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Give Formula overnight for a break?


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#26 4kids mostlysane

Posted 31 March 2016 - 07:49 AM

Just on the topic of making bottles.  I bottle fed all four of my kids.  I'd  make up the next day's bottles at night (using boiled water that had cooled down to room temp) and put them in the fridge and then warm them up (either by sticking them in a container of hot water or the microwave) as I needed to use them.  None of my kids ever got sick from formula being prepared the wrong way.  Just follow the instructions on the tin.

If he's already taking a bottle of EBM it can't hurt to try a bottle of formula.  I remember when I went back to work, and even without breast feeding I was knackered.

xx

#27 Veritas Vinum Arte

Posted 31 March 2016 - 07:51 AM

My formula was added to cooled boiled water at room temp. Dump in formula, shake and give to baby. No heating. Made travel very easy.

TBH though, even my FF kids who had slept 10pm to 8am from 8/12wks of age between 8-12m woke hourly from midnight to 6am. Not hungry, no bottles, just could not get themselves back to sleep. Happened with both my second and third children.



#28 librarygeek

Posted 31 March 2016 - 07:54 AM

DD 9 months has been on formula since 6 months, EBF before that. She slept through from 4 months to 7 months, and since then has woken at least once a night for a feed, despite solids during the day.  

Babies are trial and error - and parental sanity is important.  Give formula a go.  You can mix it with EBM if you don't want to give 100% formula (my health nurse advised this to wean DD onto bottles at 6 months so the taste wasn't a big change).

Just remember that when they start school you can't tell who was breast or bottle fed.  :)

#29 happygoluckyinoz

Posted 31 March 2016 - 10:07 AM

Thank you for all the comments I really appreciate it!

I don't know why I feel the guilt over it, as honestly I really wasn't up for breastfeeding when I was pregnant and thought bottles would be so much easier! But now I'm here and I guess I need to shift my mind-set on it.

He doesn't eat much solid food during the day, we do BLW so he picks at bits and pieces, eats some, but most ends up mashed into the tray or on the floor :)

I know some babies aren't ready to sleep through, and he might be one of those, it's (as I'm sure you all know) tough when I've got all the mums group mums and friends with babies similar ages who are all sleeping though and throwing all their advice at me - such as 'tough love' (which I won't do, I can't let him CIO). He sleeps so well in his cot I'm keen to keep him in it if at all possible.

Last night he was up at 12am, 15 minutes on the breast and he was back asleep. Up again at 5am and had a full feed on both sides, back to sleep by 5.30am. I didn't bother going back to sleep this morning and felt much better for it (time will tell how I feel this afternoon!) I left him asleep in bed and he'll probably wake for the day at around 8.30am.

#30 triangle

Posted 31 March 2016 - 12:48 PM

View Posthappygoluckyinoz, on 31 March 2016 - 10:07 AM, said:

Thank you for all the comments I really appreciate it!

I don't know why I feel the guilt over it, as honestly I really wasn't up for breastfeeding when I was pregnant and thought bottles would be so much easier! But now I'm here and I guess I need to shift my mind-set on it.

He doesn't eat much solid food during the day, we do BLW so he picks at bits and pieces, eats some, but most ends up mashed into the tray or on the floor :)

I know some babies aren't ready to sleep through, and he might be one of those, it's (as I'm sure you all know) tough when I've got all the mums group mums and friends with babies similar ages who are all sleeping though and throwing all their advice at me - such as 'tough love' (which I won't do, I can't let him CIO). He sleeps so well in his cot I'm keen to keep him in it if at all possible.

Last night he was up at 12am, 15 minutes on the breast and he was back asleep. Up again at 5am and had a full feed on both sides, back to sleep by 5.30am. I didn't bother going back to sleep this morning and felt much better for it (time will tell how I feel this afternoon!) I left him asleep in bed and he'll probably wake for the day at around 8.30am.

I'm all for BLW, and did it for my kids, but I did also spoon feed them too. (the first one did not take to food at all and was a good 9-10 months before he'd eat solids, luckily my milk seemed to see him through!).

I did find though that even though their calories and nutrition is being supplied from milk, that giving them some pureed/mashed solids helped too.

Mine liked sweet potato. And avocado and banana (separate or together). Maybe try a bit of both?

