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Help please - Advice on Expulsion UPDATE #51


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#26 MrsWidget

Posted 03 April 2019 - 04:03 PM

Where are you located Winging it Mum? The one I used is in NSW.

It’s been one of the hardest things we’ve been through. What angers me is they don’t put the supports in place then wonder why they don’t cope.

#27 MsLaurie

Posted 03 April 2019 - 05:14 PM

Can he perhaps be suspended for the first two weeks of term instead of expelled, with the idea that 4 weeks break (suspension + school holidays) will give time for meds adjustment to potentially work? If they’ve been supportive so far, they might agree to that, with the rest of term two as probationary in some way?

#28 *bucket*

Posted 03 April 2019 - 07:01 PM

My DD was "excluded" from a private school. She took an overdose in Term 4 of Year 8, and the school was very difficult about her returning, despite medical advice she go back as soon as possible (after a couple of weeks in hospital). They then promised support and we, stupidly in hindsight, believed them. She started Year 9 there and we had endless problems. They "suspended" her (not officially, no paperwork) a few times. Blamed her for anything that went wrong and then told us she wasn't welcome back for Term 3. We ended up home schooling for the rest of that year, and then she went to a local public school for Year 10.

But the experience at the private school nearly destroyed her, her self esteem was about zero. From an already fragile state she was reduced to misery. Our DS was in Year 12 at the time and it was really tough on the whole family. DD ended up dropping out in Year 11.

I would be cautious about having your DS see out the year at the private school without some very definite support as it could get very difficult. But the previous suggestion to give him a longer break and time for new meds or dosage changes to work sounds good.

I hope this all works out well for your family.

#29 Winging it Mum

Posted 04 April 2019 - 07:55 AM

It's tricky, I've asked on a FB page that is set up for ASD parents in SA & I asked about the public high school I was zoned in. Things came up that I was aware of & they were a school that were in the news a number of years ago for a lot of issues. So I took those responses with a grain of salt. However there was not one positive piece of feedback which was surprising.
We have one HS that we are zoned to so that's very limiting. I wouldn't mind so much if it felt like there were options.

Up until now he has loved his current school - even when there were difficulties that we were struggling with. Now he's focused on being expelled and he's anxious about that because he's adamant he doesn't want to go. So it's all coming out in his behavior at home and at school. He's not helping but he also can't help it.

MsLaurie, thank you for that thought about the suspension & school hols, that may be something they will work with.

I've found out though we're seeing the principal and middle school head so I'm not confident.

#30 José

Posted 04 April 2019 - 08:51 AM

View PostWinging it Mum, on 04 April 2019 - 07:55 AM, said:

Now he's focused on being expelled and he's anxious about that because he's adamant he doesn't want to go. So it's all coming out in his behavior at home and at school. He's not helping but he also can't help it. [/sup]

MsLaurie, thank you for that thought about the suspension & school hols, that may be something they will work with.

I've found out though we're seeing the principal and middle school head so I'm not confident.

even if they don't proceed with expulsion now and give him another chance it may still be on his mind, making it hard to be at his best.


#31 Winging it Mum

Posted 04 April 2019 - 10:20 AM

It's hard already for him. He did not want to go to school today & he's been removed from some classes due to swearing & saying the wrong thing in class.

He'll be staying home tomorrow, it's not worth the angst.

#32 Abernathy

Posted 04 April 2019 - 12:42 PM

It sounds as if the school has been fantastic with him so far. Maybe they’ll suggest an alternative to expulsion.  It must be tricky for them trying to do the right thing by all parties.

#33 Gumbette

Posted 04 April 2019 - 01:19 PM

View Postjust roses, on 02 April 2019 - 11:32 PM, said:

The problem is, private schools (more the smaller independent schools, rather than the elite schools) have a tendency to promise the world to get enrolments. Schools might talk up their differentiation and their learning support, but the reality falls far short of the promises.

That's our school - promised the world and then told us we were too hard (AFTER ONE MONTH - YES ONE!).  We pulled DS out at the end of last year - he's now in a satellite class within a mainstream catholic school.  This is only a temporary measure as he will need to go back to mainstream.  The private school have held his place, but I'm not sure.  The only thing keeping us there is that DD is there also and flourishing.

I would look for another more understanding school OP.  I can't tell you how much easier my day is not waiting for the school to ring and ask me to pick him up. The only time I hear about any 'behaviours' now is at the end of the day when the teachers let me know if something has happened and how it was handled.

#34 Mands09

Posted 04 April 2019 - 06:39 PM

Just because you are zoned for that public school doesn’t mean you won’t be able to enrol your son in another school that is more capable of meeting his needs. In any event you should reach out and chat to the public schools.

