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Is green poos mandatory for a allergy/intolerance?


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#76 daisychaon

Posted 21 March 2019 - 03:43 PM

Thank goodness your CHN is on the ball.

I am so glad she has the same take on the situation.

Let’s hope the paed is the same. This is pretty much an emergency situation of FTT (failure to thrive) so you should be seen and/or get a script ASAP, as you say.

You have done absolutely awesomely. Probably anyone else would be in hospital with their baby with dehydration. You guys have been so across everything and somehow managed to get milk into your baby. I am so impressed. You will not know yourselves when it is actually the right milk.

I think everyone on here has been through extremely similar struggles which are hard to understand unless you’ve been there. I think I speak for everyone when I say we are trying hard to stop others suffering the way we did. I totally relate to your feelings of uncertainty, second guessing yourself and your doctors, I felt like I must be making it all up. Can’t imagine how much harder when it’s your first child and you have no baseline for comparison.

Ring that paed office every day and don’t give up- back yourselves 100%- you are right, your baby needs an elemental!

We’re here to listen anytime.

#77 MooGuru

Posted 21 March 2019 - 06:23 PM

Don't apologise.
I really regret that I allowed myself to be convinced that I was the problem. That I wasn't coping parenting a normal child.

I wish I'd turned to somewhere like here to have people around me able to say "you aren't imagining this" "this isn't normal"

Good luck. You can try asking your GP for a referral to an allergy specialist if you aren't getting anywhere with the paed.

#78 Wonderstruck

Posted 22 March 2019 - 06:53 AM

View PostMooGuru, on 21 March 2019 - 06:23 PM, said:

Don't apologise.
I really regret that I allowed myself to be convinced that I was the problem. That I wasn't coping parenting a normal child.

I wish I'd turned to somewhere like here to have people around me able to say "you aren't imagining this" "this isn't normal"

Good luck. You can try asking your GP for a referral to an allergy specialist if you aren't getting anywhere with the paed.

This so much. I was made to believe I was just a FTM who didnt understand babies. It wasnt until the nurses at Tresillian told me that I was doing all the right things and her reflux was just that bad until I started to stop seeing the doctors that didnt help me and seek out others. Unfortunately I saw another bad bunch and it took me time to find the doctors that listened and helped.

It affects me to this day and I still second guess that I'm right when I should be trusting my gut. The light bulb moment for me was after having a gastro paed dismiss she was cmpi and tell me not to try a different formula I ended up doing it anyway and then had him say at the next appointment "oh I thought I would have mentioned she might be cmpi". I found a new gastro paed after that.

I would consider getting a referral to a paed allergist or gastro paed as the waitlist can be long. If you're in Sydney and want a recommendation let me know - I can also mention the one I wouldnt recommend.

#79 Ellie bean

Posted 22 March 2019 - 10:31 AM

It’s such a familiar story isn’t it, I went through similar with the medical profession too. Don’t apologise OP, anyone who has been through it would want to help other parents get through it.

#80 Davidoff-sensei

Posted 22 March 2019 - 11:13 AM

We managed to get into the paediatrician yesterday and got a script for elecare, and he wants us to swap from nexium to zantac. We haven't swapped to zantac yet because we didnt want to do 2 things at once and get confused if theres a problem.

He's had 4 bottles of it so far but it isnt going well ... he has screamed after each bottle something shocking. A blood curdling scream ... i just don't get it. Is the change just flaring up his reflux?

Its really thin but i didn't think it was much thinner than allerpro. I really want to stick with it and i will for a few more days at least but he seems much much worse. Even his 2am feed he ended up screaming and he never screams at that feed ... wasn't happy this morning around 7am when waking up and he always is happy at that time. Its one of the only times he is happy.

I have aptamil thickener which i've tried using and it clogs all my teats even the level 3's ... im going to have to go get some variable flow ones.

