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Breastfeeding mother imprisoned


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#51 Pooks Combusted

Posted 01 October 2017 - 01:15 PM

It wasn't just mentioned as relevant, it was the only issue identified by the OP.

#52 Lucrezia Borgia

Posted 01 October 2017 - 01:19 PM

In the breastfeeding forum....

#53 ~J_F~

Posted 01 October 2017 - 01:29 PM

I did not realise this was in the breastfeeding forum until the mod said something.

View Postlunariviera, on 01 October 2017 - 12:50 PM, said:

You misunderstand me.  Jailing people for fines, especially fines related to such minor issues is a travesty.  Why the hell is the headline about breastfeeding mothers?  Rather than the real issue which is discrimination against Indigenous Australians, and terrible misuse of jail time as punishments.  Does breastfeeding need to added to make it palatable to white people or something?

I think the breastfeeding point does make it more palatable to privileged white people, females in particular. Makes them more outraged and more likely to stand up and do something.

A lot of people dont care about Indigenous and the fact they are still highly discriminated against. They tell them to get over it and just be normal. I see and hear it everyday where I live.

But if they need to push the breastfeeding angle to get people to actually give a damn then so be it.

#54 marple

Posted 01 October 2017 - 02:38 PM

How shameful. Is she out yet?
I've forgotten to register a dog. Nobody cared.
This seems like a story out of 1950's America.

#55 Pooks Combusted

Posted 01 October 2017 - 02:47 PM

View PostLucrezia Borgia, on 01 October 2017 - 01:19 PM, said:

In the breastfeeding forum....

Well, yes. Exactly.

#56 mum2345

Posted 01 October 2017 - 07:49 PM

View Postverde, on 30 September 2017 - 07:57 PM, said:

How can this happen? What can women who are breastfeeding or have breastfed do to prevent this happening again?

https://www.theguard...-pays-3000-fine

I'll assume that most women who are breastfeeding who are in jail for reasons other than unpaid fines.

They can prevent a jail sentence by not committing crimes that result in a jail sentence.

Breastfeeding shouldn't be a get out of jail free card.

#57 purplekitty

Posted 01 October 2017 - 07:54 PM

View Postmum2345, on 01 October 2017 - 07:49 PM, said:


I'll assume that most women who are breastfeeding who are in jail for reasons other than unpaid fines.

They can prevent a jail sentence by not committing crimes that result in a jail sentence.

Breastfeeding shouldn't be a get out of jail free card.
Have you read the thead?

#58 Future-self

Posted 01 October 2017 - 08:03 PM

View Postmum2345, on 01 October 2017 - 07:49 PM, said:


I

They can prevent a jail sentence by not committing crimes that result in a jail sentence.

Like...Not being able to prioritize the cost of registering a Dog with Council when she can barely afford food? That kind of crime?

#59 ~J_F~

Posted 01 October 2017 - 08:27 PM

I don't get how anyone can be ok with the consequence of having an unregistered dog being jail.

There are people out there actually committing real crimes and nada.

Something isnt right in this scenario.

#60 mum2345

Posted 02 October 2017 - 07:52 AM

View PostFuture-self, on 01 October 2017 - 08:03 PM, said:

Like...Not being able to prioritize the cost of registering a Dog with Council when she can barely afford food? That kind of crime?


View PostFresh Start, on 01 October 2017 - 08:16 PM, said:

More to the point did mum2345 read the story and realise an unregistered dog started this. There is something wrong there mum2345.

The thread was framed

("What can women who are breastfeeding or have breastfed do to prevent this happening again?)

as an issue specifically relating to the possibility that breastfeeding women could be jailed, which implied that the OP thought that the justice system should treat such women more favourably.

View Postpurplekitty, on 01 October 2017 - 07:54 PM, said:

Have you read the thead?

no

Edited by mum2345, 02 October 2017 - 07:53 AM.


#61 purplekitty

Posted 02 October 2017 - 01:03 PM

View Postmum2345, on 02 October 2017 - 07:52 AM, said:

no
Perhaps you should.

#62 verde

Posted 02 October 2017 - 05:38 PM

I asked my original question in the breastfeeding thread here as I remembered my own situation weaning a two year old was extremely traumatic for my child, and for me.

An enforced weaning by the state IS an issue in and of itself. But it is clearly not the only issue.

I was making no value judgement as to how a child derives its nutrition. We all love our children. A woman in our country, where we vote and where we have voices we can and should be using to call out injustice, was forcibly removed from the care of her children for the most trivial of offences by the justice system in WA. A justice system is made up of many actors who are seemingly able to suspend their humanity to clamp in cuffs a mother who was asking for help, who was in extremis, on the extremely dubious pretext of enforcing a warrant for an unpaid fine, which presumably originated from local government. All of this was witnessed by five children left at home, one of them weaned as a result, and potentially in the dark at risk of having the power turned off.

Clearly, this story brings together so many issues, It is one small part of a wider issue of institutional discrimination, unjust action by the state against indigenous people, unjust action against poor people, violence against women, lack of protection by police for victims of violence, failure of justice system in every sense, failure of social support, the state as an oppressor rather than protector, lack of civil rights, lack of security of basic utilities for vulnerable people, need I go on...

This case is extreme and has haunted me since I first read about it. As I could not see anyone talking about it, no one  speaking up for this poor woman, no one speaking up for the next women that this will happen to, so I asked my question.

