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Confusion over FTB government changes


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#1 Rockwiz

Posted 08 February 2017 - 11:34 AM

In the news today there is talk about the govt making more changes to FTB payments. I haven't even got my head around the changes from a few months back! It is so confusing. Can someone give me some answers on the following:

FTB)B)
Edited - I think I've worked this one out so forget this question. It's only for 13 years or older if you are a single parent I believe.

FTB supplements.
I was under the impression only those families which had combined incomes under $80K would receive the supplements from now on. Now the government is talking about removing the supplements for everyone and giving all recipients an extra $20 per fortnight per child in FTB part A. So will this mean we lose the supplement for this year (those above combined $80K) but come July get extra money per fortnight, even if our income is just over the $80K mark? Or has the legislation for the $80k limit on the supplements not gone through parliament yet either?

Edited by Rockwiz, 08 February 2017 - 11:55 AM.


#2 Fresh Start

Posted 08 February 2017 - 02:00 PM

The 80k thing passed, so for 16/17 fin year only those with income $80000 or under will get part A supplement.

FTB supplement not affected by that change,

The increased payment and no supplement at all going forward seems to have only come up yesterday/today so short on detail.

ETA
Reading the ABC article I'd say they'll increase the max rate by $20pf so the income test will reduce that for anyone over $51000 ish.

Edited by Nasty Start, 08 February 2017 - 02:02 PM.


#3 Furfeathersfleece

Posted 08 February 2017 - 02:08 PM

*sigh* if we lose the supplements there goes all our Christmas present spending.  Not sure what we will do without it.

#4 Fresh Start

Posted 08 February 2017 - 02:13 PM

Save the max $20pf you will get in exchange. (Sarcasm).

Write to or phone your senator, particularly the cross benchers. Register your dissent.

#5 JRA

Posted 08 February 2017 - 02:13 PM

Quote

*sigh* if we lose the supplements there goes all our Christmas present spending.  Not sure what we will do without it.


My understanding it was being replaced with $20/ft per child, that is $520 / child, how much was the supplement? Surely it is better to have the money in your hand each month?

#6 Fresh Start

Posted 08 February 2017 - 02:14 PM

Supplement is $726.35.

There is a spectacular lack of detail but I'd bet that the $20 will be added to max rate so only those on combined family incomes under $51000 ish will actually get $20pf.

#7 Jack's Mummy

Posted 08 February 2017 - 02:28 PM

All we used to get was the supplements (well a portion of it anyway) for the 4 kids.

A couple of years ago we would get a few k as we claimed at the end of the financial year, now even with the extra child I doubt we will get anything.

Yes I know we are lucky to be this fortunate but damn it used to help us out alot.

The childcare changes however I wish I could figure out how much it will cost me for my children. I cant really get alot other than I will receive a sliding scale %....

#8 Furfeathersfleece

Posted 08 February 2017 - 02:39 PM

We won't get the full $20pfn but even if we did it equates to less than the supplement. Plus that lump sum is of more use to us as we are more likely to spend $10 a week whereas a lumpsum can just sit in a separate account until Christmas.

Yes we could transfer that <$20pfn to a savings account each f/n but it's a hassle and we will still be significantly less well off than we are receiving the supplements.  

I'm all for reform for childcare but just wish they could do it without penalizing those who rely on ftb supps.

Edited by Furfeathersfleece, 08 February 2017 - 02:42 PM.


#9 JRA

Posted 08 February 2017 - 03:03 PM

See I really struggle, if you need the money, you need it. Therefore having it each fortnight should be better. If you don't need the money and want to save it, then save it.

#10 Furfeathersfleece

Posted 08 February 2017 - 03:10 PM

Are you referring to me JRA? I don't see how you can think that having less money pa is better for my family.

And yes, we actually need it, but I don't think it unreasonable that I consider having money for Christmas presents as as necessary as our weekly expenditure. My kids deserve a gift same as anyone's, and I like to reciprocate extended family gift giving.  

We aren't extravagant spenders at christmas but we do like to give gifts. For us, that is of much greater benefit than an extra  $5- $10 each week.

#11 SelceLisbeth

Posted 08 February 2017 - 03:19 PM

But for those of us at the bottom of the income scale, the extra fortnightly $ makes life more manageable, even if its less of a lump sum.

