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Breastfeeding mother imprisoned


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#26 lunariviera

Posted 30 September 2017 - 10:19 PM

I'm not a fan of jailing people for unpaid fines.  Community service would be much more sensible.  But I don't see why breastfeeding a 2 year old makes the matter any worse.

#27 Illiterati

Posted 30 September 2017 - 10:19 PM

I can't believe anyone would think what has happened here is OK or can be considered 'justice'. How would you like to seperated from your children and sent to prison because you are poor and racked up some fines for minor things that you cannot pay? Dog registration. Are you ****ing kidding me?

Edited to add: the woman has five children.

Here is the original story - get a load of how she came to be taken in by police. And how the electricity was cut off at the house where her kids were still living - while she was in prison.

https://www.theguard...re_iOSApp_Other

Edited by Illiterati, 30 September 2017 - 10:25 PM.


#28 CallMeFeral

Posted 30 September 2017 - 10:19 PM

I can't believe people are referring to non payment of fines as a crime that should involve jailing. Her primary crime here seems to be poverty.
The breastfeeding on it's own is not that big an issue at that age BUT... in the context of her being primary carer of a very small child and that breastmilk quite probably helped to sustain the child when food may have been hard to come by, the decision to jail her (in fact the decision to let the financial situation get that extreme) is just horrendously inappropriate.

I just don't understand our government. We spend millions to keep people who aren't from here in appalling conditions so that they can't come in and cost much less. And we put our original people in jail for being unable to pay tiny penalties we have applied on them for ridiculous things. It's a terrible joke.

#29 Oriental lily

Posted 30 September 2017 - 10:24 PM

I think it's Finland in that people get fined  via percentage of their income not a flat rate . So a person earning 500.000 a year will get more heavily fined than someone on 50.000 a year . Which makes makes so much more sense . Or a easy conversion to community service if they prefer . Like if you get fined for an unregistered dog you could donate a certain amount of hours to cleaning kennels in the local dog pound if preferred . Or you can pay the fine . Either way .

#30 22Fruitmincepies

Posted 30 September 2017 - 11:18 PM

I really would have thought that jail for non-payment of fines would have ceased after the coroner's recommendations following the tragedy of Ms Dhu's death. I'm horrified that jail is still considered appropriate.

#31 Paddlepop

Posted 30 September 2017 - 11:34 PM

View Post22Fruitmincepies, on 30 September 2017 - 11:18 PM, said:

I really would have thought that jail for non-payment of fines would have ceased after the coroner's recommendations following the tragedy of Ms Dhu's death. I'm horrified that jail is still considered appropriate.

A reform package is to be presented to cabinet by the end of the year to address those recommendations. It's detailed in the link from Illiterati.
https://www.theguard...re_iOSApp_Other

#32 CallMeFeral

Posted 30 September 2017 - 11:40 PM

View PostIlliterati, on 30 September 2017 - 10:19 PM, said:

Here is the original story - get a load of how she came to be taken in by police. And how the electricity was cut off at the house where her kids were still living - while she was in prison.

https://www.theguard...re_iOSApp_Other

OMG, that is messed up :(

AND she is looking after her sister's 6 children too, all on $520 per fortnight and fears the department of housing will hear of her incarceration and then they will all be homeless.

I just can't believe the inhumanity of this system! It's not designed to help people it's designed to keep them down.


And this is so depressing:
"A report by the WA inspector of custodial servicesfound that Aboriginal women were the most likely of any group to be jailed for fines, making up 15% of the total prisoner intake but 22% of all people jailed for fine default, and were the most likely to be jailed when they were unemployed and had no real capacity to pay."

Edited by CallMeFeral, 30 September 2017 - 11:40 PM.


#33 unicycle

Posted 01 October 2017 - 12:23 AM

a swearing warning ahead, feel free to scroll on by.











a dog fine? a dog fine? for ****'s sake, what sort of a country are we living in? for those wondering about a breast fed 2 yo, I can only assume you didn't breastfeed for 2 years so that you think this is not punishing the child and willfully telling the mother: well **** you, let's see how many other ways we can hurt you and yours. for a ****ing dog fine. sometimes, i am ok with swearing in public forums.


not often.









swearing ended
it's a symbol. it represents so much that is wrong. that is why it matters

Edited by unicycle, 01 October 2017 - 12:48 AM.


