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George Pell under investigation for sexual assault


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#51 steppy

Posted 26 February 2019 - 12:04 PM

Why have the other charges been dropped? This will give his supporters ammunition.

#52 IamtheMumma

Posted 26 February 2019 - 12:08 PM

I hope the people he harmed can feel vindicated. I'm sorry that he will put you through more pain by appealing the convictions.

May the justice system show him the same mercy he showed the children he abused.

#53 unicycle

Posted 26 February 2019 - 12:10 PM

I found out about Pell's conviction when overseas for work and had been quietly celebrating it and respecting the suppression order.

How devastating for the people waiting for their turn for justice to be served that this case has been dropped.

My only consolation is that this disgusting person will at least not go to his death with his reputation intact.

It isn't a huge consolation because I worry that the majority of his supporters have not learnt a thing other than to keep helping the other abusers stay away from being prosecuted.

#54 Chaotic Pogo

Posted 26 February 2019 - 12:11 PM

View Postbeastie, on 29 July 2016 - 07:39 AM, said:

Innocent until proven guilty is probably a better way of looking at Pell.

Innocent until proven guilty means the state doesnt lock you up or send you to a penal colony until youve had a 'fair' trial.  Ie, no lynch mob justice, and proved beyond a reasonable doubt.

Doesn't mean you have to like the b*strd or even be civil to them in the meanwhile.

#55 Tinkle Splashes

Posted 26 February 2019 - 12:14 PM

View Poststeppy, on 26 February 2019 - 12:04 PM, said:

Why have the other charges been dropped? This will give his supporters ammunition.

I haven’t heard.

#56 born.a.girl

Posted 26 February 2019 - 12:15 PM

View Postunicycle, on 26 February 2019 - 12:10 PM, said:

I found out about Pell's conviction when overseas for work and had been quietly celebrating it and respecting the suppression order.

How devastating for the people waiting for their turn for justice to be served that this case has been dropped.

My only consolation is that this disgusting person will at least not go to his death with his reputation intact.

It isn't a huge consolation because I worry that the majority of his supporters have not learnt a thing other than to keep helping the other abusers stay away from being prosecuted.


It may not have been able to be reported, but as the judge listening to the request for the continuation of the suppression order said:

Quote

Kidd said that regardless of the likelihood of the appeal succeeding, which he would not comment on, the defence was entitled to the opportunity to make an application to the other court. He said that opportunity had to be given before the county court suppression order was lifted, adding that “if ever there was a case where the milk is spilled, it is this case.”

There were numerous articles about why there had to be a suppression order and how big a case it was, all over the local papers.  It's the worst kept 'secret', and I didn't know a soul who didn't know about it.  Of course we couldn't mention it here.

#57 Avocado tree

Posted 26 February 2019 - 12:21 PM

Wow, the second trial has been abandoned.  But the trial being reported on, was based on one witness.  I am worried he will get off on appeal.  Could the DPP restart the second prosecution if the appeal is successful?

#58 born.a.girl

Posted 26 February 2019 - 12:22 PM

What do our resident legal eagles think the sentence will be?


I'm a bit confused, I believe an appeal has already been lodged.  If he is convicted, given he's been out on bail, will that bail continue given the appeal?  Is that always the case?





#59 Tinkle Splashes

Posted 26 February 2019 - 12:25 PM

View PostAvocado tree, on 26 February 2019 - 12:21 PM, said:

Wow, the second trial has been abandoned.  But the trial being reported on, was based on one witness.  I am worried he will get off on appeal.  Could the DPP restart the second prosecution if the appeal is successful?

There were dozens of witnesses, the conviction was based on all of the evidence not only that of the surviving victim.

The DPP could restart the second prosecution but the decision to do so will have nothing to do with the outcome of the appeal of these convictions. Whatever the reason for discontinuing the second prosecution is, it won’t have been “the current convictions are enough”. That would not be a proper basis for discontinuing.

#60 Lucrezia Borgia

Posted 26 February 2019 - 12:27 PM

View Poststeppy, on 26 February 2019 - 12:04 PM, said:

Why have the other charges been dropped? This will give his supporters ammunition.

i don’t know, i hope not. he got done on five serious counts....

the OPP dropped the charges because the judge ruled a primary piece of evidence inadmissible. not dodgy or non credible. but inadmissible.


#61 Tinkle Splashes

Posted 26 February 2019 - 12:35 PM

Are you able to say what that evidence was LB?

#62 Avocado tree

Posted 26 February 2019 - 12:44 PM

So from my (quick) research, the Catholic Church didn’t fund Pell’s legal defence, it was a fund from supporters? Hope that is correct as my kid’s QLD Catholic School can’t even get air conditioning, imagine them funding a convicted paedophile’s appeal!

i just saw the victim’s statement read by his lawyer.  Heartbreaking, I hope the media respects his appeal for privacy to protect himself and his family.  I feel for him that he now has to go through an appeal.