From what i can tell there's nothing he can react to in these formulas? I've seen some people say there baby reacted to corn syrup in it ... but its not even the protein part of corn so highly unlikely (funny thing is nexium has corn in it ... which we feel made him worse, again i know it might not be that) Also the thickener has corn in it which we think gave him a rash the first time we used it.

Im just so lost ... i read so many people who get onto amino acid formulas and there babies are amazing from the first bottle or they see changes straight away.

He screams seem far more refluxy now, he's had a big spit up after every bottle and then just absolutely goes crazy.

Edited by Davidoff-sensei, 22 March 2019 - 11:16 AM.


#81 Zeppelina

Posted 22 March 2019 - 11:20 AM

Oh no, that sounds really hard for all of you! How much milk is he drinking of the new formula, OP? (Is he drinking the whole bottle, or is he still only having small amounts?)

#82 Acidulous Osprey

Posted 22 March 2019 - 11:25 AM

It's possible to react to elemental formulas.  I'd be ringing the paed today to discuss what you are observing.

My guy is fine on alfamino but neocate was a disaster.

#83 Davidoff-sensei

Posted 22 March 2019 - 11:33 AM

View PostZeppelina, on 22 March 2019 - 11:20 AM, said:

Oh no, that sounds really hard for all of you! How much milk is he drinking of the new formula, OP? (Is he drinking the whole bottle, or is he still only having small amounts?)

He's not finishing bottles but he wasn't before this ...

For example he had 90ml at 2am ... 60ml 7am and 100ml at 10am.

All 120ml bottles which he should easily be finishing after 4-5 hours between them.

Simply can't get anymore than that in him .. even that is an extra 10 mins or so persevering with him on each bottle.

Edited by Davidoff-sensei, 22 March 2019 - 11:47 AM.


#84 Davidoff-sensei

Posted 23 March 2019 - 09:41 AM

Can anyone please help - i have rang the pediatrician he says just to keep going.

This is insane he is 100 x worse. I've never seen his silent reflux this bad ever. He just wont stop screaming no matter what we do. Won't even touch a bottle now, could be a reaction?

He is coughing and choking non-stop its just ridiculous.

https://www.youtube....eature=youtu.be

Hopefully that link works.

Im just beside myself.

#85 Wonderstruck

Posted 23 March 2019 - 10:06 AM

View PostDavidoff-sensei, on 23 March 2019 - 09:41 AM, said:

Can anyone please help - i have rang the pediatrician he says just to keep going.

This is insane he is 100 x worse. I've never seen his silent reflux this bad ever. He just wont stop screaming no matter what we do. Won't even touch a bottle now, could be a reaction?

He is coughing and choking non-stop its just ridiculous.

https://www.youtube....eature=youtu.be

Hopefully that link works.

Im just beside myself.

I would sit in emergency at a children's hospital if possible and refuse to leave until you are admitted for observation.

I really am not sure what to try next but something is up. Whether it's the formula or medication I'm not sure. There are a variety of amino acid formulas and medications and finding the right mix is essential.

Also ask to be referred to a paed gasto.

On the bad days I would try some dymadon or baby panadol (she preferred dymadon) to see if it would help the pain.

I've been there and felt this hopeless. I dont know how else to help :( I know how awful it is

#86 Ellie bean

Posted 23 March 2019 - 10:25 AM

I’d take him off the neocate, back onto what he was on and like pp says, sit in emergency and push to get admitted/ see a gastro paed. My dd did not do well in neocate but nothing like that. Take the video with you. I wish I knew how to help too. Fronting up to emergency did eventually get my dd admitted and things improved from there. I wish I could help.

#87 Davidoff-sensei

Posted 23 March 2019 - 10:47 AM

Definitely taking him off elecare, just feels irresponsible not to at this stage.

I fail to see how the thinness of it can cause this much change, allerpro and pepti are pretty damn thin. We never thickened them once and he was fine.