As for the mums group... well there is a reason I never went, and that is one of them!! As well as helpful MIL etc ... it might have been the done thing to let baby's CIO back in the day, and some people might be happy to do it now.
But if it doesn't sit well with you, be confident in your self that you can ignore all the braggers and know that you are doing what is best for you and your baby, your family. It is normal for baby to wake up. They don't follow a set routine (even if tizzie hall and her minions say they should) and you and your baby are still learning.

next time they are bragging about their perfect sleeping children, feel free to inform them research has shown the smart ones don't sleep as well . Also, feel free to offer for them to come and look after your baby while you catch up on some sleep, seeing as though theirs are sleeping so well.

#31 knottygirl

Posted 31 March 2016 - 01:16 PM

Have you considered he has reflux? My son developed it at that age. Through the night the acid was coming up when he was laying flat. Feeding soothed his throat but only temporarily. He needed to sleep inclined and have reflux meds

#32 lucky 2

Posted 31 March 2016 - 02:02 PM

View Postbalancing.act, on 31 March 2016 - 07:14 AM, said:



WHO recommendations are also based on worst case scenario and formula feeding guidelines in particular are based on what would be best in a developing country.

As PP said, most people in Australia use cooled boiled water and then add formula. I probably wouldn't do that in an IDP or refugee camp, but it's ok in Sydney.
I disagree that the formula preparation guidelines from the WHO  are based on anything other than scientific research!
For Australian formula preparation guidelines you can use the Australian Infant Guidelines (NHMRC ) or the Infant Nutrition Council Guidelines from the infant formula industry.

#33 Lou-bags

Posted 31 March 2016 - 04:21 PM

From the NHMRC guidelines:

https://www.breastfe...ines 2012_0.pdf



the wHo advocates the use of water at 70°c for preparing formula as this temperature will destroy bacteria.460 However, vitamins and nutrients will also be destroyed461 and use of water at this temperature brings the risk of serious burns. Infants are not at risk from C. sakazakii when formula is prepared with lukewarm (body temperature), previously boiled water and fed within 1 hour.455 As the risk of infection from C. sakazakii is negligible in Australia if correct preparation techniques are followed, the Infant nutrition council (Inc)1 advocates the use of water at body temperature (i.e. not hotter than 37°c), which poses no risk of nutrient deficiency or scalding.

It also contains clear info for how to prepare formula properly.

Edited by Lou-bags, 31 March 2016 - 04:25 PM.


#34 Lou-bags

Posted 31 March 2016 - 04:33 PM

View Postmaus84, on 31 March 2016 - 04:24 PM, said:

^ I tried to like that Lou Bags but it said no Posted Image

Eta Oh now it's working

Haha maybe it felt my reluctance to post as on the whole I disagree with your point about the WHO, but still agree that there are times when the recommendations can be adjusted to suit the particular risk profile of a certain population ;)

#35 Hands Up

Posted 31 March 2016 - 05:07 PM

View PostIsolabella, on 31 March 2016 - 07:51 AM, said:

My formula was added to cooled boiled water at room temp. Dump in formula, shake and give to baby. No heating. Made travel very easy.


Same.

#36 Pooks Combusted

Posted 31 March 2016 - 07:09 PM

Hi OP. My baby is formula fed but the same age. She has been given purées from 4mo but from 6mo I really moved her over to finger foods.

Over the past few weeks we got some night waking and looking for an extra bottle.

I've got her on 3x meals a day. I'm giving her finger foods, and then offering some spooned food afterwards- mashed potato and veg, mashed casserole, weetbix, yoghurt, etc.

That's filled her up and her sleep has improved.

Although I've just jinxed myself and she has just this minute started singing for another bottle :)

So my suggestion is- use the formula by all means if it means you can get some blessed, blessed sleep- but maybe look at upping the food intake.

Baby will still get the hang of finger foods with some spooned in foods as well. Mine's eating chops and sandwiches, no harm done.

#37 Veritas Vinum Arte

Posted 31 March 2016 - 07:23 PM

View Postmaus84, on 31 March 2016 - 07:53 AM, said:



Sorry to hijack but I think my 9 mo DD is doing a similar thing at the moment. She's BF but I'm trying to nightwean as I'm pregnant but she just wakes up ALL NIGHT LONG. She self settles for naps and bedtime, but just can't/won't do it in the middle of the night. How did you resolve it Isolabella? Or was it just a case of waiting it out?