#34 born.a.girl

Posted 01 October 2017 - 07:18 AM

View PostMooples, on 30 September 2017 - 08:16 PM, said:

I agree the penalty is harsh and the treatment of Indigenous people is horrible but she should have registered her dog. An extremely minor crime of course but so easily avoided.

If you're comfortably off yes.

We've reached a point where people on limited incomes can't afford to have a pet animal.

I'd have thought EB threads would have shown everyone here just how hard it is sometimes to prioritise some debts when the alternative is worse.

Why not community service in the first place for people who are on very limited incomes and incur a fine?

Why not make that an option in the first place instead of paying the registration so those on low incomes can avoid these fees in the first place, but still 'give' to the community in return for the services the council provides on the dogs front.

It's done now, but instead of 'she shouldn't have done it', look at ways to avoid this situation in the future.

#35 born.a.girl

Posted 01 October 2017 - 07:25 AM

View Postlunariviera, on 30 September 2017 - 10:19 PM, said:

I'm not a fan of jailing people for unpaid fines.  Community service would be much more sensible.  But I don't see why breastfeeding a 2 year old makes the matter any worse.

Nutrition aside, the two year old is being punished because a dog wasn't registered.



We have enough threads on EB about children who are difficult to settle, and many parents choose to continue the breastfeed as a comfort tool rather than for nutrition.

How many threads have we had were a mother has wanted to have a night off/away for some reason, and wondered how to make the transition.   The threads can go for pages.

In future we'll be able to say - oh just go, he/she doesn't really need it.

#36 Nobody Cool

Posted 01 October 2017 - 07:44 AM

View Postpurplekitty, on 30 September 2017 - 08:19 PM, said:

I'd rather Belle Gibson was in jail for not ponying up the $400,000.

Perfect example of white privilege right there.

#37 Ellie bean

Posted 01 October 2017 - 08:41 AM

View Postborn.a.girl, on 01 October 2017 - 07:25 AM, said:



Nutrition aside, the two year old is being punished because a dog wasn't registered.



We have enough threads on EB about children who are difficult to settle, and many parents choose to continue the breastfeed as a comfort tool rather than for nutrition.

How many threads have we had were a mother has wanted to have a night off/away for some reason, and wondered how to make the transition.   The threads can go for pages.

In future we'll be able to say - oh just go, he/she doesn't really need it.
Of course they need it. But it's not only bf babies that need their mums. I was home for bedtime every night until my youngest was over 3 because my kids are both very attached to me and need me- they weren't bf. Non bf babies are just as bonded.

#38 Riotproof

Posted 01 October 2017 - 08:43 AM

I really think the breastfeeding a moot point. The problem here is a very harsh penalty being applied for a minor crime.

#39 Ellie bean

Posted 01 October 2017 - 08:57 AM

View PostRiotproof, on 01 October 2017 - 08:43 AM, said:

I really think the breastfeeding a moot point. The problem here is a very harsh penalty being applied for a minor crime.
I agree, that's the real issue here and it's appalling.
I still have an issue (and I'm aware it's a very first world issue in comparison) with the implication or assumption, from the OP and some other posts, that a bf baby needs it's mum more.

#40 Literary Lemur

Posted 01 October 2017 - 09:15 AM

https://www.theguard...-pays-3000-fine

#41 Pooks Combusted

Posted 01 October 2017 - 09:18 AM

I don't understand why the OP would think that only breastfeeding mothers would be moved to support this woman.

I chipped into the gofundme for the woman and I formula fed, FYI.

The appalling death of Ms Dhu should have been enough to see the end of these ridiculous sentences.

#42 casime

Posted 01 October 2017 - 09:37 AM

I think what has bigger ramifications is that the police were called to the home due to violence of another family member, and then did a background check on her which led to her arrest.  I believe the same happened in the Dhu case.  This sort of thing will stop Indigenous women from calling the police when their safety is at risk.

#43 unicycle

Posted 01 October 2017 - 09:38 AM

View PostEllie bean, on 01 October 2017 - 08:57 AM, said:

I agree, that's the real issue here and it's appalling.
I still have an issue (and I'm aware it's a very first world issue in comparison) with the implication or assumption, from the OP and some other posts, that a bf baby needs it's mum more.
On the flipside there is  an assumption from quite a lot of society that breast feeding at aged two is disgusting and unnecessary and a poor  reflection of the mother and even that it is an unnatural, creepy relationship between mother and child. it is also not uncommon to be on the receiving end of that one.
I have no doubt that was an influence in the decision, given my experiences

And it sucks that people also make bottle-feeding parents feel similarly.

