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Did they do it wrong?


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#26 Caribou

Posted 03 July 2016 - 09:57 AM

View Postsnaugh, on 02 July 2016 - 09:23 PM, said:

I did not get asked if I had voted elsewhere

I got no instructions

It also turns out that there were volunteers at my polling place who were not initialing the papers, according to a local FB discussion page. It seems it was only for the first hour or two, but I voted at about 08.30.

Nobody seems sure if this means a wasted vote or not. I went below the line, for more than 12 preferences. I value my vote, I want it to count.

I never even thought to check if a the initial was there.

Anybody know what will happen to my very well thought out vote, if it is  not initialed?

EFS
.
AEC will assume you voted the best you could, so irrevlant to wether you didn't put enough numbers on or too many, they'll count your vote. It's a safety loophole law they have


ETA: mis-read. I don't know about the initial. I assume if it wasn't initialled, it would be invalid. However they seem to have to initial it before handing it over, so I imagine it did get initialled.

Edited by Madnesscraves, 03 July 2016 - 10:02 AM.


#27 Coffeegirl

Posted 03 July 2016 - 10:06 AM

View Postcanstayferal, on 03 July 2016 - 09:53 AM, said:

Can someone please explain the initials on papers?

How does it make a vote invalid?

I wouldn't have a clue if mine were initialed or not.

I definitely wasn't told how to fill out the forms.  I was asked if I had voted before and then the lady who handed me the forms said she had no clue why she had to ask that, and then said they couldn't stop people voting twice anyway.  Guess she broke lots of rules.

My understanding is that the AEC has X amount of pages printed and at the end of the count they need to have the used sheets plus the unused sheets equal the original number printed.

By initialling the pages, if there is a specific polling place with more pages counted than were actually allocated, they can figure it out quicker.

Stupid though as I could just initial my own page and no one would know.  The guy that initialled mine was just a scribble.    Safer to have a specific stamp of something done up.



At my polling place, I was asked my name, if I had voted before and then he very clearly and slowly went through the  voting process.  And explained if I made a mistake to come back and see him for another sheet.

No wonder the queues were so long!



What really stumps me is that they don't ask for ID.  I could technically go to a number of different polling places and vote on behalf of a number of different people.    



#28 Froggilicious

Posted 03 July 2016 - 10:07 AM

Even if you had returned and identified the lack of initial they would not be able to rectify it  as there is no way to know for sure where the ballot paper came from. Potentially you are attempting to gain a second vote.

There is a standard speil, written on the back of the place signs at each issuing point. Instructions are clear the it is to be read to each voter. However due to the unusually long wait times yesterday I'm not surprised it was overlooked. Especially as many people get narky with the people issuing ballots when they try to say it.

#29 Froggilicious

Posted 03 July 2016 - 10:11 AM

View PostCoffeegirl, on 03 July 2016 - 10:06 AM, said:



My understanding is that the AEC has X amount of pages printed and at the end of the count they need to have the used sheets plus the unused sheets equal the original number printed.

By initialling the pages, if there is a specific polling place with more pages counted than were actually allocated, they can figure it out quicker.

Stupid though as I could just initial my own page and no one would know.  The guy that initialled mine was just a scribble.    Safer to have a specific stamp of something done up.



At my polling place, I was asked my name, if I had voted before and then he very clearly and slowly went through the  voting process.  And explained if I made a mistake to come back and see him for another sheet.

No wonder the queues were so long!



What really stumps me is that they don't ask for ID.  I could technically go to a number of different polling places and vote on behalf of a number of different people.    

Initials are used to confirm that a ballot paper was issued by an authorised person. No initial no vote. Initials can also if need be be tracked to a given issuing point. Not the case for a rubber stamp.

#30 Lunafreya

Posted 03 July 2016 - 10:15 AM

Asking for ID is contraversial as not everyone has it. It also does t stop voter fraud, just voter impersonation which is not as much if a problem.

#31 Coffeegirl

Posted 03 July 2016 - 10:16 AM

View PostFroggilicious, on 03 July 2016 - 10:11 AM, said:



Initials are used to confirm that a ballot paper was issued by an authorised person. No initial no vote. Initials can also if need be be tracked to a given issuing point. Not the case for a rubber stamp.