ETA - she's never slept the whole night through though. Never. I'm knackered :p

Sorry no magic bullet.... Just time. I think dD kept it up until 13/14m though.

#38 froglett

Posted 31 March 2016 - 07:33 PM

Op, if you think the bottle will get you some sleep and recovery go for it! I'm right there with you ATM with DD (5 months), who's just started waking more and in back at work 4 days. Blergh.

Just one thought I had. You said he went to bed at 7, then woke screaming at 9.45. That and the screaming but seeming likes he's still asleep makes me think he might be overtired.

DS (now 3) used to wake just like you're describing whenever he was overtired (and wake more frequently too). Perhaps try putting him to bed 30 mins earlier and see if that helps?

Good luck. Sleep deprivation is bloody torture.

#39 daisy007

Posted 31 March 2016 - 08:55 PM

View Postmaus84, on 31 March 2016 - 07:53 AM, said:



Sorry to hijack but I think my 9 mo DD is doing a similar thing at the moment. She's BF but I'm trying to nightwean as I'm pregnant but she just wakes up ALL NIGHT LONG. She self settles for naps and bedtime, but just can't/won't do it in the middle of the night. How did you resolve it Isolabella? Or was it just a case of waiting it out?

ETA - she's never slept the whole night through though. Never. I'm knackered :p
Sorry to hijack again but you just described my nearly 9 month old perfectly. He also settles easily at bed/during the day but just will not settle at night. I've been spending so many hours up with him and trying everything to settle, absolutely nothing is working. It's exhausting, I'm really hoping it's just a phase. He has also never slept through but generally sleeps loads better than he is at the moment.

#40 happygoluckyinoz

Posted 31 March 2016 - 11:05 PM

I decided to relax my BLW approach this evening, he had sausages and sweet potato that he fed himself (and loved actually, the most he's eaten ever!) and then I spoon fed him some pureed pear, which again he ate most of instead of flinging it on the floor. I'll try to make more of an effort to start getting the foods and calories into him and see if that makes a difference.

On the overtired front, he certainly could be. At daycare he doesn't get as many naps as he would at home and is up a lot longer. Today he had 30 minutes this morning and then an hour over lunch, he'd been up since 12.30pm - so 6.5 hours by the time he went to bed - far too long, but that's daycare for you.

Friday's are my day off, so at least if tonight is bad I get to lie in and catch up on a few hours.

I'm undecided still on formula, might see if increasing his food intake makes a difference first. Thanks for all the advice :)

#41 Ellie bean

Posted 31 March 2016 - 11:43 PM

View PostLou-bags, on 31 March 2016 - 04:33 PM, said:



Haha maybe it felt my reluctance to post as on the whole I disagree with your point about the WHO, but still agree that there are times when the recommendations can be adjusted to suit the particular risk profile of a certain population ;)
Yeah when DD was first going onto formula when in hospital the paediatric nurses basically told me you didn't have to be that strict, so I never was. No issues here. I actually don't know anyone who used formula for more than an occasional bottle, who was that strict. But of course everyone has to make their own risk assessment.

Also OP at that age I thought calories from formula would be just as good as food calories- formula might not have all the properties of EBM but it's not bad for babies- do whatever gets you some sleep.

#42 triangle

Posted 01 April 2016 - 08:08 AM

View Posthappygoluckyinoz, on 31 March 2016 - 11:05 PM, said:



I'm undecided still on formula, might see if increasing his food intake makes a difference first. Thanks for all the advice :)

That sounds great, and there is no need to introduce formula either if it doesn't feel right for you. If it is any consolation, I started giving my 2nd baby a bottle of formula at about 1 to get him ready for going to daycare. He never slept any better.

#43 echolalia

Posted 01 April 2016 - 08:10 AM

View PostMcG2013, on 29 March 2016 - 06:48 PM, said:

Hi OP, it sounds like a tough time for you guys atm. You should read up on reverse cycling nursing, as you're only just back at work I would think this may be a part of the reason your lo is waking more frequently now. Babies waking for a feed during the night is completely normal until 12 months unfortunately. Waking for comfort is understandable too. Have you tried co-sleeping or cot against your bed? I know it's now for everyone but if it means more sleep then it might be worth considering.


I thought this might be reverse cycling too. If you move the cot into your room then it might help you get more sleep.
A quick breastfeed then straight back down again, a couple of time a night, is good.  We did this and he started sleeping through the night when he was ready.

