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#26 CallMeFeral

Posted 24 August 2018 - 09:07 PM

View PostPhillipaCrawford, on 24 August 2018 - 06:34 PM, said:

But consider for a moment the view of your child who just wants to be home safe with someone who loves her when she's ill.
I think it a bit sad you want to outsource that actually.

Oh FFS with this holier than thou.
My child would love to be home safe with someone who loves her EVERY day. In fact, she'd actually like to be glued to my tummy all day. And she'd quite like it if my other two children didn't have to go to school, so they could stay home and play with her.

So I should be doing that hey, because what a child wants is all that matters...

#27 Illiterati

Posted 24 August 2018 - 09:30 PM

Are they calling your partner too? It sounds like you are doing the lion’s share. If you put him as primary contact they might also call less at the drop of the hat - because of the gender bias that these things are a mother’s responsibility.

#28 Hands Up

Posted 24 August 2018 - 09:34 PM

View PostBoticelli, on 24 August 2018 - 07:37 PM, said:

New day care and new doctor

This.

#29 EsmeLennox

Posted 25 August 2018 - 01:26 AM

Yep...you either challenge the daycare centre or look for a new one. I actually remember this happening at the LDC my kids went to...when my eldest was about a year old they tried to implement a doctor’s sign off for *every* illness...so many parents told them to get stuffed that they had to pull their heads in. This was 15 years ago.

It is entirely fair that if your child has something like HFM, chicken pox, influenza etc that they get a doctor’s clearance. It is not reasonable to be asked for one for a cold.

Edited by EsmeLennox, 25 August 2018 - 01:27 AM.


#30 Magratte

Posted 25 August 2018 - 06:15 AM

You have not mentioned your husband. If you and you partner both work full time it would seem fair to share the care of your DD. I think generally men should take sick leave for their kids more.

#31 JomoMum

Posted 25 August 2018 - 07:22 AM

Bags NOT being the child care worker who is hired to look after sick kids all day in isolation .... what a horrendous suggestion, not least because of the educators own health being put at risk??

A fever is a sign there is something more going on. It’s not just a snotty nose and nothing else. There is an infection the body is trying to fight, which means it’s contageous to possibly other healthy kids.

But needing a sign off for everything is over the top. Our Daycare only require this for major illnesses - when our son had ringworm (unbeknownst to me cause I’m an idiot lol)  was the only time we’ve required this. Diarrhea or fever was just the normal exclusion period.



#32 PhillipaCrawford

Posted 25 August 2018 - 08:50 AM

View PostCallMeFeral, on 24 August 2018 - 09:07 PM, said:

Oh FFS with this holier than thou.
My child would love to be home safe with someone who loves her EVERY day. In fact, she'd actually like to be glued to my tummy all day. And she'd quite like it if my other two children didn't have to go to school, so they could stay home and play with her.

So I should be doing that hey, because what a child wants is all that matters...

One of the things that gets lost in the discussion are not what a child 'wants' but what a child needs.

We know that for the mental and emotional health of a child he/she needs to form a secure attachment  and that this is particularly vital  in the first 12 months.
This isn't a 'want', it is a basic need and why paid maternity leave should be longer, not because it is nice for parents to be home but because it is an essential part of infant development. It's why many countries have more paid maternity or paternity leave than we do.

Like every other parent when my kids were little I certainly wasn't able to provide the 'ideal', doesn't mean the ideal doesn't exist.
But I think it really important that in all the thinking we do about what we as parents need, we also make our decisions about what the child needs. Just as we spent our pregnancies not eating and drinking whatever we wanted, that recognition of the child's needs has to continue.
And picking up a feverish baby is part of it.

And  yes I am aware that my opinion is not a popular one; that there are many reasons why it often can't happen but I think it important we at least think about it.

And I am certainly not saying 'mum' but parent.

