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Moving year 7 into secondary school


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#26 liveworkplay

Posted 11 August 2016 - 10:46 PM

My eldest is starting high school next year...grade 7. I can't imagine her having to stay back in a primary school setting.

I suppose it is about what you are used to. Rest assured though, thousands of 12 year olds cope more than adequately with being in a high school setting.

Edited by liveworkplay, 11 August 2016 - 10:46 PM.


#27 Lees75

Posted 11 August 2016 - 10:55 PM

I don't think it's the 12 year olds that we are necessarily worried about. The biggest concern is space at the high school. The 3 local public high schools closest to me already have over 1200, 1200 and 1500 kids.  Where will they fit another 240-300 kids?!

Edited by Lees75, 11 August 2016 - 11:23 PM.


#28 psuedo nim

Posted 11 August 2016 - 11:00 PM

View Post~Jodama_Forever~, on 11 August 2016 - 09:36 PM, said:

They wont have it.

The only state with the 12yo thing is Qld and it also states for an unreasonable amount of time without reasonable provisions, which is subjective and very unlikely you would get in trouble for a kid in high school being at home alone.
Many will be 11 for the first term. I would have personally been ok to catch busses at that age but im just bringing it up as a consequence, given, as i said, i believe our cut off date is different

Edited by psuedo nim, 11 August 2016 - 11:07 PM.


#29 Expelliarmus

Posted 11 August 2016 - 11:06 PM

View Postkpingitquiet, on 11 August 2016 - 10:35 PM, said:

Our public school has already told us it's definitely happening for us but our principal is not a big fan as she still sees quite childlike personalities in the year 7s.
She must have verrrrrrry different Year 7s to all the ones I have known ... We have  Year 7 with a moustache, for crying out loud! He's actually a very scary individual for some of our little ones!!!!

#30 Overtherainbow

Posted 11 August 2016 - 11:53 PM

It's been changed in WA.  The biggest issues I've heard have been for country students who now have to leave home a year earlier and the governement promised to fund Year Sevens in Catholic Ed. at a HS level and then changed their mind.  Thankfully, they changed it again before school started.

My chn have both gone to Year Seven as part of a middle school.  Very different to my own schooling but not in a negative way, just different.

#31 .Jerry.

Posted 12 August 2016 - 06:32 AM

The space issue in high schools in Qld was sorted by a massive injection of funds to build new facilities in high schools.
Whilst there were fears of smaller schools numbers dropping and failing due to year 7s gone from primary, these fears were not realised and number-crunchers had worked out all would self-resolve within three years via population growth anyway.

The change-over was a non-event for us in primary schools really.
Our OSHC offered to have year 7 kids in their service (high school just up the road) but no year 7s enrolled after all.

#32 ~Jolly_F~

Posted 12 August 2016 - 08:58 AM

View Postpsuedo nim, on 11 August 2016 - 11:00 PM, said:

Many will be 11 for the first term. I would have personally been ok to catch busses at that age but im just bringing it up as a consequence, given, as i said, i believe our cut off date is different

Plenty of kids start high school at 11 in Qld, they can be 11 until June. Its a non issue.

#33 hills mum bec

Posted 12 August 2016 - 09:29 AM

View Postannodam, on 11 August 2016 - 09:49 PM, said:

I don't get what the issue is though?

Yr 7 has always been High School age around my parts, didn't know it was any different, to be honest.

Well of course there isn't an issue if that is what you are used to & you have never known any different.

Year 7 has always been primary school in SA and that is what we are used to.  People don't like change.  The change will also create a huge logistical nightmare, trying to find extra space in already full high schools for a whole new year level and primary schools finding their funding cut quite significantly when they lose a whole year level from their numbers.  It's certainly not as simple as saying "Everybody else does it, why can't you?"

#34 Lees75

Posted 13 August 2016 - 01:18 PM

This was on channel 9 news last night, as the Catholic education director confirmed the decision.

The state education minister said that there is no plans at this stage for public schools to follow and we can't afford the estimated 300 million it will cost to make it work.