It all comes down to the attitude of the principal and teaching execs.

Whilst your sons school may have been fantastic and supportive it doesn’t mean they will continue to be so. Once they feel it’s ‘too hard’ you’ll quickly feel quite unwelcome until you are forced to leave.

Good luck at your meeting.

#35 2bundles

Posted 04 April 2019 - 08:45 PM

View PostWinging it Mum, on 04 April 2019 - 10:20 AM, said:

It's hard already for him. He did not want to go to school today & he's been removed from some classes due to swearing & saying the wrong thing in class.

He'll be staying home tomorrow, it's not worth the angst.

I would be keeping him home until you sort the meds.

#36 Winging it Mum

Posted 06 April 2019 - 01:49 PM

Meeting went as well as could be expected. He's not expelled but they cannot have any more incidents otherwise he will be.

Do we feel they are equipped or wanting to educate now, no. He gave me some emails the teachers have sent & for some of it I'm like ok, that's valid because his behaviour in class is not acceptable. Some of it though, was how worn out they are going to be as a teacher with having to deal with this for the whole year & how exhausting he is. Whilst some of that is also valid, part of me is feeling you're a little precious and there are teachers that have done this every year & you only have him for a few lessons a week. You have no idea what teachers in public schools have to contend with.

I questioned why were these discussions not had last year if they felt they could not cope, but that got brushed off because obviously Middle School doesn't communicate to Junior School even though they are on the same campus and share the same staff room.

They are more than happy to help with a transition to a new school but if we decide to stay, they of course will do what they can - which doesn't sound like much. There is still that expulsion hanging there though.

Next week he's to go to school but we play it by ear & he will staying in a room at recess & lunch so as not to get into any more physical trouble at school. He'll stay home one day but they really want him to attend Easter service on Thursday - seriously!

Anyway, this is me just tapping out our thoughts. DH & I are thinking along these lines..
- not to rush into a decision. They're like oh you've got 3 weeks 'til next term to think about it. Um, no because after this week we'll be lucky to get any info out any school because it's holidays the next two!
- Psychologist has asked to go to school & observe, I will see if they the school will allow this - even if it's to help for a new school not just them.
- Meet with schools & see what we think.
- Try & work out how to cover not having OSHC if he goes to a public HS next year
- With my Dad having treatment, to not make any changes for next term.
- talk to his Psychiatrist & see whether we should test for anything further including intellectual disability. From conversations with a couple of schools yesterday, without this it would be impossible to get into a disability unit in a school.
- hope that changing meds will have some positive effect for DS himself.

Once we have all that to try & work out do we just suck it up this year but next year move or move in Term 3.

We have told DS he's not expelled but he cannot say what he's been saying in class or hurt anyone. I don't have the heart to tell him yet that we might have to find another school for him yet.

#37 Expelliarmus

Posted 06 April 2019 - 02:05 PM

If he’s already in high school the chances of a disability unit in the public system will be very low to non existent, even with an intellectual Disability diagnosis. Usually students who were in a special class or unit in primary school can access a high school place but students who weren’t in a special class or unit in Year 7 don’t usually get into special classes/units for high school.

There should be someone onsite for most of the days during school holidays. The first week is the most likely time to catch someone.

I would ask if he’s staying in a room for recess and lunch, when they will supervise him to get some fresh air, exercise and movement. It’s setting him up to fail if he isn’t allowed physical movement and break time. If they can supervise him in a room then why can’t they supervise him outside. Perhaps in a restricted area, but it sounds like a disaster waiting to happen to me.

Good luck with the decision making and for your son.

#38 Winging it Mum

Posted 06 April 2019 - 02:14 PM

Thanks Expelli - helps to know about next week.
They have never supervised him outside - that part is a train wreck. But I will ask though about fresh air etc.. that's a good point.

#39 Expelliarmus

Posted 06 April 2019 - 04:27 PM

View PostWinging it Mum, on 06 April 2019 - 02:14 PM, said:

They have never supervised him outside - that part is a train wreck.
Sounds like they should have been ...

I was just re-reading the thread and saw he's in Year 7 and you were worried about the 'double transition' given he's going to High School next year. Is there a possibility you are able to send him to an R-12 school? That will minimise the transition and there are a number around now.

#40 2bundles

Posted 07 April 2019 - 07:23 AM

Have you revised his meds?  I would be very hesitant to send him until his meds are right.   If this school has had him for 7 years, then maybe he will be ok once the dose is adjusted. I know my DS would not survive at his school without meds.

