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Labor pledges to ban gay conversion therapy


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#1 gruidae

Posted 23 April 2019 - 08:02 PM

https://www.theage.c...422-p51g8x.html

Oh god the comments are horrific and if anything show exactly WHY it needs to be banned.

"Being gay is a choice", "gays suffer from worse mental and physical health in countries which liberalise laws" (flawed studies by the US Focus on the Family crew), "parental rights to decide how to help their children", "some bs about some new theory called rapid onset body dysmorphia", whatever the fudge that is but I'm assuming is christian extremist code for transgender teenagers, ""identity politics" and on and on it goes..

I can see a whole host of adults posting who are going to be sending a whole new generation of traumatised young people out to fend for themselves at too young an age before they find a way to some sort of community help. Well, guess what evil parents??? When they run from you they run to me - the atheist feminist lesbian youth worker.

What do I have that they're not capable of? An ability to stfu about any belief system I personally may hold - despite what these people assume about folk like me- to give their stories, experiences and beliefs credence as THEIR stories, experiences and beliefs.

Because the kind of damage these people do cannot be undone by yet another adult telling them what to think and who they should be.Why is that so hard?

I especially love how they assume the helping professions are out evangelising and manipulating young people to go a certain way they way they do. Classic projection.

#2 Sweet.Pea

Posted 23 April 2019 - 08:07 PM

It frustrates me that a homosexual person cannot donate blood. How are they different?

I'd rather receive blood from a homosexual person in a committed relationship than from a heterosexual person who sleeps around.

#3 BadCat

Posted 23 April 2019 - 08:12 PM

I really don't want to read the comments.  I can imagine them and that's enough.

I completely support the banning of gay conversion therapy.  It is abuse.  There is no other word for it.

#4 purplekitty

Posted 23 April 2019 - 08:14 PM

View PostSweet.Pea, on 23 April 2019 - 08:07 PM, said:

It frustrates me that a homosexual person cannot donate blood. How are they different?

I'd rather receive blood from a homosexual person in a committed relationship than from a heterosexual person who sleeps around.
Men who have sex with men.
It's up for review.

#5 rosie28

Posted 23 April 2019 - 08:25 PM

I think it’s great the ALP have put this on the table as an issue in the election, but I’m having trouble imagining how this isn’t a state issue. Hopefully they have better constitutional lawyers than, well, me.

#6 gruidae

Posted 23 April 2019 - 08:50 PM

View PostSweet.Pea, on 23 April 2019 - 08:07 PM, said:

It frustrates me that a homosexual person cannot donate blood. How are they different?

I'd rather receive blood from a homosexual person in a committed relationship than from a heterosexual person who sleeps around.
Well, the irony there is lesbians can gay men can't. Apparently we are paragons of virtue despite being the most tattooed demographic outside of footballers. As long as they're not recent ones we're good to go.

That's a pretty minor issue compared to parents actively traumatising their kids in the name of religion though. It's very close to home for me both personally and professionally and although I know I shouldn't read the comments, I can't help myself because I keep hoping things will change but they never do. I almost wish Shorten hadn't raised it because it just invites them to spew vile, like the SSM debate we had to have.

The article says there's 10 churches still pushing this, up and to including exorcisms. I know at least one of them for sure - they have branches in 3 states, specialise in exorcisms. The street kid telegraph has loud whispers that one branch of this particular church was dealing with the mentally ill couple in qld via street outreach who then mysteriously became convinced their baby had demons and drowned her in the ocean. It goes a lot further than just LGBT youth and I'd like to see them made to pull thier heads in.

Edited by gruidae, 23 April 2019 - 08:51 PM.


#7 DM. 2012

Posted 23 April 2019 - 09:22 PM

It is really sad that there are a lot of young people who commit suicide because their parents are so against who they are. I don’t get it. How can some people be so close minded, especially towards their own children. How can they make their kids feel like their is something wrong with them?

It’s not just parents. A boy at my step son’s school committed suicide a couple of years ago ago because he was bullied so much at school for being gay. His parents were fine with him being gay.  I suspect that some of these kids get this attitude from their parents.  My step-son thinks it is wrong to be gay most probably because my husband does (which p*sses me right off).

I can not imagine how it would feel to have your parents take you to conversion therapy to be “fixed”.

