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George Pell under investigation for sexual assault


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#1451 Lunafreya

Posted 18 September 2019 - 01:48 PM

I think all we can do is hope catholics vote with their feet. Less people in church means less money in the collection plate.

#1452 gettin my fance on

Posted 18 September 2019 - 02:15 PM

View PostIamtheMumma, on 18 September 2019 - 01:18 PM, said:

It certainly has a burnt taste. But it has a lot of money, a lot of friends in very high places and a lot of people willing to believe the priests are being persecuted.

Don't forget, even the parishioners who absolutely accept that the abuse occurred and recognise the untold damage that abuse causes, still just can't bring themselves to stop supporting their church.

Because their need to partake in sacraments comes before children's needs not to be abused.

Selfishness to the nth degree.

#1453 Lunafreya

Posted 18 September 2019 - 02:17 PM

And the community aspect.

There are many ways to be part of a community.

#1454 Chaotic Pogo

Posted 18 September 2019 - 02:24 PM

View PostIamtheMumma, on 18 September 2019 - 12:11 PM, said:

I don't think it is denied in general society but it does seem to get more of a free pass in sentencing because the damage done to the victims makes them "less reliable". Pell is only in jail because the victim was the perfect victim (male, straight, non drug addict, no MH concerns, married, employed). An exception not the rule.


This is so very true.  And you know what the CC lawyers will have learned? Pay off anyone like that as early as possible so it never gets to trial again.

#1455 Lunafreya

Posted 18 September 2019 - 02:57 PM

I wonder how many more victims would have the courage and the resilience that the victim had to persevere for years to get through to trial.

It is somewhat easier to accept the church's money and go away, make it all stop.

#1456 Chaotic Pogo

Posted 18 September 2019 - 03:10 PM

I agree. 'Pay off' was not meant to be disparaging of victims who decide they have had enough.   More, that the CC would increase its offers to such victims so that they were more likely to be accepted, but not increase offers to other 'less credible' victims.

#1457 Lunafreya

Posted 18 September 2019 - 03:12 PM

I don't blame victims in the least for accepting money, or for not going through with prosecution. We can't judge them at all.

#1458 katpaws

Posted 18 September 2019 - 03:38 PM

Quote

It is somewhat easier to accept the church's money and go away, make it all stop.

I think for some people when they got some "compensation" money from the Catholic Church for abuse, they felt they had signed their rights away to take the story of abuse further.




I would recommend people read Louise Milligan's book, Cardinal; The rise and fall of George Pell. It gives an insight into why some people did or did not come forward with their stories.

The complainant in the George Pell case has not received compensation and is not seeking any. He came forward to the Police after going to his former friend's ("The Choir Boy") funeral.



#1459 IamtheMumma

Posted 18 September 2019 - 05:16 PM

View Postkatpaws, on 18 September 2019 - 12:14 PM, said:


I've saved that for later reading. I know there was a lot of sexual assaults from nuns indirectly, like leaving a young woman who have just birth to heal naturally without suturing as punishment for her sins. I recall a story about a young woman who was raped by a local man. The nuns made her scrub her labia until she was bleeding and raw to punish her for the rape.

There are numerous stories of the abuses from the Irish nuns in their workhouses. The children of the unmarried mothers suffered horrific abuse if they weren't adopted.

#1460 Lucrezia Borgia

Posted 18 September 2019 - 05:27 PM

horrific.

wonder what it is about the catholic church that attracts such cruelty ....granted it’s not the only institution known to have committed abuse, but it seems to be unique in the intensity of the abuse, how widespread it was and how reluctant it is to address it.

#1461 purplekitty

Posted 18 September 2019 - 05:34 PM

View PostLucrezia Borgia, on 18 September 2019 - 05:27 PM, said:

horrific.

wonder what it is about the catholic church that attracts such cruelty ....granted it’s not the only institution known to have committed abuse, but it seems to be unique in the intensity of the abuse, how widespread it was and how reluctant it is to address it.
The stories from Ireland are horrific.
The US Catholic Church has paid more than $3Billion dollars out in compensation.

I remember the stories my Catholic friends told of their schools.The nuns could be very cruel and that was just everyday stuff.

#1462 Lunafreya

Posted 18 September 2019 - 05:40 PM

Sadistic.  I've heard stories from my parents and grandparents.

