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Would you sleeve at 34 BMI


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#51 Soontobegran

Posted 30 June 2017 - 07:54 AM

View PostFiveAus, on 29 June 2017 - 06:22 PM, said:



So is bariatric surgery. Pavlova goes down easier than vegetables apparently.
Except you will only have a mouthful and not a plateful.
Portion size is important.

#52 FiveAus

Posted 30 June 2017 - 08:04 AM

View PostSoontobegran, on 30 June 2017 - 07:47 AM, said:

Perhaps it's more of a reflection on the surgeon and the hospital because this is not the norm.
If she is talking about gastric bands being removed in favour of a sleeve the yes...... But most surgeons do not recommend bands anymore because of this.

No, she was talking about gastric sleeves, as in very recent surgery. She called them "take backs" then explained that it means a return visit or two to the operating theatre after the initial surgery. She's worked in both public and private hospitals, so not for one specific surgeon. She's moved to another city and another hospital this year so I'll ask her again in a few months if she's seeing the same pattern.

#53 FiveAus

Posted 30 June 2017 - 08:09 AM

View PostSoontobegran, on 30 June 2017 - 07:54 AM, said:

Except you will only have a mouthful and not a plateful.
Portion size is important.

Seeing as the person who is eating the pav rather than the vegetables after bariatric surgery is still very obviously obese more than a year after the surgery, I'd say she's eating more than a mouthful. She thought it would be an instant fix and of course, it's not. She explained it's very difficult to keep some foods down, but soft, light foods like pav, ice cream etc, go down and stay down. And when you think about it, a bowlful of pav is mostly air and calories. Lots and lots of both.

#54 Soontobegran

Posted 30 June 2017 - 08:39 AM

View PostFiveAus, on 30 June 2017 - 08:09 AM, said:



Seeing as the person who is eating the pav rather than the vegetables after bariatric surgery is still very obviously obese more than a year after the surgery, I'd say she's eating more than a mouthful. She thought it would be an instant fix and of course, it's not. She explained it's very difficult to keep some foods down, but soft, light foods like pav, ice cream etc, go down and stay down. And when you think about it, a bowlful of pav is mostly air and calories. Lots and lots of both.

It's nothing to do with what goes down or not with a sleeve. Are you talking about a band?
Everything will go down....... It is that the volume is affected.
Those people I know with successful sleeves do NOT crave the sweets and fats anymore due to the portion of the stomach being removed in a vertical sleeve gastrectomy which contains the hunger hormone Ghrelin.

Edited by Soontobegran, 30 June 2017 - 08:50 AM.


#55 Soontobegran

Posted 30 June 2017 - 08:44 AM

This thread is extremely irritating . Stop trying to stop people being proactive about their weight loss.

If you wouldn't do it yourself then just say no but endless negative anecdotes add nothing to the conversation as there are as many positive outcomes.



#56 livvie7586

Posted 30 June 2017 - 08:56 AM

OP, i wouldn't personally, yet.  And my bmi is up in the 34s.

My liver function is terrible atm, and my cholesterol is high.  Things hurt that shouldn't, and I'm 31.  

I've been going to boot camp/a pt now for 7 weeks, and i started a meal plan last week (low carb, high protein).  People around me seem to think I'm loosing weight, although i can't see it yet.

However this is my first attempt, my first ever diet, so i don't know what I'd do if I'd done this multiple times and it had had no effect.  I'd probably consider the weight loss surgery.

It's a decision only you can make.

#57 FiveAus

Posted 30 June 2017 - 09:05 AM

View PostSoontobegran, on 30 June 2017 - 08:39 AM, said:

It's nothing to do with what goes down or not with a sleeve. Are you talking about a band?
Everything will go down....... It is that the volume is affected.
Those people I know with successful sleeves do NOT crave the sweets and fats anymore due to the portion of the stomach being removed in a vertical sleeve gastrectomy which contains the hunger hormone Ghrelin.

I'm only going on what the person who had the surgery has told me. She lost weight initially and failed to keep most of it off. She still eats lots of really crap food, and this is why she hasn't kept the weight off. I assumed it was a sleeve because I don't think it's reversible.