#33 Evra

Posted 25 August 2018 - 09:15 AM

Isolation rooms seem like a horrid idea, especially for younger babies who won’t even understand why they’re being put there. Also unviable in terms of staffing costs and ratios.
I thought the idea of sign off forms was to allow the child back before the usual exclusion period is up, e.g. child has a rash/fever but it is due to vaccine reaction not an infection.
It’s worth asking the director to clarify the policy.
As others have said, your child’s other parent should be doing a fair share if they are around. My DH has a more client facing role than mine, so I’ll usually take the first day and him the second, so he has time to reschedule meetings. Depending on what work you do, maybe you can request some working from home arrangements to minimise your sick leave. Much as it hurts to use annual leave for sick days, that should also be available to you.
It does get better as their immune system builds up and they start walking, spend less time on the floor and more in their personal space.

#34 Soontobegran

Posted 25 August 2018 - 09:15 AM

View PostPhillipaCrawford, on 25 August 2018 - 08:50 AM, said:

One of the things that gets lost in the discussion are not what a child 'wants' but what a child needs.

We know that for the mental and emotional health of a child he/she needs to form a secure attachment  and that this is particularly vital  in the first 12 months.
This isn't a 'want', it is a basic need and why paid maternity leave should be longer, not because it is nice for parents to be home but because it is an essential part of infant development. It's why many countries have more paid maternity or paternity leave than we do.

Like every other parent when my kids were little I certainly wasn't able to provide the 'ideal', doesn't mean the ideal doesn't exist.
But I think it really important that in all the thinking we do about what we as parents need, we also make our decisions about what the child needs. Just as we spent our pregnancies not eating and drinking whatever we wanted, that recognition of the child's needs has to continue.
And picking up a feverish baby is part of it.

And  yes I am aware that my opinion is not a popular one; that there are many reasons why it often can't happen but I think it important we at least think about it.

And I am certainly not saying 'mum' but parent.

Here is a large serve of guilt for breakfast.



efc

Edited by Soontobegran, 25 August 2018 - 10:40 AM.


#35 Bethlehem Babe

Posted 25 August 2018 - 09:25 AM

We can’t get in to see a doctor in town for over a week. I cannot see how the doctors clearance policy would work here. We’d be up at the hospital asking for a clearance. How stupid is that!!

#36 CallMeFeral

Posted 25 August 2018 - 09:28 AM

View PostPhillipaCrawford, on 25 August 2018 - 08:50 AM, said:

that recognition of the child's needs has to continue.
And picking up a feverish baby is part of it.




Firstly, the OP has not refused to pick up her baby. And keeping the baby home for a week after it's better because of administrative rubbish is not a "child's need".

Secondly, with all this 'needs' stuff, a roof over their head and food to eat is a much more core 'need' than 'needing' to be with a parent when sick. Sure, it's nice to have but if it means that a parent loses their employment due to it and that the family then struggles, that's the child losing out on a 'need' too. In the end, 'needs' need to be prioritised.
I'm not arguing that the baby should stay in daycare when sick - it's not fair on the carers and other kids, and it's not ideal for the child. But that doesn't make it a need. Plenty of sick children stay with nannies, grandparents, relatives whatever, all over the world, because plenty of parents don't have the luxury of jobs that they can drop at a moments notice, or the option to not work. And lots of those kids have awesome attachment.

Calling someone sad because they 'want' to 'outsource that' is really insulting. Most of us work because we need the money (to simplify it). Not because we 'want to outsource' our parenting and escape our children. Money is a 'need' for survival and is far more core than wanting to sook with your parent when you're sick. Lots of us would I'm sure love a job where we could go in when we felt like it, work when we wanted, never be stressed, or maybe some of us would prefer not to work at all. But we do it. Because of 'needs'.

Guilt tripping someone for attending to those very core 'needs' is really off. If you have the luxury of gluing your child to you 24/7 then go you, but judging people who don't have that option is horrible.

#37 Baggy

Posted 25 August 2018 - 09:35 AM

Enough of the guilt trips.

We’re expected to parent like we don’t have a job, and to work as if we don’t have children. The guilt Mother’s are putting on themselves is enough without strangers making them feel even worse.

OP, I don’t have a solution for you, but I hope you manage to find some kind of balance. My 7 & 10yo girls are in school now, and I still find the before/after school and holiday care an enormous strain.

