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? re "Non Agency" Child Support payments


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#1 Moneypenny2014

Posted 02 February 2017 - 09:54 AM

Just wondering if anyone has any experience with Non Agency Child Support payments?
DP is paying an enormous amount in CS for his 2 teenage children (17 & 15) who live 100% of the time with their mother.
Without going into a huge amount of detail and the logistics of trying to change % care arrangements he works shift work both night and day, shifts are 16 hours long including travel time and he works 5-6 shifts a week. He leaves at 3:30am and gets home at 8pm and for night shifts he leaves at 3:30pm and gets home at 8am.
These hours coupled with the kids schooling make overnight stays incredibly difficult if not impossible to co-ordinate, so instead he takes them out to breakfast before school when coming off a night shift or out for dinner when coming off a day shift at 8pm (and having to leave again at 3:30am hence the reason they don't stay overnight).
Anyway, as mentioned above he is paying a huge amount in child support and on top of this he is constantly giving the children copious amounts of money (in my opinion) to assist buying clothes, food, phone credit and the total cost to him is getting beyond a joke.
His 17 y/o DD works casually at a Cafe and aside from a small amount of food that she eats at home - mostly just breakfast as she is generally out and about having dinner with friends, she has to pay for anything she needs herself from the income she earns - from clothes to shoes, hair cuts, Doctors visits.
DP cannot afford to continue paying both CS as well as giving the kids extra money (he already has to work 2 overtime shifts in order to be able to afford to pay the CS in the first place) but at the same time he does not want to not give his children money for shoes or clothes or food because none of this is their fault and someone should be providing for them.
I heard about Non Agency Payments and am wondering if anyone else is experienced with these and what can you claim?
I suggested to DP that he keep receipts for various things and make a note of each time he gives the kids money and claim it back against Child Support.
Apparently he can claim up to 30% of the CS figure.
The mother is certainly not struggling for money in the slightest and spends most weekends away with her new partner - leaving the kids at home to look after themselves. They are certainly old enough to do this given the eldest is not far off 18, however once again no money is ever left for them and DP obliges with cash handouts to buy food every weekend.
Any suggestions would be sincerely appreciated.
Not looking to start any discussions on ex husbands that should pay up - he is not looking to get out of it, he simply feels that the CS that he pays should cover all these "extras" he is also paying for and if some of it can be claimed then at least the children wont miss out.
It is getting to the point financially where he cannot afford it but does not want the children to go without.

#2 Kafkaesque

Posted 02 February 2017 - 10:07 AM

How is cs currently worked out? Has it been calculated by CSA? If so then that's what he needs to pay. If he wants to give them extra then that's his choice.

As for all the comments about the daughter paying for her own things there is still housing costs that their mother is covering.

Is it you that feels this is a excessive or your DP? Your post comes across as it being more if an issue for you than him.

#3 Moneypenny2014

Posted 02 February 2017 - 10:23 AM

CS is currently as calculated by CSA.
We both think the figure is excessive but its upsetting him way more than me. He is my partner but our finances are completely separate - his $$ do not affect me at all.
I find the figure extremely excessive given I have 4 children of my own (3 are teenagers) and know first hand what they cost.
The figure he is paying is double, if not triple what is necessary and that does not take into consideration that realistically she should be contributing financially to their upbringing as well.

#4 moc84

Posted 02 February 2017 - 10:28 AM

But she is contributing too? emotionally and financially. He is obviously earning a decent amount and as he doesn't do overnights her cost percentage is 100%? Maybe she doesn't work or earn a good wage. Its up to him to say no. Who knows what the kids are telling dad, maybe mum is leaving them prepared foods and they don't like it or she is buying them clothes but because they aren't the "cool" clothes they are asking dad. Ultimately its up to him to say no. I don't think him buying a few meals out of 21 meals a week will count as a non agency payment.

#5 Fresh Start

Posted 02 February 2017 - 10:29 AM

If he stopped the extra shifts his child support would drop. He doesn't have to work more "just" to pay the child support, it is calculated on his income, drop the income the payments will drop.