On the other hand if you don't want to bf overnight or do controlled crying  then I would not bother with expressing just for overnight feeds, formula would be easier.

#44 Ellie bean

Posted 01 April 2016 - 10:46 AM

I don't want to derail and I respect anyone's decision on what they feed their baby, but I genuinely don't understand why you would be reluctant to give a baby under one year old formula if they are taking solids, and they are already bottle fed so giving formula is not going to affect the BF relationship- can anyone explain this to me?
It really is a genuine question and not meant to antagonise, as I have seen this in a number of threads and probably don't get it because mine were FF! I feel like there must be some information that I am missing
Thanks in advance

#45 EmmDasher

Posted 01 April 2016 - 11:04 AM

View PostMcG2013, on 29 March 2016 - 06:48 PM, said:

In regards to the formula, please look up how formula is to be made up correctly. It is both the water AND the formula that is to be sterilised. Not many people realise but the formula is supposed to be added to the water at 70 degrees and then left to cool and can only be left out for a few hours before needing to be thrown out so your DH would probably have a worse time preparing formula than the EBM.

You've done a great job so far. Hopefully you can find a solution that works for you all soon.

I guess this would make me completely ignorant and lax but when we started formula with DD at 8 months we just used tap water. I figured she was drinking tap water anyway so couldn't see any benefit in going through that rigmarole to make formula. She's survived in spite of our laxness I guess.

OP with solids we did a mixture of finger foods and spoon feeding. DD would always start with finger food on her tray but I'd back it up by spoon feeding her something substantial of what we were eating - eg carbs & protein & veges. Fruits like apple/pear are not very filling. By 11-12 mths she was coordinated enough to operate the spoon herself. She was always a hungry baby so a strict BLW approach would have been totally inadequate for her needs as she just didn't have the coordination to get sufficient calories by herself.

Have you tried pain relief though for the night waking? I have generally found any of DD's wake ups before midnight to be pain related. Giving a dose of panadol/nurofen at bedtime eliminates the wake up instantly. It's pretty telling if they have the panadol or nurofen and wake again 6-8 hours later as the dose wears off. DD was well into teething by that age and also picked up a range of illnesses when she started daycare around 9mths that made her a bit uncomfortable.

#46 happygoluckyinoz

Posted 01 April 2016 - 11:18 AM

View Postmaus84, on 01 April 2016 - 07:09 AM, said:

Also, just with day care, my DD also only does 10-20min naps at daycare. Could you ask them to put him down for his second nap later than 12.30? They put my DD down at 2, and even if she only has ten minutes it's not such a long time before bed. It's tricky, the sleep and daycare thing!

They do try, he gets put down for a nap after he's been awake 1.5hrs-2hrs and sometimes he'll settle himself to sleep no problem, other times he'll just play in the cot. So it's quite hit and miss.

View Postecholalia, on 01 April 2016 - 08:10 AM, said:

I thought this might be reverse cycling too. If you move the cot into your room then it might help you get more sleep.
A quick breastfeed then straight back down again, a couple of time a night, is good.  We did this and he started sleeping through the night when he was ready.

The cot won't fit in our room unfortunately.

View PostEllie bean, on 01 April 2016 - 10:46 AM, said:

I don't want to derail and I respect anyone's decision on what they feed their baby, but I genuinely don't understand why you would be reluctant to give a baby under one year old formula if they are taking solids, and they are already bottle fed so giving formula is not going to affect the BF relationship- can anyone explain this to me?
It really is a genuine question and not meant to antagonise, as I have seen this in a number of threads and probably don't get it because mine were FF! I feel like there must be some information that I am missing
Thanks in advance

For me it's a personal thing. I didn't think I would like breastfeeding, it was really tough in the beginning and for me it was like something took over and I became determined to breastfeed and not give him formula (I think because it was hard it made me even more determined - I'm stubborn like that). It's almost like I've set myself this personal goal to only breastfeed and I do love it, so I don't want to mess with my supply by giving formula. I don't know if that makes any sense at all, I really struggle to articulate how I feel about breastfeeding, because it was such a mind-shift for me!

View PostEmmdash, on 01 April 2016 - 11:04 AM, said:

Have you tried pain relief though for the night waking? I have generally found any of DD's wake ups before midnight to be pain related. Giving a dose of panadol/nurofen at bedtime eliminates the wake up instantly. It's pretty telling if they have the panadol or nurofen and wake again 6-8 hours later as the dose wears off. DD was well into teething by that age and also picked up a range of illnesses when she started daycare around 9mths that made her a bit uncomfortable.