#38 Crombek

Posted 25 August 2018 - 09:40 AM

How ridiculous. Babies form MULTIPLE attachments to multiple people. Including daycarers. It’s completely nonsensical from a survival point of view to pin everything on a single attachment figure.

#39 Illiterati

Posted 25 August 2018 - 10:39 AM

.

Edited by Illiterati, 24 March 2019 - 07:38 PM.


#40 born.a.girl

Posted 25 August 2018 - 11:21 AM

View PostCrombek, on 25 August 2018 - 09:40 AM, said:

How ridiculous. Babies form MULTIPLE attachments to multiple people. Including daycarers. It’s completely nonsensical from a survival point of view to pin everything on a single attachment figure.

Exactly. At that age, my daughter would burst into tears if we passed the occasional care place she went to 1 - 3 times a week. I had to learn to distract her so she didn't notice.


My sister would also have been a perfectly acceptable alternative - she lit up like a christmas tree when she visited.

Children that age really don't care who you are, or what your blood relationship is with them.

I find it incredibly pompous to imagine there's really no decent substitute for 'parents'.

Edited by born.a.girl, 25 August 2018 - 11:22 AM.


#41 MrsLexiK

Posted 25 August 2018 - 11:28 AM

View Postborn.a.girl, on 25 August 2018 - 11:21 AM, said:



Exactly. At that age, my daughter would burst into tears if we passed the occasional care place she went to 1 - 3 times a week. I had to learn to distract her so she didn't notice.


My sister would also have been a perfectly acceptable alternative - she lit up like a christmas tree when she visited.

Children that age really don't care who you are, or what your blood relationship is with them.

I find it incredibly pompous to imagine there's really no decent substitute for 'parents'.
On the way to his party my 3 yr old DS asked if I could sway and his Aunty come home as he wanted her there over me

#42 lizzzard

Posted 25 August 2018 - 11:53 AM

Practicality wise, we got a nanny 1 day per week, but she was also flexible to do additional days if necessary (mostly when the kids were sick). This helped relieve some of the pressure of illness.

Having said that, I think your CC centre policy is ridiculous OP. I'd look at changing centres to be honest.

Finally, PC's comments.....I find it very ironic that you sit there judging other parents for their 'non-attachment' decisions when the reality is your own approach will probably create all sorts of other 'issues' in your kids. Every thoughtfully-made decision has pros and cons...and to imply some parents aren't making thoughtful decisions is very arrogant and pretty naive actually.

#43 PhillipaCrawford

Posted 25 August 2018 - 12:00 PM

My views of the needs of a baby are very influenced by the studies I have done over the years in early childhood development. The bonds a baby forms with the significant caregiver have a lifelong effect. This statement is not me wanting to heap guilt on anyone, it is the opinion of researchers who work with in the field and it is something we need to consider in the choices we make for our babies.
I did not say the OP was ‘sad’. I did say her desire to outsource the care of her ill baby was a sad one – because that was the intent of her suggestion of isolation rooms at child care.

I have not any stage wanted to guilt trip working mums. I am one, although I was able to stay home for 10 months. And looking back on the early stage I certainly made choices in care that suited me rather than the kids, because a job was more important than them. So if anyone is guilty it’s me.

I also recognise that in the hierarchy of needs the physical needs of food and shelter are primary.
But what comes after that?

It is insulting to babies and children to say they don’t care who looks after them and will attach to anyone. Of course they know and of course it matters. We would not see so many posts from people whose children struggle at separation otherwise. Children, particularly those under 12 months need a consistent and caring caregiver in order that they develop an essential attachment.

When we talk about child care and leaving our children in care we need to think also of the child, not just the parents whose work arrangements are being jeopardised by the needs of that child. That requires a whole society shift that can’t happen if we don’t view the children’s needs as equal in importance to the parent.
And that is the intent of my post – not to guilt or judge another parent.