As to non agency payments I thought the payee had to agree to count them? I'm sure it will be on the website somewhere.

ETA
Here we go, everything you need to know
https://www.humanser...hild-support#a3

Reading that it seems the types of things he is doing she would have to agree are NAP's.

Edited by Nasty Start, 02 February 2017 - 10:34 AM.


#6 Moneypenny2014

Posted 02 February 2017 - 10:59 AM

I don't agree that she is contributing either emotionally or financially anywhere near adequately.
They have 2 older DD's as well (22 and 26) and both of the older girls have told their mother that the CS figure is excessive and that she is being greedy and taking advantage of the situation and that the figure is no where near what she is spending on providing for them.
I have 4 children myself and provide for them all on my own (with the exception of $20 a month I receive in CS). My 4 children combined do not even cost what DP is paying per fortnight in CS for 2 kids.
And she is earning quite a lot more than I am.

#7 Moneypenny2014

Posted 02 February 2017 - 11:03 AM

Sadly he does have to work the extra shifts as he has financial commitments he must pay for aside from CS.
For the record here (in case anyone assumes that I take or use part of his wage which I don't) I have my own salary and mortgage which has nothing to do with DP and again I am self sufficient.
I do not think that he should have to sell and forgo everything he owns in order to be able to afford to drop his income low enough because of CS.

#8 moc84

Posted 02 February 2017 - 11:13 AM

Its tough, there seems to be the extremes, the dads/mums paying and paying a lot the the dads/mums dodging the system and not paying enough, Unfortunately I think his only choice is to stop paying so much on the extra stuff, the kids are old enough to understand that he cant afford it. Good luck!

#9 Moneypenny2014

Posted 02 February 2017 - 11:14 AM

Thank you moc84 it is about all he can do, I just hope they don't then think he is the bad guy because he is far from it. He provides for all of his children (including the two that are older and live away from home) exceptionally well. He is always so generous to them and does anything he can to help them.
This week his 22 year old didnt quite have enough money to register her car. She is a really hard worker and was taking on extra shifts to help but didnt quite get there. He ended up secretly depositing $300 into her account for which she was hugely grateful.
He loves providing for his kids but its sad when he is one of those bad cases where he is taken advantage of and the kids dont actually receive it....

Edited by Moneypenny2014, 02 February 2017 - 11:17 AM.


#10 Tinkle Splashes

Posted 02 February 2017 - 11:29 AM

Hi OP, PP's have given you good advice about the availability of non-agency payments.

I just wanted to say that I understand where you are coming from.  My DP is in a similar situation with being assessed to pay 100% of costs (due to the kids living across the country from us) and having to pay a lot of CS ($25k+) plus a lot of additional money to spend time with his kids ($1.5k minimum in travel expenses alone, every time we see them).  We have the additional costs of family court proceedings at the moment too.

I try not to think about it.

#11 Crazyhouseholdof6

Posted 02 February 2017 - 11:35 AM

CSA calculate what is needed to pay and he can't claim any expenses to reduce that amount without her approval or something silly like that. It's a horrible situation (speaking from experience here) but the only way he will improve his financial situation is to stop giving the kids any extra money. He might the bad guy in their eyes for a while but if it's the difference between living his own life and theirs, he might not have a choice.

Edited by Crazyhouseholdof6, 02 February 2017 - 11:39 AM.


#12 steppy

Posted 02 February 2017 - 11:36 AM

If the mother is not paying for Doctors and clothing then your DP should stop giving extra support now, tell his kids, who are quite old, how much he gives her to look after them and tell them it's better they find out who she is now.

I would still take them to the Doctor as yes, this can be claimed as a non agency payment. If she has 100% care and is not doing this as necessary, CSA will rule that any doctor's payments can come out of his payment to her. It is her responsbility.