#41 José

Posted 07 April 2019 - 07:51 AM

View PostWinging it Mum, on 06 April 2019 - 01:49 PM, said:

Meeting went as well as could be expected. He's not expelled but they cannot have any more incidents otherwise he will be.

Do we feel they are equipped or wanting to educate now, no. He gave me some emails the teachers have sent & for some of it I'm like ok, that's valid because his behaviour in class is not acceptable. Some of it though, was how worn out they are going to be as a teacher with having to deal with this for the whole year & how exhausting he is. Whilst some of that is also valid, part of me is feeling you're a little precious and there are teachers that have done this every year & you only have him for a few lessons a week. You have no idea what teachers in public schools have to contend with.

I questioned why were these discussions not had last year if they felt they could not cope, but that got brushed off because obviously Middle School doesn't communicate to Junior School even though they are on the same campus and share the same staff room.

They are more than happy to help with a transition to a new school but if we decide to stay, they of course will do what they can - which doesn't sound like much. There is still that expulsion hanging there though.

Next week he's to go to school but we play it by ear & he will staying in a room at recess & lunch so as not to get into any more physical trouble at school. He'll stay home one day but they really want him to attend Easter service on Thursday - seriously!

Anyway, this is me just tapping out our thoughts. DH & I are thinking along these lines..
- not to rush into a decision. They're like oh you've got 3 weeks 'til next term to think about it. Um, no because after this week we'll be lucky to get any info out any school because it's holidays the next two!
- Psychologist has asked to go to school & observe, I will see if they the school will allow this - even if it's to help for a new school not just them.
- Meet with schools & see what we think.
- Try & work out how to cover not having OSHC if he goes to a public HS next year
- With my Dad having treatment, to not make any changes for next term.
- talk to his Psychiatrist & see whether we should test for anything further including intellectual disability. From conversations with a couple of schools yesterday, without this it would be impossible to get into a disability unit in a school.
- hope that changing meds will have some positive effect for DS himself.

Once we have all that to try & work out do we just suck it up this year but next year move or move in Term 3.

We have told DS he's not expelled but he cannot say what he's been saying in class or hurt anyone. I don't have the heart to tell him yet that we might have to find another school for him yet.

so you have a psychologist involved?
they are the ones to talk to about intellectual disability.  its psychologists who assess for and diagnose intellectual disability.

as for changing schools i think gathering info ASAP is a good move.
ideally, you wouldnt need to change but its possible this is going to be out of your hands. and the timing may also be out of your control.
you're saying the teachers are already feeling stressed and overwhelmed at having to manage your child. it sounds like they feel like expulsion is inevitable.  they say they are helping but it doesn't sound like they are doing all they can.  eg not providing outside supervision.  
your DS has had some difficult behaviours. whats changing to make sure it doesnt happen again? is everything resting on change of meds?

i guess the disadvantage of changing schools is that its a transition. whats the advantages of staying?  if he was going well theres lots of advantages but if he continues to struggle..?


#42 CCABW

Posted 07 April 2019 - 08:00 AM

On the oshc point, can you look at a nanny/uni student set up to collect and bring home for the days you are working?

Big hugs. It all sounds awfully stressful.

#43 Abernathy

Posted 07 April 2019 - 08:33 AM

OP you sound as if you feel the current school has been pretty good with him (for the most part) and so I would be reluctant to throw that away by moving him. I tend to agree with pps that maybe keeping him home (extending the school holidays) until his meds are reviewed might be a better option. Having a supportive school is priceless.

#44 José

Posted 07 April 2019 - 11:06 AM

View PostAbernathy, on 07 April 2019 - 08:33 AM, said:

OP you sound as if you feel the current school has been pretty good with him (for the most part) and so I would be reluctant to throw that away by moving him. I tend to agree with pps that maybe keeping him home (extending the school holidays) until his meds are reviewed might be a better option. Having a supportive school is priceless.

i agree that the OP thinks the school has mostly been ok.
I wonder if either thats beginning to change or if the OP has reasonably low expectations - encouraged by the school.
i dont think its fair for the school to read the OP emails about teachers feeling stressed. and offering outdoor/ playground supervision is a pretty basic ask.


#45 BusbyWilkes

Posted 07 April 2019 - 11:29 AM

View PostJosé, on 07 April 2019 - 11:06 AM, said:



i agree that the OP thinks the school has mostly been ok.
I wonder if either thats beginning to change or if the OP has reasonably low expectations - encouraged by the school.
i dont think its fair for the school to read the OP emails about teachers feeling stressed. and offering outdoor/ playground supervision is a pretty basic ask.

Agree with this. Maybe the junior part of the school was ok, but now he is in "middle school" the expectations and support are not ok.