Someone else I know had the sleeve surgery late last year and initially lost a lot of weight. I saw her recently and a lot has gone back on, due in part I believe, to alcohol consumption.

The OP sounds pretty convinced the surgery is for her. Me, wild horses wouldn't drag me there, even though I've been seriously overweight for years until this year. Now I'm not overweight, didn't get there with surgery but with the right mindset. And I actually think you need that "lightbulb moment" even if you have surgery which a lot of people assume is the easy option. I don't think it is though.

#58 FiveAus

Posted 30 June 2017 - 09:09 AM

View PostSoontobegran, on 30 June 2017 - 08:44 AM, said:

This thread is extremely irritating . Stop trying to stop people being proactive about their weight loss.

If you wouldn't do it yourself then just say no but endless negative anecdotes add nothing to the conversation as there are as many positive outcomes.

The last line of the opening post is "Would it work?"

Sometimes it doesn't. That's what the negative anecdotes are addressing. Sometimes, it does not work.

#59 halcyondays

Posted 30 June 2017 - 09:29 AM

Any surgery in morbidly obese has a high complication rate, especially abdominal surgery. could be what your anaesthetic nurse is noticing, and extrapolating it to bariatric surgery alone.
Again- have you tried Saxenda?

#60 Soontobegran

Posted 30 June 2017 - 09:51 AM

View PostFiveAus, on 30 June 2017 - 09:05 AM, said:



I'm only going on what the person who had the surgery has told me. She lost weight initially and failed to keep most of it off. She still eats lots of really crap food, and this is why she hasn't kept the weight off. I assumed it was a sleeve because I don't think it's reversible.

Someone else I know had the sleeve surgery late last year and initially lost a lot of weight. I saw her recently and a lot has gone back on, due in part I believe, to alcohol consumption.

The OP sounds pretty convinced the surgery is for her. Me, wild horses wouldn't drag me there, even though I've been seriously overweight for years until this year. Now I'm not overweight, didn't get there with surgery but with the right mindset. And I actually think you need that "lightbulb moment" even if you have surgery which a lot of people assume is the easy option. I don't think it is though.

I find the comment about the lightbulb moment to be insinuating that those who have chosen surgery to have not had that 'moment' when in fact they have.
For them they have explored other options and even perhaps had lightbulb moments beforehand only to have had it fail.
The chance of long term weight loss is dismally small statistically, most people who choose bariatric surgery have already lost hundreds of kilograms over their lifetime but have gained it back plus some.
There are people who I admire who are able to make changes to their lifestyle and maintain their weight loss in the long term without surgery, there are those who can't but this does not mean they haven't tried.
Sometimes people just know that despite their best efforts they will not be able to do it and choose surgery....... They get no judgement from me for doing so.
We repeatedly read that the " sleeve is permanent" yet as this thread shows it isn't because people can make it fail. I think we need to decide what it is.

There is no doubt that surgeons should be very thorough before saying yes but unfortunately it seems that some do a very loose psych assessment where the patient will say exactly what they know the surgeon wants to hear instead of being sent to a decent psych who will do a significant back history before ticking the box.

#61 FiveAus

Posted 30 June 2017 - 10:35 AM

I don't especially care if someone gets surgery or not. I worry that they see it as an "easy" option, which it definitely is not. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. The people fronting up for the surgery are in a high risk category anyway, so things can and do go wrong. This shouldn't be glossed over.

In the last 6-8 months I've been following a few weight loss forums and FB groups, especially Weight Watchers. There are a percentage of people who start anything (including surgery), with the mindset that it's going to be a quick fix then continue with their unhealthy lifestyle while all their friends encourage them with words like "Be kind to yourself". And so they keep being "kind" to themselves while their chosen weight loss platform doesn't work. They need to change, and the change needs to be a lifestyle, even if it's surgery. That's the lightbulb moment...the realisation that this is forever.

#62 lizzzard

Posted 30 June 2017 - 11:15 AM

It seems pretty logical that wether it works will be difficult to say up front but it definitely wont if you don't try it!