When you have 100% custody, you are 100% responsible for all costs. He is fulfilling his responsibilities by paying the correct CS and seeing them as he can. He is already paying for his children, he should not be compensating them for their mother's failure to parent effectively. He is enabling the mother. Next time they call about having no food, get DOCS to do a welfare check on them. No doubt there will be food there, just food they don't like.

Edited by steppy, 02 February 2017 - 11:43 AM.


#13 Moneypenny2014

Posted 02 February 2017 - 11:38 AM

Tinkle Splashes I truly feel for you both :(
DP's CS amount is very similar however he doesnt have the added costs of travel that you do. No doubt your DP is the one that has to pay it all as well...

#14 steppy

Posted 02 February 2017 - 11:45 AM

If he really feels bad about the food, drop them a loaf of bread and a 6 pack of baked beans. They have water in the house. A weekend on toast and beans won't kill them. DO NOT give them cash money - EVER.

He can also order online from Coles or Woolies and have the food delivered.

Again - never cash money.

I'm willing to bet the requests dry up if he starts paying the actual bill rather than handing cash over. Make sure the food is really limited though or their mother may start handing them her grocery list and getting that delivered via your husband.

Edited by steppy, 02 February 2017 - 11:48 AM.


#15 Tinkle Splashes

Posted 02 February 2017 - 12:32 PM

View PostMoneypenny2014, on 02 February 2017 - 11:38 AM, said:

Tinkle Splashes I truly feel for you both :(
DP's CS amount is very similar however he doesnt have the added costs of travel that you do. No doubt your DP is the one that has to pay it all as well...

At the moment, yes.  After the court decision, hopefully the travel costs will be shared. :/

#16 Eggg

Posted 02 February 2017 - 12:36 PM

How much does he pay OP?

#17 IamtheMumma

Posted 02 February 2017 - 01:09 PM

I suspect that the kids are pulling one over on him and playing on his guilt, hence he forks out more money. I'd be calling BS on the no food thing. It might be its not food that meets their criteria (aka not KFC, coffee club sandwich, thai etc) and they have to make something themselves. Much easier to twist dad's guilt and go out for dinner.

Is he able to have a discussion with their mum and point out that the kids are hitting him up for extras. I know I'd be ropeable if my kids where telling the ex they had no food when it wasn't true.

#18 Tinkle Splashes

Posted 02 February 2017 - 01:14 PM

View PostIamtheMumma, on 02 February 2017 - 01:09 PM, said:

Is he able to have a discussion with their mum and point out that the kids are hitting him up for extras. I know I'd be ropeable if my kids where telling the ex they had no food when it wasn't true.

Actually my DS did this once - told my ex that he didn't have breakfast because there was no food in our house.  I replied with a long list of allllll the many food options that DS could have eaten for breakfast.  I didn't get a reply :rofl:

#19 -Emissary-

Posted 02 February 2017 - 07:48 PM

I'm sorry but at those ages, if he's so worried about the welfare of his kids then I think he should consider asking them to live with him. If they're already being left on their own at their mothers and are fine then why exactly can't they stay with your partner?

If this is all money then tell him stop giving it if it's putting him into financial stress.

#20 Bone Apple Tea

Posted 02 February 2017 - 08:04 PM

View PostMoneypenny2014, on 02 February 2017 - 10:59 AM, said:

I don't agree that she is contributing either emotionally or financially anywhere near adequately.
They have 2 older DD's as well (22 and 26) and both of the older girls have told their mother that the CS figure is excessive and that she is being greedy and taking advantage of the situation and that the figure is no where near what she is spending on providing for them.
I have 4 children myself and provide for them all on my own (with the exception of $20 a month I receive in CS). My 4 children combined do not even cost what DP is paying per fortnight in CS for 2 kids.
And she is earning quite a lot more than I am.

Child support isn't really related to how much it costs to raise a child though. If it was based on the actual costs to raise a child, there wouldn't be any nil or low value assessments.