There is no way you could track those initials to a specific issuing point.  They were a scribble like a two year old would do.

Hence having a specific stamp for each polling place.


And why even bother checking us off?  Sure they might be able to say we voted twice but they wouldn't be able to find our vote to discard it.     What happens?  Do you get a fine if you are marked off twice?

#32 Froggilicious

Posted 03 July 2016 - 10:24 AM

maybe so but issuing unique stamps to each polling place would be incredibly difficult.

Checking people off is for a number of reasons. Mainly to ensure everyone votes. There is a fine for voting twice. Plus we need to make sure people are voting in the correct division, to collate data re voter turnout and a whole heap of other reasons.

#33 Lunafreya

Posted 03 July 2016 - 10:28 AM

No it wouldn't, every polling both has a number and all the stamps have the electorate. There, that's not hard.

#34 Kafkaesque

Posted 03 July 2016 - 10:36 AM

View PostMasahiro Tanaka, on 03 July 2016 - 10:28 AM, said:

No it wouldn't, every polling both has a number and all the stamps have the electorate. There, that's not hard.

Incredibly expensive though.

Of course the initial can be traced back to the issuer. The person initialing would be doing the same one no matter how much it appears to you to be a scribble.

#35 Froggilicious

Posted 03 July 2016 - 10:37 AM

To an extent. The issue is simmilar to the reasons we vote in pencil. The quantity of stamps required plus the need for stamp pads the cost alone would be huge. And acquisition prior to elections, our division cleared the region of bull dog clips due to the quantity needed. Then there is the issue of storage between elections. Far simpler to provide a pen (which would be required even if a stamp was used).

#36 born.a.girl

Posted 03 July 2016 - 10:42 AM

View PostCoffeegirl, on 03 July 2016 - 10:06 AM, said:




What really stumps me is that they don't ask for ID.  I could technically go to a number of different polling places and vote on behalf of a number of different people.

Surely that would show up when they combine all of the rolls?

They have to combine them all to find out who hasn't voted, so presumably they can also find double ups.

Hard to imagine there are no mistakes though.

Not sure where to from there, though!

When you think of how many security checks we go through for other things, it is a bit weird that we just volunteer the details.

#37 gravity1

Posted 03 July 2016 - 10:43 AM

I was marked off the roll, given detailed instructions on how to vote and wished good luck! (It may have been because I was clutching Labor and Greens HTV cards in a very, very safe Liberal seat).

#38 JustBeige

Posted 03 July 2016 - 11:09 AM

I'm pretty sure that there is legislation that surrounds the initials.  But its mainly to show that the paper was handled / handed out by an authorised AEC worker and its not someone/ some party faking votes.


ETA:  Going to other polling places doesnt work.  They do cross checking on the names and if there is the same name crossed off in multiple places, action is taken against them.

#39 Octopodes

Posted 03 July 2016 - 11:13 AM

View PostOwliegirl, on 02 July 2016 - 07:50 PM, said:

I don't think I  was asked if I had already voted.
I definitely wasn't. I have been at every other election though.

I was told about the new senate voting rules and my ballots were initialled.

#40 Tokra

Posted 03 July 2016 - 11:23 AM

OP I think you are overthinking. I really don't think it matters. If someone doesn't know how to vote they can easily ask.

Whether they ask you specific questions has no bearing on how you vote.

#41 lazycritter

Posted 03 July 2016 - 11:27 AM

I didn't go up until 3:30pm the place was very quiet then. I would never bother going up in the morning.

The volunteer didn't tell me how to vote to my recollection.  I do specifically remember her initialling the paper and go to hand it to me then suddenly like she almost forgot,  she says, " oh have you already voted today? "

#42 Rilla

Posted 03 July 2016 - 11:34 AM

I can't remember if my papers were initialled or not. I hope so. What happens if there are a large number of un-initialled papers at one booth because one (or more) person wasn't doing it? I hope someone gets followed up about that because that could significantly affect the outcome of the election.

