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Living an ethical life


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#1 nup

Posted 01 January 2019 - 08:57 PM

Plenty of threads about being honest but I've been fascinated to stumble into some tightly held fairly transparent secrets this year. It seems many people hold a "not my business" approach if the truth is brought to their attention. Kind of a don't rock the boat mentality where if we realise the truth it could threaten us all. Not just in families but in clubs and conmunities. I find it all quite absurd and more than disturbing.

Anyone else had similar experience and been a bit more than perplexed? I'm not sure what to make of it but at this point in my life I'm again contemplating a return to my fortress of solitude and hunkering down for an undetermined period. It was always my preferred approach, I just thought my children might thrive if I were actively involved in their early years.

Is this the dearth of community or only for those who refuse to keep the secrets? I have no family left so my younger children are still somewhat dependent on me to connect them to others. I'm confident breaking into established groups but too often find myself on the wrong side of the unspoken rules.

Edited by nup, 01 January 2019 - 08:57 PM.


#2 seayork2002

Posted 01 January 2019 - 09:05 PM

I am genuinley not sure what you are asking?

if my great grandmothers sister had 4 illegal abortions 100 years ago it does not have any actual relevance to me personally- is this what you mean? (Again genuinley asking)

#3 Sparkles66

Posted 01 January 2019 - 09:08 PM

What truth?  Can you give examples?

#4 kimasa

Posted 01 January 2019 - 09:14 PM

I'm not following...

#5 nup

Posted 01 January 2019 - 09:15 PM

One example, I contracted to a company that weren't paying staff properly. Everyone knew, nobody seemed to care, except it really was important and people would privately complain but once the issue was brought up by me who tried to rectify it as part of my role everyone denied.

Another example, a sporting club I belonged to refused to disclose financial reports or meet their legal obligations. President liked to make great noise about compliance but didn't appear to be complying.

And then there's the crowd of MLM people I have met this year pretending their "side hustle" is how they fund their lifestyles when it's clear as day that they just aren't. Later coming clean with long confessional type anti MLM posts about how dishonest they were previously when they start the latest MLM that's not an MLM.

Confused? Me too!

#6 MooGuru

Posted 01 January 2019 - 09:53 PM

MLM - I suspect is delusion; people want to believe it then their eyes get opened up when the dream collapses and then they fall for the exact same type of scam again.

Work scenario - if people have something to lose in a situation they are already disempowered in (employee/employer) they risk a lot speaking out. Whistleblowers are hardly heralded as heroes in this country.

#7 CallMeFeral

Posted 01 January 2019 - 10:19 PM

So you're saying that you've seen lots of dishonesty and are wondering if it's widespread? And you're linking it to getting involved with community groups?

#8 Pearson

Posted 02 January 2019 - 03:10 AM

It is because people don't want to be seen as trouble makers or as failures for not succeeding.

I can tell you that being an ethical person will quite often put you on the outer. People feel like they are being preached to as they change their ethics to suit them and the situation that they are in at the time.
Ethics are such a fluid thing these days.

( I am with you nup, I seem to be way too steadfast in my ethics, and expect others who I surround myself with to have similar ethics, quite often, when the surface is scratched, the truth emerges)

#9 BadCat

Posted 02 January 2019 - 05:21 AM

I don't think anyway is always ethical.  Sometimes it's safer not to be.  And there are a lot of reasons people choose the safe option. Challenging someone else's ethics (or even doing the ethical thing yourself) can result in negative impact on your own finances, health, and even safety.

I've noticed there are few people who will genuinely stand up for what's right if it has the potential to have major negative impact on them personally.  I don't find it surprising.  Humans are a selfish species and all of us choose what is convenient over what is right at least some of the time.

#10 zenkitty

Posted 02 January 2019 - 06:51 AM

Each person will have their own ethical threshold and circumstances that mean they make different decisions to you. It is very common for underpayment to not be reported by the people impacted as they can lose their job. In the sporting example I’m sure a lot of people agree with you that proper financial conduct is important, but the only way to change an organisation is by stepping up and getting involved, maybe they just don’t have the energy and still enjoy participating.

