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George Pell under investigation for sexual assault


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#1451 Chaotic Pogo

Posted 18 September 2019 - 03:10 PM

I agree. 'Pay off' was not meant to be disparaging of victims who decide they have had enough.   More, that the CC would increase its offers to such victims so that they were more likely to be accepted, but not increase offers to other 'less credible' victims.

#1452 Lunafreya

Posted 18 September 2019 - 03:12 PM

I don't blame victims in the least for accepting money, or for not going through with prosecution. We can't judge them at all.

#1453 katpaws

Posted 18 September 2019 - 03:38 PM

Quote

It is somewhat easier to accept the church's money and go away, make it all stop.

I think for some people when they got some "compensation" money from the Catholic Church for abuse, they felt they had signed their rights away to take the story of abuse further.




I would recommend people read Louise Milligan's book, Cardinal; The rise and fall of George Pell. It gives an insight into why some people did or did not come forward with their stories.

The complainant in the George Pell case has not received compensation and is not seeking any. He came forward to the Police after going to his former friend's ("The Choir Boy") funeral.



#1454 IamtheMumma

Posted 18 September 2019 - 05:16 PM

View Postkatpaws, on 18 September 2019 - 12:14 PM, said:


I've saved that for later reading. I know there was a lot of sexual assaults from nuns indirectly, like leaving a young woman who have just birth to heal naturally without suturing as punishment for her sins. I recall a story about a young woman who was raped by a local man. The nuns made her scrub her labia until she was bleeding and raw to punish her for the rape.

There are numerous stories of the abuses from the Irish nuns in their workhouses. The children of the unmarried mothers suffered horrific abuse if they weren't adopted.

#1455 Lucrezia Bauble

Posted 18 September 2019 - 05:27 PM

horrific.

wonder what it is about the catholic church that attracts such cruelty ....granted it’s not the only institution known to have committed abuse, but it seems to be unique in the intensity of the abuse, how widespread it was and how reluctant it is to address it.

#1456 purplekitty

Posted 18 September 2019 - 05:34 PM

View PostLucrezia Borgia, on 18 September 2019 - 05:27 PM, said:

horrific.

wonder what it is about the catholic church that attracts such cruelty ....granted it’s not the only institution known to have committed abuse, but it seems to be unique in the intensity of the abuse, how widespread it was and how reluctant it is to address it.
The stories from Ireland are horrific.
The US Catholic Church has paid more than $3Billion dollars out in compensation.

I remember the stories my Catholic friends told of their schools.The nuns could be very cruel and that was just everyday stuff.

#1457 Lunafreya

Posted 18 September 2019 - 05:40 PM

Sadistic.  I've heard stories from my parents and grandparents.

#1458 Lucrezia Bauble

Posted 18 September 2019 - 05:48 PM

yeh my MIL was educated by the nuns and she had some awful stories. she died a staunch catholic though....loyalty to the church runs deeps. dh was educated by nuns in primary and he said they were sadistic....senior school he was at a christian brothers college...no abuse stories (from him personally) although there was an abusing priest there at the time ...


#1459 IamtheMumma

Posted 18 September 2019 - 07:40 PM

I don't know of any really heinous stories from the nuns at my school but you knew that if you mucked up in class, you were getting the metal edge of the ruler across your knuckles. It didn't take much to get the ruler.

I'm pretty sure one of the brothers was a paedophile but I can't recall his name so I can't look him up. I suspect he's long dead. He was 60/70 when I was a kid.

#1460 katpaws

Posted 18 September 2019 - 08:16 PM

I'm still hoping there will be an inquiry into the physical abuse done to children in religious institutions like Catholic schools.

#1461 Just Jack

Posted 18 September 2019 - 10:00 PM

View PostChaotic Pogo, on 18 September 2019 - 02:24 PM, said:



This is so very true.  And you know what the CC lawyers will have learned? Pay off anyone like that as early as possible so it never gets to trial again.

Hmmm. Can any lawyers confirm - i didn't think that you could actually prevent someone making a criminal complaint, even if there had been a civil settlement? Not sure though.

#1462 WaitForMe

Posted 18 September 2019 - 10:21 PM

You can't have trust without transparency and accountability, its the same in any business. Trust on its own will eventually be abused.

#1463 Chaotic Pogo

Posted 19 September 2019 - 09:08 AM

View PostJust Jack, on 18 September 2019 - 10:00 PM, said:

Hmmm. Can any lawyers confirm - i didn't think that you could actually prevent someone making a criminal complaint, even if there had been a civil settlement? Not sure though.

A PP pointed out the victim in this case went to the police and not through the CC processes - that would have made a big difference.  I was not previously aware no claims for compensation had been made at any point along the way.

Someone with criminal trial experience will have to answer your question properly. Releasing someone from future claims (ie coming back for more money later) is a little different to saying you wont participate in a criminal trial.