#44 Soontobegran

Posted 25 August 2018 - 12:16 PM

View PostPhillipaCrawford, on 25 August 2018 - 12:00 PM, said:


It is insulting to babies and children to say they don’t care who looks after them and will attach to anyone. Of course they know and of course it matters. We would not see so many posts from people whose children struggle at separation otherwise. Children, particularly those under 12 months need a consistent and caring caregiver in order that they develop an essential attachment.


It is insulting to parents who do struggle to balance work and childcare to assume they are not aware of the importance of who does care for their children.
This is why there are so many queries regarding issues they are having with CC options.

Where is 'the village' in your view on this essential attachment period?

FTR our children did not go to CC because my DH and I worked opposite shifts but I did NOT see any indication that they were any better off than their CC peers during the school years and beyond.

#45 Lady Sybil Vimes

Posted 25 August 2018 - 12:45 PM

The OP is stressed about the burden an overly officious childcare rule is placing on her and what the consequences might be for her work. I took her comment about isolation rooms as a reaction to that, not a serious policy proposal the OP was about to send to committee stage.

I’m absolutely sure that if a man had posted the same thing he wouldn’t be getting lectures about attachment theory but women do, just about every time.

#46 CallMeFeral

Posted 25 August 2018 - 01:46 PM

View PostPhillipaCrawford, on 25 August 2018 - 12:00 PM, said:

My views of the needs of a baby are very influenced by the studies I have done over the years in early childhood development. The bonds a baby forms with the significant caregiver have a lifelong effect. This statement is not me wanting to heap guilt on anyone, it is the opinion of researchers who work with in the field and it is something we need to consider in the choices we make for our babies.

Attachment theory is well researched but very different from attachment parenting. It is inaccurate to suggest that research supports the necessity of the latter in order to facilitate secure attachment. Attachment theory in fact specifically discusses multiple attachments and attachment hierarchies, and supports the concept of the 'good enough' parent.

This is a very good article disambiguating the two.
http://www.developme...g-get-you-there

#47 MrsMuzz82

Posted 25 August 2018 - 03:16 PM

Well frankly I’m fed up with the constant illnesses because other parents think it’s ok to send their child to daycare when they’re obviously unwell! Sorry but a runny nose and fever is NOT normal and means your child has some sort of virus. Please keep them home until they are actually better. It’s not everybody else’s problem if you don’t have other care arrangements. Sorry to be harsh but it’s a pet peace of mine. I keep my child home when he has the sniffles - please do the same!

#48 22Fruitmincepies

Posted 25 August 2018 - 03:17 PM

Phillipa - you may have had a good point, however it got lost in the officious tone and the lack of understanding and actual discussion on the issue. A bit of kindness and compassion is needed in these discussions.

#49 22Fruitmincepies

Posted 25 August 2018 - 03:29 PM

View PostMrsMuzz82, on 25 August 2018 - 03:16 PM, said:

Well frankly I’m fed up with the constant illnesses because other parents think it’s ok to send their child to daycare when they’re obviously unwell! Sorry but a runny nose and fever is NOT normal and means your child has some sort of virus. Please keep them home until they are actually better. It’s not everybody else’s problem if you don’t have other care arrangements. Sorry to be harsh but it’s a pet peace of mine. I keep my child home when he has the sniffles - please do the same!

How about a runny nose with no fever? Is that ok? How about the runny nose that the parent knows is due to allergies and not a virus? How about the post-viral cough my child gets that sounds horrible and lasts for weeks? She’s not infectious. This is something I’ve been thinking about a lot this year as DD’s classmate has cancer, so everyone has to keep that child as safe as possible from infection.  

If every child who had a bit of a runny nose stayed home, then the daycares would be deserted!

#50 BornToLove

Posted 25 August 2018 - 03:36 PM

I haven’t read all the posts, but can I ask when your childcare is taking your child’s temp? Is it during/right after sleep time? My DD runs very hot in her sleep, even stripped down and no blankets. She has always been like that.

Anyways we would get regular calls to pick her up when she first started child care. DH works on site, so he would arrive 15 minutes later and DD was fine, no fever. We finally had to ask the carers to wait 15 minutes, recheck her temp and then call us if she her body temp is still high. That stopped the calls.




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