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Help with tax file numbers


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#1 Funwith4

Posted 13 July 2016 - 05:19 PM

Hi, we own a small hospitality business. We've only had it for 7 months. After we had owned the business for just a few weeks, two of the staff members quit (it didn't end on great terms).

I've text them to ask for their TFN so I can complete their group certificates. One hasn't replied. The other has told me he doesn't need to give me his TFN because he earned less than a certain amount. Is this correct or is he being difficult? I'm a bit out of my depth with the book-work, I've never done the books for a business before so am learning as I go.

Thanks :)

#2 Coffeegirl

Posted 13 July 2016 - 05:32 PM

You should have gotten their TFNs before you did their first pay.  If not, the tax office could have you withhold 47.5% (from memory) of their income.   Did you deduct any tax from their wages before you paid them?

They need to complete a TFN declaration and send it to you so you can lodge with the ATO.  If not you have technically paid them 'cash in hand'.  I'm guessing the onus would be on them to declare the tax they paid.  

And if he earned 'under the threshold' and you deducted tax from his pay, then he's an idiot not to give you the tax file number as he could get the tax he did pay refunded.





#3 Funwith4

Posted 13 July 2016 - 05:37 PM

I did ask for his TFN early on but it was never given to me and I didn't chase it up. These are both high school kids who only worked about 10 hours a week.

My DH did the pays, I'm not sure whether he withheld tax but I assume not. I'll ask him when he's home.

#4 JustBeige

Posted 13 July 2016 - 05:38 PM

Their TFNs should have been on file when you got the business - if they came 'with' the business.

tbh, I would speak to your accountant or the ATO and get their advice.

ie: You will be able to give them a breakdown of how much the employee has been paid over the last financial year and how much tax you need to withhold / forms that need to be completed etc

ETA: We posted at the same time :)

Yes, in that case I would ask your DH what he did re their pays, but then would be following up with the ATO/ Accountant.

If the kid refuses to give you a TFN, its on him (and he's a goose for paying too much tax)

The only thing I would suggest you do, is actually put it in writing (so confirmation) that he wouldnt supply a TFN so you had to lodge his group certificate as such.

That way if he tries to come back to complain you have a copy of what you did and you can show good faith in trying to get him to comply.

#5 JRA

Posted 13 July 2016 - 05:40 PM

I suggest you learn very quickly about what is required when you are running a business. Your accountant should be able to help you with that.

The ATO also some really good stuff on their website, but talking to your accountant is most appropriate.

#6 SplashingRainbows

Posted 13 July 2016 - 07:23 PM

View PostJRA, on 13 July 2016 - 05:40 PM, said:

I suggest you learn very quickly about what is required when you are running a business. Your accountant should be able to help you with that.

The ATO also some really good stuff on their website, but talking to your accountant is most appropriate.

So much this.

Easy way to get TFN forms back - no form, 47% tax withholding. You'd be surprised how quick that works. And funnily enough keeps you compliant with the law.

Did you get their super choice forms back?

Did you give them Fair Work Information statements? Fines for not doing so are horrendous.

These are basic things every employer needs to know.

Also, it's now your job to follow up. That's part of owning a business.

#7 Coffeegirl

Posted 13 July 2016 - 07:42 PM

You mentioned they were 'teens'. What age?   DD is 15 and unless she earns over the threshold her work doesn't collect tax at all.

BUT she provided her TFN on the first day.   Without that, they would have withheld the 47%.    


We recently added the TFN requirement to all our new employee forms (where they give us their bank account and super details). Highlighted and bolded, that if they don't return the original TFN before their first pay, then we withhold the 47% tax until they do provide it.  Payroll haven't had to chase anyone since we did that.

#8 Funwith4

Posted 13 July 2016 - 07:53 PM

Thank-you everyone... it's so over my head. DH has owned a business for 15 years (in a different field) so he's very business-savvy. I just thought I would ask here as he's at work at the moment, and I don't see him much anymore to discuss anything (don't get into hospitality - a warning!)

The kids are 15 and 17.

So does anyone know - is there an actual law that states you do not need to supply a TFN if you earn under a certain amount? I've googled and not found anything.

#9 wombats

Posted 13 July 2016 - 08:16 PM

View PostFunwith3, on 13 July 2016 - 07:53 PM, said:

Thank-you everyone... it's so over my head. DH has owned a business for 15 years (in a different field) so he's very business-savvy. I just thought I would ask here as he's at work at the moment, and I don't see him much anymore to discuss anything (don't get into hospitality - a warning!)

The kids are 15 and 17.

So does anyone know - is there an actual law that states you do not need to supply a TFN if you earn under a certain amount? I've googled and not found anything.

I believe that if you are earning money as an employee you do need to supply a TFN or the employer is required to withhold 47%. As an employer you don't know how much they earn - they could have ten jobs.

#10 Funwith4

Posted 13 July 2016 - 08:19 PM

View Postwombats, on 13 July 2016 - 08:16 PM, said:

I believe that if you are earning money as an employee you do need to supply a TFN or the employer is required to withhold 47%. As an employer you don't know how much they earn - they could have ten jobs.

That makes perfect sense to me. I think he's trying to be painful.

#11 PrincessPeach

Posted 02 August 2016 - 07:57 PM

View PostFunwith3, on 13 July 2016 - 07:53 PM, said:


So does anyone know - is there an actual law that states you do not need to supply a TFN if you earn under a certain amount? I've googled and not found anything.

Tax agent here and what everyone else has said is correct. If you do not supply a TFN to your employer they have to withhold 47.5% - even if it's a once off job.

He is having a lend. Basically to cover your butt you need to lodge the PAYG summary sheets to the ATO with the default TFN - I think it's 111 111 111 (I don't see many of them).

Also you need to post him a copy as well - I assume you have his address.




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