I know my family are disappointed in me for not being more of a political/social advocate but it wears me down to fight all the time. I agree with them in principle but I’m not as driven personally to defend what is ‘right’.

#11 IamtheMumma

Posted 02 January 2019 - 07:17 AM

I have learnt not to speak up. I've lost my job twice because I said something. It makes me laugh when I do mandatory training and I read about how whistleblowers are protected. No, no they aren't.

I'm not sure where my line is these days as I have mouths to feed and I know saying something will mean I don't have a job.

#12 taters

Posted 02 January 2019 - 07:31 AM

I understand what you are saying. I am very focused on living an ethical life and so is my husband. If we met people who did unethical things then we wouldnt associate or be friends with them. We have completely cut ourselves off from groups of friends or individuals because of their behaviour.
My husband is one of those people who will stand up for what is right no matter what. He doesnt turn a blind eye, doesnt let things pass without commenting on it/calling out the behaviour or bringing it to the attention of others (ie management or police etc). I really admire this quality because while I will call out some things, most of the time I dont like to make waves (for fear of negative impact on me and my family).

#13 seayork2002

Posted 02 January 2019 - 07:45 AM

View Posttaters, on 02 January 2019 - 07:31 AM, said:

I understand what you are saying. I am very focused on living an ethical life and so is my husband. If we met people who did unethical things then we wouldnt associate or be friends with them. We have completely cut ourselves off from groups of friends or individuals because of their behaviour.
My husband is one of those people who will stand up for what is right no matter what. He doesnt turn a blind eye, doesnt let things pass without commenting on it/calling out the behaviour or bringing it to the attention of others (ie management or police etc). I really admire this quality because while I will call out some things, most of the time I dont like to make waves (for fear of negative impact on me and my family).

Although i admire the sediment does he have the right to dicate what is right or wrong?

I beleive we should stand up for what is right but who determines it? And where is the line drawn?

There is being right and being sanctimonious

#14 taters

Posted 02 January 2019 - 09:17 AM

View Postseayork2002, on 02 January 2019 - 07:45 AM, said:



Although i admire the sediment does he have the right to dicate what is right or wrong?

I beleive we should stand up for what is right but who determines it? And where is the line drawn?

There is being right and being sanctimonious


Empathy is how people relate to each other and the easiest way to know whether something will offend or cause harm. Do you need me to explain what empathy is or are you ok with looking it up?

#15 WannabeMasterchef

Posted 02 January 2019 - 09:31 AM

I dont think people with questionable morals is anything new!
Have a read of the Bible, or the Classics.

People have very different ideas of what is ethical as well.

Sorry I dont have anything more constructive to add except I guess we all need to work out our own morals and ethics and live by that but we cant control other people or what they do and believe.

#16 steppy

Posted 02 January 2019 - 09:46 AM

This is just human nature. The stronger the community, the more of it there is.

#17 EsmeLennox

Posted 02 January 2019 - 10:04 AM

View Posttaters, on 02 January 2019 - 09:17 AM, said:


Empathy is how people relate to each other and the easiest way to know whether something will offend or cause harm. Do you need me to explain what empathy is or are you ok with looking it up?

A little lacking in empathy, don’t you think? I think Seayork has a point. There are times when doing the ‘right’ thing (or a person’s perception of ‘right’) will actually offend, cause upset and perhaps even harm.

#18 Soontobegran

Posted 02 January 2019 - 10:16 AM

View Posttaters, on 02 January 2019 - 09:17 AM, said:

Empathy is how people relate to each other and the easiest way to know whether something will offend or cause harm. Do you need me to explain what empathy is or are you ok with looking it up?

I am actually not sure if you understand the definition of empathy to be honest. Empathy is a noun, not a verb.