CSA is calculated by applying a formula to the parent's incomes after deducting a self supporting amount.  From what I can make out, the main factors affecting the calculation are time spent with each parent and the difference between the parent's incomes.  You have hinted that he is paying in the vicinity of $25k per annum for two children in 100% care of his ex.  At one stage, I was getting slightly more than that for four children with 100% care and my ex was earning approx $100k  per annum more than me.   For the amount of child support owing to be be just under double what I was getting per child, he must be earning significantly more than his ex wife and on a very high income.  The rationale the child support agency appear to apply is that if the parents were still together, the kid would be benefiting from both incomes (they put that pretty well word for word in a response to my change of assessment application).

In terms of him paying extra, I agree with what everyone else has said.  It is likely the kids are playing him.  He can either say no, or offer to buy them groceries.

Edited by Bone Apple Tea, 02 February 2017 - 08:08 PM.


#21 DanceMom

Posted 02 February 2017 - 08:13 PM

View PostMoneypenny2014, on 02 February 2017 - 11:14 AM, said:

Thank you moc84 it is about all he can do, I just hope they don't then think he is the bad guy because he is far from it. He provides for all of his children (including the two that are older and live away from home) exceptionally well. He is always so generous to them and does anything he can to help them.
This week his 22 year old didnt quite have enough money to register her car. She is a really hard worker and was taking on extra shifts to help but didnt quite get there. He ended up secretly depositing $300 into her account for which she was hugely grateful.
He loves providing for his kids but its sad when he is one of those bad cases where he is taken advantage of and the kids dont actually receive it....

This is all nice and everything him giving her money for rego but she is 22. Rego is due every year (or every 6 months depending on when you pay) she needs to save up for it well in advance so she isn't short when it comes around. My stepdad is the same, will often help out his daughter when she's short except she started getting hair extensions, makeup and new clothes then going to her dad and saying she needed money for rent, food etc. He has done her no favours by not letting her adult and figure out stuff herself

#22 IamtheMumma

Posted 02 February 2017 - 08:25 PM

View PostTinkle Splashes, on 02 February 2017 - 01:14 PM, said:

Actually my DS did this once - told my ex that he didn't have breakfast because there was no food in our house.  I replied with a long list of allllll the many food options that DS could have eaten for breakfast.  I didn't get a reply :rofl:

My eldest has done something similar but with the school canteen!! Kids can be manipulative little turds when they want to be.

#23 Franny and Zooey

Posted 04 February 2017 - 02:36 PM

View Poststeppy, on 02 February 2017 - 11:36 AM, said:


When you have 100% custody, you are 100% responsible for all costs. He is fulfilling his responsibilities by paying the correct CS and seeing them as he can.

Revolting statement and why some parents just shouldn't be parents!  "I am just paying some money and seeing you when I can" - the kids would be better off without them.

#24 bakesgirls

Posted 04 February 2017 - 03:09 PM

View PostFranny and Zooey, on 04 February 2017 - 02:36 PM, said:

Revolting statement and why some parents just shouldn't be parents!  "I am just paying some money and seeing you when I can" - the kids would be better off without them.

So as a parent of 3 children with my XH, and 100% care of them, would it make me someone that shouldn't have kids because I agree with Steppy? Perhaps my daughters would be better off without me as you seem to think by that statement even though I am the receiving parent.

My XH rarely pays child support, in fact he
has done everything humanly possible to avoid it including quitting his jobs when CSA tracks him down. He rarely bothers seeing or contacting our children and does so just enough to remind them that he still exists before he buggers off again.

In the whole 3 years that this has been going on so far I have always maintained that he has met his legal obligations if he pays the correct amount of child support yearly, even if it is because CSA and the ATO have forcibly taken it from him via his tax return.

Morals and ethics around this are totally separate issues. But as far as I'm concerned as long as all legal obligations are met, there's not much else you can do. The line has to drawn somewhere.

#25 Booklooker

Posted 04 February 2017 - 07:11 PM

OP if the eldest is due to turn 18 soon, things should (theoretically) become somewhat easier for him




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