#63 Tinkle Splashes

Posted 26 February 2019 - 12:46 PM

View PostAvocado tree, on 26 February 2019 - 12:44 PM, said:

i just saw the victim’s statement read by his lawyer.  Heartbreaking, I hope the media respects his appeal for privacy to protect himself and his family.  I feel for him that he now has to go through an appeal.

He will have to await the outcome of the appeal, but he won’t have to give evidence at the appeal. The appeal will be based on evidence given at trial.

#64 Avocado tree

Posted 26 February 2019 - 12:48 PM

View PostTinkle Splashes, on 26 February 2019 - 12:46 PM, said:



He will have to await the outcome of the appeal, but he won’t have to give evidence at the appeal. The appeal will be based on evidence given at trial.

Thank you, my legal knowledge is limited.  Well, at least that is something.

#65 Lucrezia Borgia

Posted 26 February 2019 - 12:51 PM

View PostTinkle Splashes, on 26 February 2019 - 12:35 PM, said:

Are you able to say what that evidence was LB?

not sure yet - i think that will come out - suppression orders on first trial are obviously lifted however there were some in camera proceedings on the evidence for the second trial...we (as in - who i work for) are just trying to ascertain what can be published.


#66 Rowenas Necklace

Posted 26 February 2019 - 12:57 PM

View PostAvocado tree, on 26 February 2019 - 12:44 PM, said:

So from my (quick) research, the Catholic Church didn’t fund Pell’s legal defence, it was a fund from supporters? Hope that is correct as my kid’s QLD Catholic School can’t even get air conditioning, imagine them funding a convicted paedophile’s appeal!

Quote

Catholic churchgoers had been asked to donate to his legal defence, which was run by a formidable barrister known for using confrontational courtroom tactics.

From https://www.abc.net....-trial/10837564

#67 BelleJay

Posted 26 February 2019 - 01:01 PM

Any ideas what the sentence could possibly be?

#68 RichardParker

Posted 26 February 2019 - 01:17 PM

View Postborn.a.girl, on 26 February 2019 - 12:22 PM, said:

What do our resident legal eagles think the sentence will be?


Not a legal eagle in this area but, it was a pretty horrific act.  There should definitely be gaol time.

#69 Tinkle Splashes

Posted 26 February 2019 - 01:21 PM

I spoke to a barrister friend who works in crime and they said there will definitely be time spent in prison. The judge has as good as said so.

#70 BelleJay

Posted 26 February 2019 - 01:22 PM

Good, I want to see him do jail time.

#71 born.a.girl

Posted 26 February 2019 - 01:26 PM

View PostRichardParker, on 26 February 2019 - 01:17 PM, said:

Not a legal eagle in this area but, it was a pretty horrific act.  There should definitely be gaol time.

Yes I think jail time has pretty much been confirmed, I just wonder how long.

I'm often surprised at sentences.


One that galls me is people's frailty if they are older, being taken into consideration with their sentence. Stuff em, they had the best years of their life, when they should have been in jail, outside.   If jail when they're older causes them physical grief, then perhaps they should have fessed up earlier and spent their jail time while they were hale & hearty.

#72 Tinkle Splashes

Posted 26 February 2019 - 01:30 PM

Sentencing will be interesting. His position as archbishop as the time will work against him because it placed him in an exceptional position of authority and trust.

On the other hand, his lifetime of “service” will probably be a factor in his favour.

Hopefully his callous defence of calling the allegations a “fantasy” is used against him.

#73 JRA

Posted 26 February 2019 - 01:32 PM

Quote

No, the convictions occurred in December 2018. The fact of the conviction has been suppressed since then because there was to be a trial of further allegations against him.

Yep, but you could read about it in other countries, newspapers online in other countries.

Interestingly Victoria has more suppression orders for trials than any other state by miles.  Some other countries they are nearly unheard of.

#74 Lucrezia Borgia

Posted 26 February 2019 - 01:48 PM

yep Vic is the Suppression Order capital of australia - all done under a piece of legislation with the Orwellian name of the “Open Courts Act” - its judges are the hardest on contempt too...you didn’t want to get hauled before Justice Lex Lasry (as he once was) for some over zealous reporting...

Edited by Lucrezia Borgia, 26 February 2019 - 01:48 PM.


#75 aquarium2

Posted 26 February 2019 - 02:58 PM

Rolf Harris was sentenced to 5 years and 9 months after being found guilty of 12 counts of indecent assault in the Crown court.

He served just 3 years.




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