#43 MrsLexiK

Posted 03 July 2016 - 12:03 PM

View PostCoffeegirl, on 03 July 2016 - 10:16 AM, said:



There is no way you could track those initials to a specific issuing point.  They were a scribble like a two year old would do.

Hence having a specific stamp for each polling place.


And why even bother checking us off?  Sure they might be able to say we voted twice but they wouldn't be able to find our vote to discard it.     What happens?  Do you get a fine if you are marked off twice?
My uncle got a fine last time because yes he voted twice. He also started the bidding on my grandmothers house (not his mum it was my other side) that day after bosting about the two votes.

#44 nasty snaugh

Posted 03 July 2016 - 02:13 PM

I am so worried my vote doesn't count. And so cranky.

With the marking off of names, I could get someone else fined for voting twice, I know lots of peoples names and addresses in the area.

#45 MoonPie

Posted 03 July 2016 - 02:33 PM

You should ALL have been asked if you'd voted in this election before, and there WAS a specific spiel that we had to say to each voter. I did notice that only a few of us were still reading the specific spiel out though by halfway through the day.

#46 MerryMadrigalMadge

Posted 03 July 2016 - 03:17 PM

http://www.aec.gov.a...-guidelines.pdf

page 3.

Your vote, if not initialed, is not immediately informal.

We don't look for the initials in counting, neither do the scrutineers - it would only be detected at the formal recount back at HQ, where the principle is always to give effect to the voters intention.

At my OIC training, this question was asked, and the divisional officer said there that he had never ruled a vote informal just based on the ballot missing an initial.

With so many workers and so many millions of voters, there would be a reasonable assumption that there would be a number of votes missing an initial, overlooked by that worker.

#47 katpaws

Posted 03 July 2016 - 06:28 PM

I worked at a polling station.

You are not required to show id at a polling station to vote. You could ask for id if you had a lot of trouble understanding how a voter's name was spelt so you could make sure they were marked off the roll correctly. Many people gave me an id of some form automatically and i explained that they did not have to do this.

We had a set speech for every person who came in to have their name marked off the roll which included asking for their name and address (to mark them off the roll correctly), if they had voted in the election before (no one asked me why i was asking this, just thought it was funny and most people said "no way") and then instructions on how to fill in both ballot papers. When i asked if they had voted beforehand i would then initial the ballot papers. I would give each person the papers as i explained how to vote (House of Rep first, then Senate). The script was on the desks.Except for mine, as i was at the start of the day the only ballot issuing officer who had done an election before so it was easy for me to remember what to say.

Some people needed more time with explaining how to vote - people confused the House of Rep with the Senate ballot; for NESB or elderly people usually a bit more explanation was needed - anyone who seemed not sure i said come back to me and i would help them (obviously within the parameter of my role). The only time i did not explain the voting process (fully) was when someone said they were fine and they did not need me to explain it.

As far as i could tell, all the ballot issuing officers initialed the ballot papers. My understanding would be that a ballot paper missing an initial wouldn't be automatically invalid.

#48 Esseffaz

Posted 03 July 2016 - 07:01 PM

I was asked if I'd already voted.

It was then explained to me how to fill out the forms.

#49 Feral Grey Mare

Posted 03 July 2016 - 07:14 PM

View PostFeral teens?, on 02 July 2016 - 07:48 PM, said:

My person just gave me the papers. Fortunately I already knew how to vote. How is there not a standard spiel Aus wide With the option of clarification?


There is, but after you have given it 50 000 times you sometimes get a little hazy.

#50 ~LemonMyrtle~

Posted 03 July 2016 - 07:14 PM

I was told how to vote. And he repeated 'at least 6 on the top, 12 down the bottom' or something about three times. He was very thorough. He even asked if I was eligible to vote early (cause I voted early) and I don't recall ever being asked that before.

(I wasn't technically eligible, but I do have two young kids and they were with nanna that day so I voted while I could! Something along the lines of "do you have young children that would scream if made to wait in line for  more than 15 minutes" should be added to the early vote eligibility!)




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