There was a clear change in him on the first bottle, like i said he actually cried on his 2am feed when he's basically asleep. He has never once done that in his life. That feed is my favourite feed so i know.

I have been to emergency three times now and the third time they kind of hinted that what we were there for wasn't an emergency. He's eating (albeit not much) and has been checked over 3 times now and they just say he's fine and basically say we need to see our paediatrician.

I think i need to get into a gastro paed as well, my paed said he has a good one thats how he got my script.

Will have to wait till Monday and call ... i had such high hopes honestly im just so frustrated. Im scared to try another amino acid formula.

#88 Ellie bean

Posted 23 March 2019 - 10:51 AM

Is there a children’s hospital near you? That’s where I had some luck with admission, was about the third time I was there too.
First time I explained that dd had been screaming non stop for over 12 hours and the doctor checked she didn’t have a hair wrapped around her finger or toe, because apparently he’d seen that once, and sent us home- seriously he had no idea. Ridiculous.

#89 tinselfoil hat

Posted 23 March 2019 - 10:55 AM

Another emergency :( this doesn’t seem right. Reading your story has me in tears. A little too familiar and I wish you the best. Doubly hard this is coinciding with a weekend, but maybe it will work to your advantage if your paed is unavailable - emergency may be the only option.

#90 Wonderstruck

Posted 23 March 2019 - 11:01 AM

Elecare contains soy oil which some super sensitive babies react to. We were ok on it but you could ask for alfamino or neocate.

Just a thought.

Go back to the pepti and get into a paed gastro.

I hate that emergency treat us like this. It really is not normal and unfair

#91 MooGuru

Posted 23 March 2019 - 11:24 AM

If this is an option financially for you, we were treated very differently at a private hospital emergency after having been sent home multiple times from the kids hospital.

Admittedly it quickly became apparent it was a serious emergency but he had been in a fairly bad way previously too when we were discharged - this time was just crisis point.

The only other thing I can think of is contacting sleep schools and seeing if they can see you as an emergency (I believe some are doing assessments via video call now). You'd need to tailor your info so it's less focused on feeding and more about how unsettled/distressed he is and having run out of ways you know how to settle him.

#92 PrincessPeach

Posted 23 March 2019 - 05:42 PM

Late to the party but seconding a private hospital emergency room if you can afford it - especially if that private hospital also has a maternity department as it means there is a qualified paediatrician on call 24/7 rather than just the registrar (not that there is anything wrong with registrars but when you get complex cases experience can sometimes help diagnosis).

I was so out of it last time I was in emergency with my son I thought nothing of the paediatrician visiting us - until the nurses on the ward said something.

#93 daisychaon

Posted 23 March 2019 - 10:03 PM

I am profoundly sorry to hear what you are going through. I honestly had such high hopes for you with the elemental.
I remember reading forums where people discussed an adjustment period with elementals where their babies got far worse before they got better... could it maybe be that? Who knows?
The uncertainty is the absolute worst. It’s so hard to deal with.
We have corn allergy. All the elementals have corn syrup (even the ones labeled glucose syrup - still derived from corn, it’s just there is no mandatory labeling requirement so they don’t all list it). We are fine on neocate, but as you say potentially very severely allergic babies could potentially react to traces of corn in the syrup I guess. Interesting that nexium contains corn. Not sure about losec? We were always okay on losec.
I have no real knowledge or experience to share re elementals in infants- we breastfed so I don’t feel qualified to give advice in this arena so will bow out and leave you in the capable hands of the gurus on here. I’m so so so sorry, I feel bad for encouraging you to go for an elemental formula, I seriously believed it was the way to go. I wish you all the very best and wish I could have helped you more, I feel like I’ve only made things worse... I pray you and your precious little man get some comfort soon.

#94 Davidoff-sensei

Posted 24 March 2019 - 10:27 AM

So he's already better being on Pepti since lunch time yesterday. He only had 400ml yesterday ... but has already had 250ml today.