#35 purplekitty

Posted 13 August 2016 - 01:33 PM

View Post~Jodama_Forever~, on 12 August 2016 - 08:58 AM, said:

Plenty of kids start high school at 11 in Qld, they can be 11 until June. Its a non issue.
I started Form One(Year 7) at 11 years old at high school in the 60s in Victoria,my children did Yr. 7 in primary school in Qld.

IMO, their Yr. 7 was too old to be in primary school,they would have been better off at the lower end of high school.

#36 somila

Posted 13 August 2016 - 01:34 PM

New multi-storey buildings solve the problem of "where will we fit them?".  
In QLD there were similar concerns as the ones people had with the prep year (e.g. my child is too young to be at high school), but no great backlash that I have noticed.
Our kids' old primary school OHSC had a handful of Year 7s from the local high school there last year.

Edited by somila, 13 August 2016 - 01:35 PM.


#37 annodam

Posted 13 August 2016 - 02:45 PM

^  Yep totally agree!

The rest of the Country has Yr 7s now at HS, but what would they know?

#38 Expelliarmus

Posted 13 August 2016 - 03:02 PM

Most high schools I know have several multi-storey buildings as it is. We generally agree that Yr7 should be in High School. Pretty much every teacher I have spoken to, the AEU and even the Department itself. It's not that we don't know it's a good idea or how to solve it logistically but the funding isn't there to transition it. Nor is the real estate. They've amalgamated and closed down a lot of schools and built superschools - getting rid of old Department sites.

It's going to take a big push from somewhere for bean counters to make it happen. I think the move by Catholic Ed might get the ball slowly rolling as it is inevitable. Eventually.

#39 born.a.girl

Posted 13 August 2016 - 03:06 PM

View PostVeritasVinum, on 11 August 2016 - 08:08 PM, said:

Year 7 always been first year of highschool for both NSW and VIC since at least the 1980s

Year 7 in Vic was first year of secondary for me in 1964.

#40 SeaPrincess

Posted 13 August 2016 - 03:09 PM

^^ The Catholic and other private schools in WA led the way here as well.

#41 dadwasathome

Posted 13 August 2016 - 03:23 PM

View Postborn.a.girl, on 13 August 2016 - 03:06 PM, said:



Year 7 in Vic was first year of secondary for me in 1964.

Yr7 in 1977 for me in NSW. For year it was renamed from First Form, so first year of hs for a long time in NSW.

I can see capacity arguments for the change inSA, and also have some sympathy for the middle school concept overall.

But I have 6'2" tall 13.5yo in yr8....

#42 unicycle

Posted 13 August 2016 - 03:30 PM

Do their Clas teachers go with them into the high schools and they follow the same curriculum as when they were in primary school? What then happens for specialist teachers? Do they find themselves at both the high school and primary, or with less works. I am beginning to see how complex this can all become.

#43 Lees75

Posted 13 August 2016 - 03:35 PM

View PostExpelliarmus, on 13 August 2016 - 03:02 PM, said:

Most high schools I know have several multi-storey buildings as it is. We generally agree that Yr7 should be in High School. Pretty much every teacher I have spoken to, the AEU and even the Department itself. It's not that we don't know it's a good idea or how to solve it logistically but the funding isn't there to transition it. Nor is the real estate. They've amalgamated and closed down a lot of schools and built superschools - getting rid of old Department sites.

It's going to take a big push from somewhere for bean counters to make it happen. I think the move by Catholic Ed might get the ball slowly rolling as it is inevitable. Eventually.
Totally agree. I'm from Vic originally, so the concept of Yr7 being at high school is not something unusual to me. It's more the logistics of the when, how and where that are concerning me.

There is a Lutheran school close to me that made the transition a year or so ago. There were a lot of very annoyed parents, because it effectively forced them in to starting their children at the sister high school, when they had had other plans for high school.

#44 .Jerry.