Not saying I agree with everyone losing out. I very much dont. But if that was your xmas club money, then that is workable. For me, its school fees and uniform money, or car rego and insurance money.

No one is saying its fair because it isnt and no one is saying your kids shouldnt get to enjoy xmas (no one 'deserves' presents, thats kind of the point).

#12 JRA

Posted 08 February 2017 - 03:23 PM

Thanks, that is what I was trying to get at.

#13 Furfeathersfleece

Posted 08 February 2017 - 03:23 PM

Every family is different.  Money is tight weekly for us but we get by as we are (without there being slack in the budget).

Personally the lump sum of a greater total amount benefits us more than a very small fortnightly increase.

JRA is making an assumption that fortnightly payments are more beneficial. I'm just saying that that's not the case for everyone.  Especially when they equal less money in my pocket annually. Don't see how that's helpful?

#14 JRA

Posted 08 February 2017 - 03:39 PM

I think people will often feel that those who are really struggling, and need the money fortnightly are the ones that need to be cared for most.

Yes, it would be great if it was the same amount as the supplement. But I thought not everyone got the supplement. it was designed if you had been overpaid, your supplement was reduced.

Paying it fortnightly does not take away the lump sum aspect, you don't have to spend it. But paying it as a lump sum does hurt those who do need it fortnightly.

#15 SelceLisbeth

Posted 08 February 2017 - 03:41 PM

OK, Ill try again. No one at all is saying less of this supplement is better.

I (and JRA) am saying that for me that $5 to $10 more a week makes a difference and it will make a bigger difference to those at the bottom of the income scale than it would to people who rely on it for extras (and yes, sorry, xmas is an extra).

No one benefits more from having less over all, as you say and I agree. But if it came down to us all getting the now $520 annually or as part of the fn payment, Id pick fn payment so I could make ends meet. Most people under the poverty line would do the same.

#16 FeralZombieMum

Posted 08 February 2017 - 03:44 PM

View PostNasty Start, on 08 February 2017 - 02:14 PM, said:

There is a spectacular lack of detail but I'd bet that the $20 will be added to max rate so only those on combined family incomes under $51000 ish will actually get $20pf.

If that's the case - then we are going to end up with a tiered system,

Those just under $51,000 will be better off than those just above $51,000.

plus we now have
those just below $80,000 are better off than those just above $80,000
(say you are on $79,500 and have 4 kids - you get 4 times the FTB A Supplement. If you are on $80,500 - you miss out on those supplements, and are worse off.)

It used to be a fairer system - no matter what you earnt, some below you weren't going to be better off.
(with the exception of those on a health care card - there has always been an issue that those who earnt just below to qualify for the health care card, are better off than those who earn just a little bit too much - depends on your health care needs though)

Now it's been butchered a lot more, has been made unfair for some groups, and is complicated. It is no longer a simple system.

It wouldn't surprise me if in a year or two, the current government will want to scale back the FTB for lower income earners, because they will then be able to demonstrate how some with a lower income are financially better off than those who "work" and "earn" more. This time they won't be manipulating the data like they did with the last budget, but will be speaking the truth.

#17 Furfeathersfleece

Posted 08 February 2017 - 03:53 PM

I'm glad that some will benefit from the new system.

Was simply saying it doesn't serve my family well.

#18 SelceLisbeth

Posted 08 February 2017 - 03:58 PM

No one is really benefitting when we are all losing out and I am sorry that you feel hard done by.

#19 Fresh Start

Posted 08 February 2017 - 04:23 PM

Heaven forbid they should stop targetting low income families at all. How about we target business and wealthy people? Oh that's the LNP demographic, that's right, can't touch them.

#20 arc en ciel

Posted 08 February 2017 - 04:28 PM

View PostFurfeathersfleece, on 08 February 2017 - 02:08 PM, said:

*sigh* if we lose the supplements there goes all our Christmas present spending.  Not sure what we will do without it.

You can always claim your FTB at the end of the FY and receive it as a lump sum if you feel you can't save $20 a fortnight throughout the year. You have a year to do it so can do it close to Christmas. Of course you'll have to spend less through the year as it affects all your payments.

#21 FeralZombieMum

Posted 08 February 2017 - 04:38 PM

The supplement was introduced to help lower income families pay off any centrelink debt when their reconciliation was done. It was a safety net - and I know quite a few families who were saved by it.