And I return to my original question: how can this be prevented from re-occurring?

#63 ~J_F~

Posted 02 October 2017 - 06:27 PM

Get the law changed and get society to stop treating aboriginal people are lesser beings.

The first one is far easier than the second.

#64 verde

Posted 02 October 2017 - 06:44 PM

Good point. How does law reform happen sooner rather than later if this is not seen as an issue?

#65 ~J_F~

Posted 02 October 2017 - 06:51 PM

Apparently there are already moves to change the imprisonment for fines after a death in custody earlier in the year. I am not sure if it was in this thread or the spin off where it was mentioned.

Make noise, write to your local elective, talk to people.

#66 22Fruitmincepies

Posted 02 October 2017 - 08:16 PM

It seems that there is already room for judgement as to the appropriateness of jail for non-payment of fines, so it can be decided that it is not appropriate for a mother of young children.

How to prevent it recurring (before a change in legislation happens) - better access to legal aid is probably most important. So funding legal aid and the ALS properly!

#67 MarigoldMadge

Posted 02 October 2017 - 08:40 PM

View Postmarple, on 01 October 2017 - 02:38 PM, said:

How shameful. Is she out yet?
I've forgotten to register a dog. Nobody cared.
This seems like a story out of 1950's America.

Yes she's out - this pensioner from Melbourne has been identified as the donor who paid her outstanding fines.

http://www.sbs.com.a...d-wa-mums-fines

#68 c.sanders

Posted 03 October 2017 - 09:24 AM

A lot of people commit crimes and barely get any jail even if it involves a lot of money.

It's absolutely wrong what is happening here to the poor. Shame on the government and justice system.

#69 Tinkle Splashes

Posted 03 October 2017 - 11:19 AM

View Post~J_F~, on 02 October 2017 - 06:51 PM, said:

Apparently there are already moves to change the imprisonment for fines after a death in custody earlier in the year. I am not sure if it was in this thread or the spin off where it was mentioned.

Make noise, write to your local elective, talk to people.

Unfortunately the wheels have not turned that quickly.  The death in custody was that of Ms Dhu (her family prefer her first name not to be published for cultural reasons) in 2014, 2 days after she was imprisoned for non-payment of fines.  At the time of her arrest she had a fractured rib (from an assault by her partner), was feeling unwell and had been intending to seek treatment at the local hospital.

She was taken to the local hospital twice during the two days that she was imprisoned, and the medical staff who examined her (if you can call the scant attention they paid to her an "examination") formed the view that she was not unwell and was fit to be imprisoned.  Police and medical staff assumed that she was faking her illness either to get out of prison or to access pain medication.  She actually had a severe staph infection, from which she died after collapsing in prison.

A coronial inquest was conducted last year and findings and recommendations were delivered in December 2016.  It is only now, over 3 years after Ms Dhu's death and after a change of government, that consideration is being given to changing the laws in relation to imprisonment for non-payment of fines.

#70 born.a.girl

Posted 03 October 2017 - 03:36 PM

View Post~J_F~, on 02 October 2017 - 06:27 PM, said:

Get the law changed and get society to stop treating aboriginal people are lesser beings.

The first one is far easier than the second.

So very true, because the laws apply equally to everyone, but certain groups suffer disproportionately from certain laws.  That's much tougher to unravel.

#71 born.a.girl

Posted 03 October 2017 - 03:38 PM

View Postc.sanders, on 03 October 2017 - 09:24 AM, said:

A lot of people commit crimes and barely get any jail even if it involves a lot of money.

It's absolutely wrong what is happening here to the poor. Shame on the government and justice system.

Especially if it involves a lot of money, it seems to me

The more you have, the more you get off.  Although I suppose Alan Bond did succumb in the end: 'I told you I was sick'.

#72 born.a.girl

Posted 03 October 2017 - 03:42 PM

View PostMarigoldMadge, on 02 October 2017 - 08:40 PM, said:

Yes she's out - this pensioner from Melbourne has been identified as the donor who paid her outstanding fines.

http://www.sbs.com.a...d-wa-mums-fines

wow, this bit from your linked article almost beggars belief:

Quote

In order to pay the fines, initially Mr Clark had to investigate in which prison she was in and tried calling, but was denied because he did not know her name.
“I said [to the attendant] there’s an article in The Guardian today if you pull it up on your computer you’ll see it,” Mr Clark explained.
“How many Noongar women with five children of her own, and six children that she looks after, who’ve been arrested in the last two days do you get?
“And she said, ‘oh we get seven or eight a day’. I said, ‘are they all being locked up because of unpaid fines?’ And she said, ‘yes, and they’re mostly women’,” he recalls in disbelief.
“At that point, I just shook my head.”


#73 Tinkle Splashes

Posted 03 October 2017 - 03:48 PM

That quote doesn't reflect the actual statistics, FWIW.  In 2014/2015 (the latest statistics available) there were 603 people imprisoned for fine defaults in WA (less than 7 or 8 a day, which would be more like 2,500 per year).  On average, 22% of those were Aboriginal women.

The Office of the Inspector of Custodial Services published a report on the subject in April 2016, if anyone is interested in reading it.  http://www.parliamen.../$file/4182.pdf

Edited by Tinkle Splashes, 03 October 2017 - 03:48 PM.





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