#63 Beqa

Posted 30 June 2017 - 12:09 PM

View PostSoontobegran, on 30 June 2017 - 07:54 AM, said:


Except you will only have a mouthful and not a plateful.
Portion size is important.

I thought this level of restriction only lasted for around six months to a year?

Disclaimer: Like most in this thread, I am only basing my comments on people I have known who have have had the surgery.

#64 ShelbyP

Posted 30 June 2017 - 06:56 PM

I've tried 800 cal a day diets. I can lose a few kgs in a few weeks then it plateaus and I give up. It's not sustainable.

I appreciate all the advice to try this and that diet and to move more, but I'll reiterate that I've yo yoed 30kgs for years and tried every diet going. I cannot do any decent exercise due to obesity related joint pain. Floating in water might feel nice but it will not help me lose weight. Exercise is less effective than diet anyway, we all know that.

This is no lazy quick fix. The weight is adversely affecting my life on a day to day basis. Emotionally and physically.

My question is, is it possible to lose a large amount of weight at my BMI, or would it be a waste of money. Losing 10kgs won't cut it.

Edited by Formaggio, 30 June 2017 - 06:57 PM.


#65 SCG23

Posted 30 June 2017 - 07:11 PM

View PostFormaggio, on 30 June 2017 - 06:56 PM, said:

I've tried 800 cal a day diets. I can lose a few kgs in a few weeks then it plateaus and I give up. It's not sustainable.

I appreciate all the advice to try this and that diet and to move more, but I'll reiterate that I've yo yoed 30kgs for years and tried every diet going. I cannot do any decent exercise due to obesity related joint pain. Floating in water might feel nice but it will not help me lose weight. Exercise is less effective than diet anyway, we all know that.

This is no lazy quick fix. The weight is adversely affecting my life on a day to day basis. Emotionally and physically.

My question is, is it possible to lose a large amount of weight at my BMI, or would it be a waste of money. Losing 10kgs won't cut it.

Most likely only if you're prepared to make changes to your diet.

#66 teaspoon

Posted 30 June 2017 - 07:12 PM

View PostFormaggio, on 30 June 2017 - 06:56 PM, said:

My question is, is it possible to lose a large amount of weight at my BMI, or would it be a waste of money. Losing 10kgs won't cut it.

You really need to talk with your doctor.

Apparently the gastric sleeve is less restrictive than the Roux-en-Y gastric by-pass.

(from someone who's watched way too many episodes of TLC's My 600 lb life) :ph34r:

#67 cinnabubble

Posted 30 June 2017 - 07:15 PM

Isn't that down to you? The surgery sets you up for success, it doesn't do the work for you. It seems like you want to outsource the difficulty of weight loss to a third party.

You know you can lose weight. You've done it a number of times. I'm pretty sure no surgery is going to fix your state of mind regarding maintaining weight loss. That's the hardest bit.

#68 liveworkplay

Posted 30 June 2017 - 07:37 PM

Quote

My question is, is it possible to lose a large amount of weight at my BMI, or would it be a waste of money. Losing 10kgs won't cut it.

With the right mindset, will power and nutrition, of course you can. If surgery will help you with the changes you need to make (and you are happy with the risks) go for it, if you think you can do it without, do that. At my lightest I've been 68kg, my heaviest 117kg. Ultimately it is hard work no matter which way you go and you need to be prepared for that. Unfortunately there is no magic wand.

Edited by liveworkplay, 30 June 2017 - 07:39 PM.


#69 FiveAus

Posted 30 June 2017 - 07:59 PM

View PostFormaggio, on 30 June 2017 - 06:56 PM, said:

I've tried 800 cal a day diets. I can lose a few kgs in a few weeks then it plateaus and I give up. It's not sustainable.

I appreciate all the advice to try this and that diet and to move more, but I'll reiterate that I've yo yoed 30kgs for years and tried every diet going. I cannot do any decent exercise due to obesity related joint pain. Floating in water might feel nice but it will not help me lose weight. Exercise is less effective than diet anyway, we all know that.

This is no lazy quick fix. The weight is adversely affecting my life on a day to day basis. Emotionally and physically.