View PostFurfeathersfleece, on 08 February 2017 - 03:23 PM, said:

Every family is different.  Money is tight weekly for us but we get by as we are (without there being slack in the budget).

Personally the lump sum of a greater total amount benefits us more than a very small fortnightly increase.

I do agree with the "every family is different". We always found the supplement payments helped a great deal.

For us, we've always used it as a 'forced savings' - and many times it was used to pay the remainder of the school fees, or was used to fix our car. We found that it was hard to put money aside for savings, when living week to week, so it worked well for us.
(first year the supplement came out - I hadn't paid ANY school fees for that year because I'd had high medical fees. We did have savings put aside for school fees, but dipped into it for medication and specialist visits).
It was such a godsend when I got those first supps in July/August and was able to pay the school. The next year my car was off the road for 6 weeks because we had no spare money, fortunately it was in June/July - so I got it fixed with my supp payments.

View PostJRA, on 08 February 2017 - 03:39 PM, said:

Paying it fortnightly does not take away the lump sum aspect, you don't have to spend it. But paying it as a lump sum does hurt those who do need it fortnightly.

When you get an extra $20 in your pocket each fortnight, some people are more likely to spend it, and not put it aside as savings. It tends to get eaten up, without you realising. (heck - we've had a significant increase in our fortnightly budget and it's easy to find ways to spend it on 'essential' expenses.)

Plus - at the end of the day, the proposal means families are now getting less per year, regardless of how they are getting it (ie fortnightly or lump sum) - families with both working parents, and kids in childcare will win from this (apparently) - but those who cannot work, and have kids with special needs and don't use childcare - they are being penalised.

#22 ~Kestrel~

Posted 08 February 2017 - 04:39 PM

If you are overpaid FTB it is currently deducted from the supplements. So if the supplements are to be replaced with an extra $20 a fortnight, will any overpayment of FTB be deducted from fortnightly payments over the following financial year?

#23 Fresh Start

Posted 08 February 2017 - 04:52 PM

View Post~Kestrel~, on 08 February 2017 - 04:39 PM, said:

If you are overpaid FTB it is currently deducted from the supplements. So if the supplements are to be replaced with an extra $20 a fortnight, will any overpayment of FTB be deducted from fortnightly payments over the following financial year?

That already happens if your debt exceeds supplements/tax refund.

#24 ~Kestrel~

Posted 08 February 2017 - 05:04 PM

View PostNasty Start, on 08 February 2017 - 04:52 PM, said:

That already happens if your debt exceeds supplements/tax refund.
Do they spread out the deductions across the whole year?

#25 Heather11

Posted 08 February 2017 - 05:15 PM

View PostFeralZombieMum, on 08 February 2017 - 04:38 PM, said:

The supplement was introduced to help lower income families pay off any centrelink debt when their reconciliation was done. It was a safety net - and I know quite a few families who were saved by it.



I do agree with the "every family is different". We always found the supplement payments helped a great deal.

For us, we've always used it as a 'forced savings' - and many times it was used to pay the remainder of the school fees, or was used to fix our car. We found that it was hard to put money aside for savings, when living week to week, so it worked well for us.
(first year the supplement came out - I hadn't paid ANY school fees for that year because I'd had high medical fees. We did have savings put aside for school fees, but dipped into it for medication and specialist visits).
It was such a godsend when I got those first supps in July/August and was able to pay the school. The next year my car was off the road for 6 weeks because we had no spare money, fortunately it was in June/July - so I got it fixed with my supp payments.



When you get an extra $20 in your pocket each fortnight, some people are more likely to spend it, and not put it aside as savings. It tends to get eaten up, without you realising. (heck - we've had a significant increase in our fortnightly budget and it's easy to find ways to spend it on 'essential' expenses.)

Plus - at the end of the day, the proposal means families are now getting less per year, regardless of how they are getting it (ie fortnightly or lump sum) - families with both working parents, and kids in childcare will win from this (apparently) - but those who cannot work, and have kids with special needs and don't use childcare - they are being penalised.

We've also done similar.  One year it was tyres for the car, another a mattress for our bed and another time a new fridge.  I couldn't believe how much longer fresh fruit and vege lasted in a fridge that actually worked properly.  Not to mention the energy savings.

So much easier to easier to know that in July/August we would receive this amount of money that we could then use on the big purchases required.




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