We have if he was screaming and inconsolable, most of the time it's him stirring and then grizzling, so more like he's unable to put himself back to sleep rather than being in pain. He's just had six(!) teeth come through in the past couple of months so we have been dosing him up for that - but it didn't seem to make much of a difference to his sleep.

Update on last night -
Well he only went and slept from 7pm - 4am! Fed and back to sleep by 4.15am and slept until 7.15am this morning. That is the best (and longest) stretch of sleep he has done in about 4 months!! :) so I'll be continuing to make sure he gets fed properly at meal times. I don't normally bother with breakfast, but today he had scrambled eggs, blueberries and strawberries!

#47 triangle

Posted 01 April 2016 - 12:02 PM

View PostEllie bean, on 01 April 2016 - 10:46 AM, said:

I don't want to derail and I respect anyone's decision on what they feed their baby, but I genuinely don't understand why you would be reluctant to give a baby under one year old formula if they are taking solids, and they are already bottle fed so giving formula is not going to affect the BF relationship- can anyone explain this to me?
It really is a genuine question and not meant to antagonise, as I have seen this in a number of threads and probably don't get it because mine were FF! I feel like there must be some information that I am missing
Thanks in advance

It's kind of like telling some one to feed their formula fed baby a bottle of EBM. you probably wouldn't want to do it. It's personal preference. If a baby is happy on breast milk, there is no need for formula from a dietary perspective. Whole foods and breast milk is sufficient.

Now, if someone chooses to add formula, or whatever, it's a personal choice. Not right or wrong. I think breast feeding is hard work for many mums, and so to get to a stage where breastfeeding is established and successful, to use formula might feel unecessary.

But if there is no need for formula then there is no reason to introduce an artificial food when baby can get what they need from other sources. (if the parents choose that obviously)

#48 Ellie bean

Posted 01 April 2016 - 12:15 PM

View Posttriangle, on 01 April 2016 - 12:02 PM, said:

It's kind of like telling some one to feed their formula fed baby a bottle of EBM. you probably wouldn't want to do it. It's personal preference. If a baby is happy on breast milk, there is no need for formula from a dietary perspective. Whole foods and breast milk is sufficient.

Now, if someone chooses to add formula, or whatever, it's a personal choice. Not right or wrong. I think breast feeding is hard work for many mums, and so to get to a stage where breastfeeding is established and successful, to use formula might feel unecessary.

But if there is no need for formula then there is no reason to introduce an artificial food when baby can get what they need from other sources. (if the parents choose that obviously)
OK thank you for responding.
There just seems to be this perception or advice given that a bottle of formula is somehow worse than or more artificial than eg some extra pureed apple, which I was struggling to get, but the OP's personal reasons make sense to me :)

#49 Lou-bags

Posted 01 April 2016 - 12:22 PM

For me, mostly because we didn't need it.

And because I had developed quite a visceral reaction to the suggestion due to busy bodies suggesting formula to me to solve DS's apparent problems. For sleep, or because he was so big I couldn't possibly keep up and I didn't need to martyr myself etc etc. These types of comments were thankfully infrequent but incredibly undermining and upsetting to me. It really got my back up!

I'd also have had concerns that it might effect my supply and lead to early weaning. But I'm sure that can be avoided with careful management. I didn't want or need to risk it.

I have pretty much zero opinion on how another parent chooses to feed their baby, though.

(Plenty of opinions on the quality of information and support new mothers receive, however ;) )

#50 triangle

Posted 01 April 2016 - 12:25 PM

At the end of the day I think it comes down to personal choice.

We all know formula and breast milk are both suitable choices to feed a baby. We don't make parents feel guilty for using formula, so I'm the same vein I think supporting parents to continue to choose breast milk is ok too.
I know I found when I was breastfeeding, there was a lot of pressure to introduce formula, so I could sleep, so I could get a break, so baby would sleep. (My first would never have taken a bottle anyway). Now my kids were both roly poly chubbas, so there was no need for formula. It was just suggested as some magic cure-all when the reality was my baby was just fine and doing exactly what he was meant to be doing. There wasn't a lot of support for continuing to breastfeed as baby got older and other challenges arose.




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