The benefit to moving schools for 2-3 terms this year before going to high school are that he could get to know some kids (possibly make friends) in a smaller primary school environment before starting high school. This obviously is only a benefit if the primary school feeds into the high school he would be attending.

There are definitely state to state variations, but where I am lots of kids have support in mainstream high school with the diagnosis your son has. I feel an assessment (preferably by a neuropsychologist) to assess his learning strengths and needs would be invaluable. Good luck.

#46 Winging it Mum

Posted 08 April 2019 - 10:10 AM

Thanks all, I think a lot of this is to do with the transition to Middle School & the expectations there have changed to being in Junior School. Funnily enough the actual support seemed to be more going into Middle School.

Definitely looking at lots of places & we will look outside our zone as well. I think a R-12 school would be a good option to avoid two changes for him.

The school have said this week they want him there, but DH is working from home in case he needs to collect him & we are keeping him home Weds because of his apt and there's a PFD on Friday.

It's interesting about our low expectations. In a way we've always set them low to a degree more towards DS, that way he's always exceeded them. He is amazing in his own way & we aim to find him somewhere where he'll be welcomed. Junior School were incredibly patient & all but two teachers in seven years have been really wonderful. Maybe our expectations for what we should expect were lower than what they should have been & perhaps there were some warning signs that we missed to. As parents we're not blameless in this either.

I was given a printout of emails & what has been discussed at weekly meetings about DS. From this we can see they are "building a case" to justify a future expulsion but we won't be bullied into jumping at the first school that has to take him. We envisage if he's not out of there by the end of this year, he won't be there for Yr 8.

Thanks everyone, every comment has given us something to think about to. It is much appreciated.

#47 José

Posted 08 April 2019 - 05:26 PM

View PostWinging it Mum, on 08 April 2019 - 10:10 AM, said:

As parents we're not blameless in this either.


i dont think you carry any blame here.
its clear you've been getting your DS the professional support he needs.
and you're being very thoughtful about your next move to make sure its as right as it can be.
all you can do is make the best decision you can with the information you have at the time. then if it doesnt work out do something different and remind yourself it was the best decision at the time.
best of luck.

#48 IamzFeralz

Posted 09 April 2019 - 06:39 AM

View PostJosé, on 07 April 2019 - 11:06 AM, said:



i agree that the OP thinks the school has mostly been ok.
I wonder if either thats beginning to change or if the OP has reasonably low expectations - encouraged by the school.
i dont think its fair for the school to read the OP emails about teachers feeling stressed. and offering outdoor/ playground supervision is a pretty basic ask.

Agreed.  I have a very similar son to Winging it Mum, they both have similar diagnoses and were both prems and are in the same year. At my son’s school, everytime he has been aggressive, he would have to walk around with the teachers on playground duty until it settled.  It was good because not only did it keep the affected children safe, my son still got to go outside and have physical activity and social contact with the staff.  

We had a problem with the aggression last year but the school handled it so well and it hasn’t been a problem since.  Our school is also a small private but they know their stuff about ASD, special needs etc.

I’d definitely get him out of their on your own terms Winging it Mum.  If they are building a case and have actually shown you emails about how stressed their teachers are (unprofessional!) it indicates they aren’t interested in solutions any longer.


#49 Winging it Mum

Posted 16 May 2019 - 10:04 AM

A bit of an update, nothing much has changed but I'm hopeful we can sort something out. If nothing else, next year we will change to the local High School who we met with.

Our plan after meeting with a local primary school & then High School for DS to attend for the last two terms near his current OSHC fell through. He's zoned for the HS, but not the PS. Not something I'm used to checking but I'm learning. It was disappointing & they knew this before we went on a school tour, so would have been nice to tell us beforehand.

So back to square one, contacted the local zoned school & we find out this week if they'll take him next term. Something about them being at capacity and how he's already in a school, so that was frustrating. It may still be ok, but argh.

Contacted the Education Dept. Disability co-ordinator so I am waiting on a call back there as we missed each other yesterday and they wanted to talk through some options based on the application for next year I'd sent through. I had told them though I want to move him this year if possible.

Meds were slightly changed & we see some improvement however his current school still seem to be intent on blaming him for everything he's doing wrong. Yes, there are some that he's been guilty of & we've talked about better ways to deal with that. There are things happening in the background that they just don't see so I really do want to get him out for next term.

So hopefully the calls we get over the next week actually sort something out, it's not just my DS getting overly anxious at the moment. :)

Thanks for listening.

#50 SelceLisbeth

Posted 16 May 2019 - 11:02 AM

Dot have time to reply properly, but thnking of you.




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