I don't think you can contract out of a statutory right or obligation - but if you have taken the money on the basis of keeping it confidential, but don't keep it confidential, I suppose the contract could have been written you have to give the money back...

#1464 someoneanon

Posted 19 September 2019 - 10:24 AM

I'm hoping Pell is unsuccessful at securing a high court appeal.

I think people need to remember the difference between a sex offender and paedophile. There are many cases of opportunistic sex offenders who prey on children but aren't actually paedophiles. These would be the ones who fall under the "celibacy is bad for them" category. However, these types of sex offenders are unlikely to commit repeated acts against multiple children as they are not attracted to children. Their transgressions are spontaneous with little grooming or inner pressure by compulsion for attacking children existing.

Paedophiles commit repeated acts of sexual violence against children and deliberately, systematically target kids with grooming behaviour. They are sexually attracted to kids and do whatever in their power to transgress against them.

What the RC among other research has showed consistently that a majority of priests who sexually offend against minors fall into the latter group. Therefore, celibacy issues will NOT deter them from preying on children as that is their predilection.  This talk about celibacy has ALWAYS been a smokescreen sent up by the church to hide the fact that at it's core is an organised paedophile ring. And an organisation that covers up abuse.

Edited by someoneanon, 19 September 2019 - 10:26 AM.


#1465 born.a.girl

Posted 19 September 2019 - 10:30 AM

View PostChaotic Pogo, on 19 September 2019 - 09:08 AM, said:

A PP pointed out the victim in this case went to the police and not through the CC processes - that would have made a big difference.  I was not previously aware no claims for compensation had been made at any point along the way.

Someone with criminal trial experience will have to answer your question properly. Releasing someone from future claims (ie coming back for more money later) is a little different to saying you wont participate in a criminal trial.

I don't think you can contract out of a statutory right or obligation - but if you have taken the money on the basis of keeping it confidential, but don't keep it confidential, I suppose the contract could have been written you have to give the money back...


Wasn't there a law change in Victoria a few years ago, specifically with this in mind?  i.e. That you couldn't actually write into a contract that confidentiality is part of it, if the issue becomes a criminal matter.   I'm very vague on all of the details.

#1466 purplekitty

Posted 20 September 2019 - 08:17 PM

More evidence has come to light that paedophile priests working in the Melbourne and Ballarat Catholic dioceses operated in an organised network that included a suburban 'safe house'.

https://www.abc.net....IXAP01t77_NzAxw

#1467 Just Jack

Posted 11 November 2019 - 10:20 PM

High Court to hand down decision on Wednesday re whether it will grant leave to appeal

https://www.theguard...buse-conviction

Seems like this will just be the decision on whether special leave will be granted, not a decision on the appeal itself.

#1468 Chaotic Pogo

Posted 12 November 2019 - 10:17 AM

Yes that is correct.  The decision will be whether or not he is allowed to have another appeal.

#1469 born.a.girl

Posted 12 November 2019 - 10:27 AM

View PostJust Jack, on 11 November 2019 - 10:20 PM, said:

High Court to hand down decision on Wednesday re whether it will grant leave to appeal

https://www.theguard...buse-conviction

Seems like this will just be the decision on whether special leave will be granted, not a decision on the appeal itself.

If he's not granted leave, that is the end of the line for him.

I have zero doubt that if that's the case (going the full pretzel on this one) the redacted parts of the Royal Commission will come to light, and there may be further charges laid before too long.

If he's allowed to appeal, I believe we're in for about another 12 months before the appeal is heard, by all accounts.

#1470 Ruf~Feral~es

Posted 12 November 2019 - 02:44 PM

View Postborn.a.girl, on 12 November 2019 - 10:27 AM, said:


If he's allowed to appeal, I believe we're in for about another 12 months before the appeal is heard, by all accounts.

Hopefully he won't get bail.  At least another 12 months in prison will be something.

I hope against all hope that they deny the appeal though.  Let him rot...... And I'd love to see the other details from the Commission come to light, sooner rather than later.

#1471 IamtheMumma

Posted 12 November 2019 - 02:57 PM

The idea with the appeal is that some law/judicial process wasn't followed right?

#1472 someoneanon

Posted 12 November 2019 - 10:40 PM

I think he hasn't got a good chance of appeal as the letter of the law was stringently followed and applied to this case to prevent it being overturned due to the high interest in it.

#1473 MagsJee

Posted 13 November 2019 - 08:39 AM

Well crap.  He's been given leave to appeal

#1474 Tinkle Splashes

Posted 13 November 2019 - 08:42 AM

Dammit.

#1475 Meepy

Posted 13 November 2019 - 08:43 AM

I am gobsmacked.  Special leave to appeal conviction is not common.  Friends in high places - judicial conservatism at its worst.




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