#8 Sweet.Pea

Posted 23 April 2019 - 09:42 PM

View PostDM. 2012, on 23 April 2019 - 09:22 PM, said:

It is really sad that there are a lot of young people who commit suicide because their parents are so against who they are. I don’t get it. How can some people be so close minded, especially towards their own children. How can they make their kids feel like their is something wrong with them?

It’s not just parents. A boy at my step son’s school committed suicide a couple of years ago ago because he was bullied so much at school for being gay. His parents were fine with him being gay.  I suspect that some of these kids get this attitude from their parents.  My step-son thinks it is wrong to be gay most probably because my husband does (which p*sses me right off).

I can not imagine how it would feel to have your parents take you to conversion therapy to be “fixed”.

Have you asked your husband why he thinks it's wrong to be gay?

#9 Just Jack

Posted 23 April 2019 - 10:41 PM

View Postrosie28, on 23 April 2019 - 08:25 PM, said:

I think it’s great the ALP have put this on the table as an issue in the election, but I’m having trouble imagining how this isn’t a state issue. Hopefully they have better constitutional lawyers than, well, me.

Probably the Commonwealth foreign affairs power, ie giving effect to various human rights international conventions?

#10 No Drama Please

Posted 24 April 2019 - 07:19 AM

I know it’s ignorant but I didn’t even know that conversation therapy was still legal. I actually thought it was something that was banned 20 years ago. I’m pretty shocked that it’s still around and being pushed as an option. Doesn’t make sense :(

#11 AxeTheMax

Posted 24 April 2019 - 07:46 AM

View PostNo Drama Please, on 24 April 2019 - 07:19 AM, said:

I know it’s ignorant but I didn’t even know that conversation therapy was still legal. I actually thought it was something that was banned 20 years ago. I’m pretty shocked that it’s still around and being pushed as an option. Doesn’t make sense :(

I am exactly the same, had no idea it was still around. What kind of person would do that to thier child or really anyone. The world is a horrible horrible place, why can't we learn from the past :(

#12 lizzzard

Posted 24 April 2019 - 08:08 AM

View PostSweet.Pea, on 23 April 2019 - 08:07 PM, said:

It frustrates me that a homosexual person cannot donate blood. How are they different?

I'd rather receive blood from a homosexual person in a committed relationship than from a heterosexual person who sleeps around.
I appreciate your sentiment but I think comments like this muddy the debate. Blood donation guidelines are based on statistical probability that the donated blood will cause risk to those it is donated to, not discrimination. I am not allowed to donate blood either, and although I’m sad I can’t do my bit (my husband contributes significantly), I accept the Red Cross needs to have controls in place for the good of everyone involved.

#13 dadwasathome

Posted 24 April 2019 - 08:13 AM

View Postlizzzard, on 24 April 2019 - 08:08 AM, said:

I appreciate your sentiment but I think comments like this muddy the debate. Blood donation guidelines are based on statistical probability that the donated blood will cause risk to those it is donated to, not discrimination. I am not allowed to donate blood either, and although I’m sad I can’t do my bit (my husband contributes significantly), I accept the Red Cross needs to have controls in place for the good of everyone involved.

Didn't the Victorian Government ban gay conversion therapy earlier this year? (I know that doesn't link to the quote, but anyhow). This may be posturing by Federal Labor, but nonetheless a good thing.

I do agree that the blood donation servcies do seem to be excessively risk averse, but they were caught with their pants down in the 1980s and took a real pounding over the tainted transfusions. Given that there is still no practical test for HIV in donated blood, moving away from the ban on men who have sex with men donating is a big step, but I think one where the risk can now be managed.

#14 tayto...

Posted 24 April 2019 - 08:14 AM

Same again, I was really naive in thinking conversion therapy was no longer happening. Although when a dear friend came out after high school, about 20 yrs ago, another “friend” suggested he could do therapy...I really hope she doesn’t still hold such views but she definitely could. It’s so sad and horrifying that people are still going through this.

#15 Lunafreya

Posted 24 April 2019 - 08:32 AM

Quote

I do agree that the blood donation servcies do seem to be excessively risk averse, but they were caught with their pants down in the 1980s and took a real pounding over the tainted transfusions. Given that there is still no practical test for HIV in donated blood, moving away from the ban on men who have sex with men donating is a big step, but I think one where the risk can now be managed.