#44 born.a.girl

Posted 01 October 2017 - 10:21 AM

View PostEllie bean, on 01 October 2017 - 08:57 AM, said:

I agree, that's the real issue here and it's appalling.
I still have an issue (and I'm aware it's a very first world issue in comparison) with the implication or assumption, from the OP and some other posts, that a bf baby needs it's mum more.

I can assure you there was zero in mine - I was responding to suggestions that a two year old doesn't need to be breast fed.

Don't read into my comment, things that are not there.

I didn't suggest they needed their Mum more, I suggested that there was more to breastfeeding a two year old than nutrition.

Vastly different concepts using some of the same words.

EFS.

Edited by born.a.girl, 01 October 2017 - 11:51 AM.


#45 Riotproof

Posted 01 October 2017 - 10:32 AM

View Postborn.a.girl, on 01 October 2017 - 10:21 AM, said:



I can assure you there was zero in mine - I was reponding to suggestions that a two year old doesn't need to be breast fed.

Don't read into my comment, things that are not there.

I didn't suggest they needed their Mum more, I suggested that there was more to breastfeeding a two year old that nutrition.\

Vastly different concepts using some of the same words.

I agree with you. TBH though the fact that she has a 2 yo and how that 2 yo drinks milk are irrelevant.

I don't think anyone should be jailed for not paying a standard fine, Belle Gibson is another case entirely. We have to ask why this happened, and the only conclusion is a justice system that is completely at odds with certain groups in our society.

#46 wombats

Posted 01 October 2017 - 10:45 AM

View PostRiotproof, on 01 October 2017 - 08:43 AM, said:

I really think the breastfeeding a moot point. The problem here is a very harsh penalty being applied for a minor crime.

I agree, I think the OP being about the breastfeeding probably missed the point and so people got upset about early posters responding to the bf part of the issue (as raised by the OP) rather than the larger picture.

#47 lucky 2

Posted 01 October 2017 - 12:02 PM

View Postwombats, on 01 October 2017 - 10:45 AM, said:

I agree, I think the OP being about the breastfeeding probably missed the point and so people got upset about early posters responding to the bf part of the issue (as raised by the OP) rather than the larger picture.
The OP posted her topic in the BFing forum, she asked women who currently bf or have bf, specifically, as is her right, what can be done about the situation.

Generally what can be done is to personally support every mother and child's right to feed how they want to feed, including the right of children to continue the bfing relationship as long as they and Mum want.
To normalise bfing for any length of time and view bfing as more than a method of milk transfer.

As for this specific case, I hope it creates enough outrage for positive changes to be made to our laws and justice system.

#48 lucky 2

Posted 01 October 2017 - 12:16 PM

Please note, I have posted a "spin off" topic in the News and Current Affairs forum to provide a space for broad discussion of this topic.

http://www.abc.net.a...ce-call/9002656

I have removed one post and the member has been directed to the new thread.

Kind regards,

lucky 2
Moderator

#49 lunariviera

Posted 01 October 2017 - 12:50 PM

View Postborn.a.girl, on 01 October 2017 - 07:25 AM, said:

Nutrition aside, the two year old is being punished because a dog wasn't registered.



We have enough threads on EB about children who are difficult to settle, and many parents choose to continue the breastfeed as a comfort tool rather than for nutrition.

How many threads have we had were a mother has wanted to have a night off/away for some reason, and wondered how to make the transition.   The threads can go for pages.

In future we'll be able to say - oh just go, he/she doesn't really need it.

You misunderstand me.  Jailing people for fines, especially fines related to such minor issues is a travesty.  Why the hell is the headline about breastfeeding mothers?  Rather than the real issue which is discrimination against Indigenous Australians, and terrible misuse of jail time as punishments.  Does breastfeeding need to added to make it palatable to white people or something?

#50 Lucrezia Borgia

Posted 01 October 2017 - 12:54 PM

What's wrong with noting a breastfeeding child needs to be with her mother as she is relying on her for nutrition? With or without the breastfeeding issue the situation is bad - but I can't see a problem with mentioning the breastfeeding as it is relevant to the situation.




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