy. Every child is a lottery win.

You need a little compassion too.....read some of the posts and get back to me.

#34 dolcengabbana

Posted 28 October 2015 - 10:35 AM

View PostSoontobegran, on 28 October 2015 - 10:21 AM, said:



Never did I say that gender disappointment wasn't a factor for some people.........saying on an internet that you felt like you won a lottery having a girl after one boy. Every child is a lottery win.



I completely agree. I would rather have a successful IVF cycle then win the lottery. Every child is a lottery win. I think my odds at lotto may be higher then in the IVF stakes however :(

#35 Cimbom

Posted 28 October 2015 - 10:51 AM

This may sound harsh but I'm glad it's illegal in Australia. Many/most of the opinions I've come across requesting this service seem like they need a good psychologist, not IVF.

Even IVF can't do anything for us, as the medical/genetic issues I'm concerned about passing on to any kids I have can't be properly tested for yet.

#36 MsBusy123

Posted 28 October 2015 - 11:10 AM

OP, I understand the desire to have a particular gender, and it's often people that either have the gender they want or one of each that always say they don't understand it.

But there's a difference between choosing to add another child to your family and hoping that the baby is that gender, and actually actively "weeding" out the opposite gender, which is what you would be doing if you pursued gender selection via IVF.

ETA
*** warning - may be distressing ***

I remember reading a gender swaying forum about a particular woman hoping that her baby's heart would stop beating after they discovered that it was not the gender they were hoping for. It was repulsive, and it made me realise that I actually don't care what gender my babies are.

Edited by josh2003, 28 October 2015 - 11:15 AM.


#37 Lady Sybil Vimes

Posted 28 October 2015 - 11:28 AM

View PostEllie bean, on 28 October 2015 - 09:49 AM, said:


Look it can cause some people real depression and be a very real thing though. Because there is no logic to it doesn't mean its not real. Saying it "feels real" to some people is actually the same IMO as saying "I didn't have PND but I'm sure yours 'feels' real." I think you missed my point and are still being dismissive.

I think it's a poor analogy. I've nursed many women with post partum depression and post partum psychosis. Women who were on the verge of killing themselves and their child, who were sectioned under the mental health act. It's not comparable to wishing your child had different genitals, in my opinion.

#38 rosie28

Posted 28 October 2015 - 11:50 AM

View PostRosiebird, on 28 October 2015 - 11:39 AM, said:



Isn't that a similar sentiment to "I have compassion for people who have real medical complications with their birth. I really don't have compassion for people who just really really wanted a vaginal birth and didn't get to try it out".

It's very dismissive of people's feelings. Just because you don't think gender disappointment is real, doesn't mean it isn't real or upsetting.

I take your point here- and I would never dismiss gender disappointment, as I don't doubt it's very real and at times very upsetting, perhaps even depressing. I just don't think it's something the medical profession should be using their expertise to "fix" by way of gender selection. There are too many opportunities for abuse, and in some cultures it would be highly attractive to abuse it.

#39 JinksNewton

Posted 28 October 2015 - 12:05 PM

View PostInes07, on 28 October 2015 - 08:49 AM, said:

When I did have one I was overjoyed and so excited and have not hidden that fact. What's wrong with that? Girls are different to boys, whether they're a tomboy, girly or not.
No they're not.
I think as women maybe it's because we can relate to girls more
No I don't. As a rule I seem to get along with men better, not because I dislike women, I'm just not great with the group dynamics.
and I know many men who also would like to have a son.
My husband just wanted a baby. Any baby.



#40 JustBeige

Posted 28 October 2015 - 12:06 PM

Please refrain from personal attacks.

I have done some editing.


Thank you
JustBeige
Moderator

#41 Riotproof

Posted 28 October 2015 - 12:56 PM

View Postrosie28, on 28 October 2015 - 11:50 AM, said:



I take your point here- and I would never dismiss gender disappointment, as I don't doubt it's very real and at times very upsetting, perhaps even depressing. I just don't think it's something the medical profession should be using their expertise to "fix" by way of gender selection. There are too many opportunities for abuse, and in some cultures it would be highly attractive to abuse it.

I agree with this.

Edited by Riotproof, 28 October 2015 - 01:07 PM.


#42 Acidulous Osprey

Posted 28 October 2015 - 12:58 PM

I had gender disappointment.

I think some of you are totally whack with your perceptions of it.  It's especially delightful to read parents of both genders attacking parents who only have one gender.

It doesn't mean that we have unrealistic expectations of what a relationship with a son or daughter might be.  It doesn't mean we don't love the children we have.

It means we have feelings, sad feelings.

In my case, infertility, miscarriages and stillbirth and two sons with significant disability?  You bet I am sad that I never brought a daughter to term.  Especially as it is statistically likely my daughters would not have the conditions my sons have.

#43 Acidulous Osprey

Posted 28 October 2015 - 01:03 PM

deleted :D

Edited by Acidulous Osprey, 28 October 2015 - 01:41 PM.


#44 Riotproof

Posted 28 October 2015 - 01:07 PM

AO, I don't think what you described is simply gender disappointment. I'll delete though.

#45 Owliegirl

Posted 28 October 2015 - 01:15 PM

I didn't need a psychologist to cure my gender disappointment. I had a baby girl. GD gone. Just a thought.

View PostLady Sybil Vimes, on 28 October 2015 - 11:28 AM, said:

I think it's a poor analogy. I've nursed many women with post partum depression and post partum psychosis. Women who were on the verge of killing themselves and their child, who were sectioned under the mental health act. It's not comparable to wishing your child had different genitals, in my opinion.

Can I say though that women with PND who are at this point are the severe cases. Many women with PND do not have feelings of suicide or harming their baby. You're taking it to the extremes.

#46 FearsomeFeralFreak

Posted 28 October 2015 - 01:56 PM

I never get why someone expressing their desire for one sex gets people so het up and so defensive of their own families.
Also why people get so rude and judgmental.

If you have all boys or all girls and are happy - great! The OP doesn't feel like that so if she has the money and the means I don't really see the issue. Its clear from this, and all other sex selection threads, that floods of people won't be beating down the doors of IVF facilities to get themselves a girl. Most people are happy with what they have got.

I find the vitriol misplaced. The OP trying to have a girl via IVF won't be assisting or preventing anyone else just trying to get pregnant.

#47 gracie1978

Posted 28 October 2015 - 02:07 PM

View Post~Bob~, on 28 October 2015 - 05:40 AM, said:



I don't think they can test for spina bifida using PGD, can they? I thought the main approach was increasing folate and pre natal testing?

You're totally right, brain fart.

#48 Froyo

Posted 28 October 2015 - 02:42 PM

What's vitriolic about stating the fact that gender selection is illegal in Australia unless there are dx risks of specific sex - linked conditions?

#49 WaitForMe

Posted 28 October 2015 - 03:21 PM

.

Edited by WaitForIt, 03 November 2015 - 07:21 PM.


#50 Bwok~Bwok

Posted 28 October 2015 - 03:57 PM

I get the gender disappointment, along with 'wanting more children'... It's a desire that you need to fulfil. I get you don't feel complete if you don't have a gender specific child or you don't have the longed for 3rd/4th child etc...

Do I feel that way? No!

But there is no way I would ever support IVF being used for Gender Selection (unless it's for severe gender specific heriditary diseases).

Maybe follow some of the stories of women who are having to do PGD for Gender specific heriditary disease and look at the turmoil they are going through. It's more emotional than you may ever understand and it may make you second guess whether you want to do IVF for gender selection (which would be done overseas).


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