#1463 Lucrezia Borgia

Posted 18 September 2019 - 05:48 PM

yeh my MIL was educated by the nuns and she had some awful stories. she died a staunch catholic though....loyalty to the church runs deeps. dh was educated by nuns in primary and he said they were sadistic....senior school he was at a christian brothers college...no abuse stories (from him personally) although there was an abusing priest there at the time ...


#1464 IamtheMumma

Posted 18 September 2019 - 07:40 PM

I don't know of any really heinous stories from the nuns at my school but you knew that if you mucked up in class, you were getting the metal edge of the ruler across your knuckles. It didn't take much to get the ruler.

I'm pretty sure one of the brothers was a paedophile but I can't recall his name so I can't look him up. I suspect he's long dead. He was 60/70 when I was a kid.

#1465 katpaws

Posted 18 September 2019 - 08:16 PM

I'm still hoping there will be an inquiry into the physical abuse done to children in religious institutions like Catholic schools.

#1466 Just Jack

Posted 18 September 2019 - 10:00 PM

View PostChaotic Pogo, on 18 September 2019 - 02:24 PM, said:



This is so very true.  And you know what the CC lawyers will have learned? Pay off anyone like that as early as possible so it never gets to trial again.

Hmmm. Can any lawyers confirm - i didn't think that you could actually prevent someone making a criminal complaint, even if there had been a civil settlement? Not sure though.

#1467 WaitForMe

Posted 18 September 2019 - 10:21 PM

You can't have trust without transparency and accountability, its the same in any business. Trust on its own will eventually be abused.

#1468 Chaotic Pogo

Posted 19 September 2019 - 09:08 AM

View PostJust Jack, on 18 September 2019 - 10:00 PM, said:

Hmmm. Can any lawyers confirm - i didn't think that you could actually prevent someone making a criminal complaint, even if there had been a civil settlement? Not sure though.

A PP pointed out the victim in this case went to the police and not through the CC processes - that would have made a big difference.  I was not previously aware no claims for compensation had been made at any point along the way.

Someone with criminal trial experience will have to answer your question properly. Releasing someone from future claims (ie coming back for more money later) is a little different to saying you wont participate in a criminal trial.

I don't think you can contract out of a statutory right or obligation - but if you have taken the money on the basis of keeping it confidential, but don't keep it confidential, I suppose the contract could have been written you have to give the money back...

#1469 someoneanon

Posted 19 September 2019 - 10:24 AM

I'm hoping Pell is unsuccessful at securing a high court appeal.

I think people need to remember the difference between a sex offender and paedophile. There are many cases of opportunistic sex offenders who prey on children but aren't actually paedophiles. These would be the ones who fall under the "celibacy is bad for them" category. However, these types of sex offenders are unlikely to commit repeated acts against multiple children as they are not attracted to children. Their transgressions are spontaneous with little grooming or inner pressure by compulsion for attacking children existing.

Paedophiles commit repeated acts of sexual violence against children and deliberately, systematically target kids with grooming behaviour. They are sexually attracted to kids and do whatever in their power to transgress against them.

What the RC among other research has showed consistently that a majority of priests who sexually offend against minors fall into the latter group. Therefore, celibacy issues will NOT deter them from preying on children as that is their predilection.  This talk about celibacy has ALWAYS been a smokescreen sent up by the church to hide the fact that at it's core is an organised paedophile ring. And an organisation that covers up abuse.

Edited by someoneanon, 19 September 2019 - 10:26 AM.


#1470 born.a.girl

Posted 19 September 2019 - 10:30 AM

View PostChaotic Pogo, on 19 September 2019 - 09:08 AM, said:

A PP pointed out the victim in this case went to the police and not through the CC processes - that would have made a big difference.  I was not previously aware no claims for compensation had been made at any point along the way.

Someone with criminal trial experience will have to answer your question properly. Releasing someone from future claims (ie coming back for more money later) is a little different to saying you wont participate in a criminal trial.

I don't think you can contract out of a statutory right or obligation - but if you have taken the money on the basis of keeping it confidential, but don't keep it confidential, I suppose the contract could have been written you have to give the money back...


Wasn't there a law change in Victoria a few years ago, specifically with this in mind?  i.e. That you couldn't actually write into a contract that confidentiality is part of it, if the issue becomes a criminal matter.   I'm very vague on all of the details.

#1471 purplekitty

Posted 20 September 2019 - 08:17 PM

More evidence has come to light that paedophile priests working in the Melbourne and Ballarat Catholic dioceses operated in an organised network that included a suburban 'safe house'.

https://www.abc.net....IXAP01t77_NzAxw




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