He's more settled, not amazing but at least not screaming ... no idea what happened with elecare.

Managed to get a hold of the on call paediatrician who works at the same office as ours. He dropped off some neocate syneo at the hospital for us to pick up which was great. He actually said to stop Nexium and switch to Zantac, he thinks if he's reacting to elecare it could be the corn which nexium is based on.

Im still hesitant to start another amino acid formula really ... since stopping nexium and elecare yesterday he seems relatively ok. Can at least put him down somewhere or in a bouncer without him screaming. I kind of want to get him back to a baseline where i know what to expect with him day to day then try neocate otherwise its so hard to know whats working. If i try neocate now and he screams im going to panic but it might not even be that.

He finally poo'd this morning and strangely i think it might be his best poo? It looks different to any of his poo's before but i'd have to say i think its mucus free. Its his first poo from the elecare which is annoying cause i think it looks good?

https://imgur.com/a/5c89EoF (poo pic)

#95 Davidoff-sensei

Posted 25 March 2019 - 03:28 PM

I also forgot to mention we had him checked for ties at an actual tongue tie clinic.

They said he has both a tongue and upper lip tie that would be causing him issues ... when i mentioned ties to our paediatrician he looked in his mouth and said he's absolutely fine and he see's 100's of babies with mouthes exactly like his.

It's hard not to jump on a surgery that could potentially help your baby but from a gut feeling and the paediatrician's response i feel like its not worth getting them lasered.

Also daisychaon you have nothing to apologise for, i appreciate you trying to help. He may still need to be on an amino acid based formula still, elecare just might not have worked.

For now im going to keep him on pepti for at least a week to re-evaluate and then wean him slowly onto neocate if theres mucus in poos etc still.

#96 daisychaon

Posted 25 March 2019 - 03:38 PM

Thanks davidoff-sensei, that’s very kind of you.
Sounds like a good plan. Agree latest poo pic looks better... may take a few days to really “see” elecare in poo tho I guess... stay tuned!
Re tongue ties, I would be extremely cautious/skeptical and would seek another opinion from a paed speech path who works at a tertiary children’s hospital before jumping in with laser- ties are the flavor of the month and there are a few people out there getting very overexcited about them... could potentially do harm so I wouldn’t go forward with a procedure without an expert opinion from someone outside a so-called specialist tie clinic... just my opinion

#97 Wonderstruck

Posted 25 March 2019 - 04:27 PM

Glad to hear things are a little better. Keep us posted.

#98 Davidoff-sensei

Posted 26 March 2019 - 11:23 AM

https://imgur.com/a/5GMuDLp

Is this poo considered normal?

I've read black poo can be undigested blood, its more a very very dark green but almost black. He was also very very uncomfortable when getting that poo out ... took about 20 mins to be over and the whole time he was stiff as a board and going bright red while upset.

This is since being on pepti jnr ... yesterday and today he's still having massive screaming bouts like the video above and he's just unhappy all day. Can barely get a smile out of him and cant put him down anywhere without him instantly crying its exhausting.

Holding him calms him slightly for about 5-10 mins then he'll start up again. I dont know whether its just a phase type thing or whether something isn't right.

He has started trying to basically eat his entire fist to the point of gagging and drooling all day ... which i've read could be teething but its pretty early.

#99 AdelTwins

Posted 26 March 2019 - 11:38 AM

That looks like so normal colour for a Pepti Jr poo.

ETA - it will take a few weeks for the bowel to heal and pooing to be more normal. It will still be very dark though. Not saying you don’t have other issues, but you need to give the formula time.

Edited by AdelTwins, 26 March 2019 - 11:40 AM.


#100 AdelTwins

Posted 26 March 2019 - 11:41 AM

Also, have you tried to give a dose of Panadol to see if that helps? That would help you to understand if it’s a pain issue or something else.




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