#19 lalalove

Posted 02 January 2019 - 10:19 AM

Sorry what is MLM?

#20 TrixieBelden

Posted 02 January 2019 - 10:23 AM

View Posttaters, on 02 January 2019 - 07:31 AM, said:

I understand what you are saying. I am very focused on living an ethical life and so is my husband. If we met people who did unethical things then we wouldnt associate or be friends with them. We have completely cut ourselves off from groups of friends or individuals because of their behaviour.
My husband is one of those people who will stand up for what is right no matter what. He doesnt turn a blind eye, doesnt let things pass without commenting on it/calling out the behaviour or bringing it to the attention of others (ie management or police etc). I really admire this quality because while I will call out some things, most of the time I dont like to make waves (for fear of negative impact on me and my family).

This sounds very judgmental. In what ways do you review your own lives to be sure you’re meeting the standards you expect of others? How well does your husband take it when others ‘call out’ his flaws?

OP it’s easy enough to understand how it happens that people turn a blind eye - just think of all the times you’ve done it and you’ll see what some of the reasons are.

Every day I’m not out there protesting about injustices carried out by this government in my name is a day I’m turning a blind eye. Along with a whole host of other examples from my own life.

#21 Tinkle Splashes

Posted 02 January 2019 - 11:01 AM

View Postzenkitty, on 02 January 2019 - 06:51 AM, said:

I’m sure a lot of people agree with you that proper financial conduct is important, but the only way to change an organisation is by stepping up and getting involved, maybe they just don’t have the energy and still enjoy participating.

This is so true. My parents belong to a sporting club that was having similar issues with financial transparency. My dad got himself elected to the committee concerned. It turned out that the previous person in his role had actually been stealing. For years. By getting involved my dad was able to end the stealing.

#22 seayork2002

Posted 02 January 2019 - 11:24 AM

View PostTinkle Splashes, on 02 January 2019 - 11:01 AM, said:



This is so true. My parents belong to a sporting club that was having similar issues with financial transparency. My dad got himself elected to the committee concerned. It turned out that the previous person in his role had actually been stealing. For years. By getting involved my dad was able to end the stealing.

Imo that is a good example of actually doing good, if he just sat back and said 'they are doing it all wrong i could do it better' is not (not saying he would! but i meet a lot who do)

#23 kimasa

Posted 02 January 2019 - 11:35 AM

View Postlalalove, on 02 January 2019 - 10:19 AM, said:

Sorry what is MLM?

Multi-level marketing.

Things like Avon, Tupperware, Scentsy, DoTerra and so on.

#24 MooGuru

Posted 02 January 2019 - 11:45 AM

View PostEsmeLennox, on 02 January 2019 - 10:04 AM, said:



A little lacking in empathy, don’t you think? I think Seayork has a point. There are times when doing the ‘right’ thing (or a person’s perception of ‘right’) will actually offend, cause upset and perhaps even harm.
Same sex marriage is an example - I have a friend who is a born again Christian who was absolutely and completely certain that her and her church staunchly opposing SSM was ethically and morally the right thing to do. They gave mountains of sermons about the persecution of Christians etc etc.

My ethics supported SSM - wholly and completely and I generally surrounded myself with like minded people.

There's no middle ground where the sides overlapped so we can't both have been ethically right. Yet in our own minds and in the minds of those we surrounded ourselves with we were both convinced we were the ones in the right.

#25 steppy

Posted 02 January 2019 - 11:50 AM

I think everyone just has their own ethics. The Anne Frank example - some people would feel that it was ethically correct to dob in the hiders of Anne Frank because what they were doing was clearly against the law of the time. Others would feel that it was morally wrong to kill people just because they were Jewish and would either hide or ignore any evidence of hiding Anne Frank. Who is right? I know what I'd do, and if one of the others thought I was wrong for not dobbing in Anne Frank, my mind would make a mental farting sound in their general direction.




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