My question is, is it possible to lose a large amount of weight at my BMI, or would it be a waste of money. Losing 10kgs won't cut it.

How did the weight get there? What food were you eating that made you put on weight? That's what you need to change, even if you have surgery. Eating less of what you eat now won't make you lose much weight, it might just stop you putting more on.
If you drink alcohol, and continue to drink the same amount after the surgery, the weight loss will be less as well.

My BMI in November last year was a lot higher than yours. I've also tried everything, some things more than once. Now I'm a healthy weight and a much lower BMI. No surgery involved but a massive lightbulb moment that really kicked my butt and made me do something positive. Had I had surgery, I still would have had to have that lightbulb moment for it to work long term.

If you want support, pop into the Lots To Lose Support thread. We're a friendly bunch.

#70 ShelbyP

Posted 30 June 2017 - 08:13 PM

Yes, yes, waiting for the lightbulb. Let's get real, people use surgical solutions for lots of issues.

So much judgement where fat is concerned.

Nothing any of you are advocating re: food has been unconsidered.

Also, shortcuts. In any other endeavours in life they're actively encouraged. But god forbid you get a helping hand with something as value laden as obesity and over eating.

Knowing you overeat does not stop it. Knowing you should eat less does not stop it.

"Outsourcing". Like the infertile outsource having children? Like those with bad hips outsource replacements? Like those with chronic sinusitis outsource removing polyps? Like those with cancer risks outsize removal of organs? Interesting word.

Edited by Formaggio, 30 June 2017 - 08:17 PM.


#71 liveworkplay

Posted 30 June 2017 - 08:23 PM

Formaggio, no one is saying don't do the surgery. They have answered your question as to whether they would. I said no purely because, for me, the risks are too great. However, if that is what you feel you need, do it.

What everyone HAS been saying is that surgery is not a total "solution" or a "short cut" as you put it. It is not "outsourcing"  weight loss...it is a tool to help. It is not like a hip replacement or IVF, those are a total solution to their respective problems. With surgery weight loss will still will be challenging, just like the other methods you have tried. Maybe it is the one that will work for you, none of us can predict that.

I have yo-yo'd my whole life. I finally feel this time that I have made a totally, sustainable change for me, however what I am doing is not necessarily what you, or the next person needs. You need to find your own sustainable solution.

Edited by liveworkplay, 30 June 2017 - 08:26 PM.


#72 FiveAus

Posted 30 June 2017 - 08:39 PM

I'm not judgemental, just realistic. I've seen the surgery work, I've seen surgery not work. The ones for whom is worked ALSO had to change their eating habits. Maybe the surgery made that easier but for the ones who didn't change, or went back to their old habits, it failed.
Before paying out thousands of dollars, having a general anaesthetic which is dangerous for anyone with a higher than healthy BMI, and undergoing surgery, it pays to be realistic about the possible outcome.

#73 Froyo

Posted 30 June 2017 - 09:07 PM

Yeah, nah. If there was any possible way I could have a child without IVF I'd be all over it, guns blazing. That's not anywhere near a true comparison. Neither are other surgeries/ procedures where there is literally no other choice.

#74 ShelbyP

Posted 30 June 2017 - 09:08 PM

"Before paying out thousands of dollars, having a general anaesthetic which is dangerous for anyone with a higher than healthy BMI, and undergoing surgery, it pays to be realistic about the possible outcome. "

This is all I was asking about. But instead got a bunch of lectures about eating less and moving more.

#75 byjingo

Posted 30 June 2017 - 09:08 PM

I feel your frustration reading some of these replies.

For me, with a BMI of 35, it is my last resort. I have no health insurance and may only just have enough super to cover, depending on who I go with, and if I can find someone who will (no co-morbidities) perform any procedure.

I'm a member on a few groups on Facebook, these are the people that give you more insight into what to expect, than someone who's mother's sisters Aunty has had the procedure. And to be honest, I'm still not 100% I will go through with it, my GP is on board.

The funny thing is, my mother and two sisters, one older, one younger and who all have BMI's higher than mine are the most negative about it.




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