Posted 13 August 2016 - 03:36 PM

Transition of Year 7 to high school in Qld a few years ago was pretty smooth.
Gov't kicked in funding to build new facilities.
Schools made transition plans in consultation with their communities.
All went smoothly.

High school had to designate specific policies for "Junior Secondary", but I think it was pretty varied what happened.

In many cases the Year 7s have the same teacher for English/HASS; and Maths/Science.  Some continuity of teachers.  Better curriculum match to AC than can be provided in primary, especially in Science.

#45 SeaPrincess

Posted 13 August 2016 - 03:37 PM

View Postunicycle, on 13 August 2016 - 03:30 PM, said:

Do their Clas teachers go with them into the high schools and they follow the same curriculum as when they were in primary school? What then happens for specialist teachers? Do they find themselves at both the high school and primary, or with less works. I am beginning to see how complex this can all become.

From what we've seen as we've been looking at high schools for our eldest, it seems to be somewhere in between. The yr 7s do electives, as for high school, and move around to the relevant class locations, but core subjects are taught in homeroom groups, more like how it works in primary school. Our primary school didn't actually drop numbers even though we lost our year 7s so we kept all of our teachers. Presumably the high school got a few more though - I'm guessing they'd have had to accommodate 150-200 extra students from the 5 feeder schools, maybe more.

#46 Heather11

Posted 13 August 2016 - 03:37 PM

Quote

It's going to take a big push from somewhere for bean counters to make it happen. I think the move by Catholic Ed might get the ball slowly rolling as it is inevitable. Eventually.

I think the CEO decision might force the government's hand too.

While there are children who currently go to a Catholic Primary who won't go to a Catholic HS there are also those in the public primary system who intend to go to a Catholic HS.

DD's HS intake had quite a lot of public primary students.  In the future those families will have to decide if they leave public system at the end of year 6 or wait another year.

#47 Dionysus

Posted 13 August 2016 - 03:39 PM

Our grade 7 class teachers came with them, gradually being released more for specialist teachers to take the class (PE, tech studies, science..) and skilling 'up' the yr 7 teachers to take yr 8's and 9's.

One of ours was middle school trained anyway.

The biggest problem was the competing (conflicting) primary v secondary EBA in terms of contact time etc.

#48 hills mum bec

Posted 13 August 2016 - 03:41 PM

View Postannodam, on 13 August 2016 - 02:45 PM, said:

^  Yep totally agree!

The rest of the Country has Yr 7s now at HS, but what would they know?

I don't think anybody is saying it isn't a good idea and doesn't make sense.  I'm certainly not saying my precious DS/DD is too young to be in high school in year 7.  My biggest concern is the logistics of the change.  Public schools are so severely underfunded as it is (especially the high schools), I don't know where the money would come from to fund this.  Would the benefits of having year 7s in high school outweigh the monetary expense?  I'm not a teacher so I don't know a lot about the problems of delivering a year 7 curriculum in primary school but I'm not sure if it's worth the cost.  If it's not broken then why try to fix it?  The whole "other states do it, so should we" is not a good enough justification.

#49 Lesley225

Posted 13 August 2016 - 03:47 PM

View Postborn.a.girl, on 13 August 2016 - 03:06 PM, said:

Year 7 in Vic was first year of secondary for me in 1964.

Would it not have been 1st form then?  When I went into year 7 it had only changed from 1st form a couple of years before.  This was in the middle late 70s in NSW.

What was the reason for year 7 being in primary ( and when i was in primary it was def 6th class - not sure when it changed) in SA and other states?

#50 FloralArrangement

Posted 13 August 2016 - 03:51 PM

View PostHeather11, on 13 August 2016 - 03:37 PM, said:



I think the CEO decision might force the government's hand too.

While there are children who currently go to a Catholic Primary who won't go to a Catholic HS there are also those in the public primary system who intend to go to a Catholic HS.

DD's HS intake had quite a lot of public primary students.  In the future those families will have to decide if they leave public system at the end of year 6 or wait another year.

Exactly my thinking.




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