I think it can be managed a bit more if we only have male couples who are not HIV positive and in purely monogamous relationships allowed to donate. Sort of similar to heterosexual couples, male to male is a bit more riskier though

I do completely understand why there was the ban though as there were quite a number of people (including children) who were infected with HIV in the 1980s through blood transfusions.

#16 molinero

Posted 24 April 2019 - 09:16 AM

View Postgruidae, on 23 April 2019 - 08:02 PM, said:


"Being gay is a choice", "gays suffer from worse mental and physical health in countries which liberalise laws" (flawed studies by the US Focus on the Family crew), "parental rights to decide how to help their children", "some bs about some new theory called rapid onset body dysmorphia", whatever the fudge that is but I'm assuming is christian extremist code for transgender teenagers, ""identity politics" and on and on it goes.


The USA is one of only a handful of countries that has not ratified the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, after much lobbying from Christian fundamentalist "parental rights" loudmouths.

It's a super red flag as to why we should give zero credence to any such "studies" that have been done in the USA.

I hope this becomes THE key election issue. End this bullsh*t now.

#17 rosie28

Posted 24 April 2019 - 10:38 AM

View PostJust Jack, on 23 April 2019 - 10:41 PM, said:



Probably the Commonwealth foreign affairs power, ie giving effect to various human rights international conventions?

That could work. As could getting the states involved to do it under health laws.

#18 Soontobegran

Posted 24 April 2019 - 11:08 AM

Gay Conversion therapy is not going to stop just because Bill Shorten says he will ban it.
To be honest he is really minimising the enormous issue it is and this all sounds like a vote grabber.

Gay Conversion is a backyard therapy, it will stay that way.


No I am not a Liberal voter but let's get real Bill.

#19 purplekitty

Posted 24 April 2019 - 11:15 AM

View PostSoontobegran, on 24 April 2019 - 11:08 AM, said:

Gay Conversion therapy is not going to stop just because Bill Shorten says he will ban it.
To be honest he is really minimising the enormous issue it is and this all sounds like a vote grabber.

Gay Conversion is a backyard therapy, it will stay that way.


No I am not a Liberal voter but let's get real Bill.
That could apply to many things which don't stop just because they are against law,we still make laws.

Health professionals will be very wary about being involved in something that is illegal and unfortunately HCPs are involved.
Illegal status does give people pause and advertising stops.
Forcing minors will be illegal.

#20 People

Posted 24 April 2019 - 11:19 AM

I'm a bit wary of this policy. While I wholeheartedly agree with a ban on actual gay conversion, the term 'gay conversion' also incorporates treatment for kids and teens who are questioning whether they might be trans. I've read some articles (I think from the UK but I don't have time at the moment to try to source them, sorry) about psychiatrists only being able to affirm a possible trans identity, any other exploration of other causes which might in impacting on a teen's perception of their own gender is considered 'conversion' and not allowed.

If a ban means that possibilities other than being transgender are not considered and professionals are forced to affirm the self-identity of all possible transgender teens without any discussion or examination, I wouldn't support it. I would be useful for the discussion I think if we could separate out treatment of homosexuals (which I can't see any need for) and treatment of people questioning their gender, which could be useful for some people.

#21 purplekitty

Posted 24 April 2019 - 11:34 AM

View PostPeople, on 24 April 2019 - 11:19 AM, said:

I'm a bit wary of this policy. While I wholeheartedly agree with a ban on actual gay conversion, the term 'gay conversion' also incorporates treatment for kids and teens who are questioning whether they might be trans. I've read some articles (I think from the UK but I don't have time at the moment to try to source them, sorry) about psychiatrists only being able to affirm a possible trans identity, any other exploration of other causes which might in impacting on a teen's perception of their own gender is considered 'conversion' and not allowed.

If a ban means that possibilities other than being transgender are not considered and professionals are forced to affirm the self-identity of all possible transgender teens without any discussion or examination, I wouldn't support it. I would be useful for the discussion I think if we could separate out treatment of homosexuals (which I can't see any need for) and treatment of people questioning their gender, which could be useful for some people.
This is a narrative put forward by the ACL among others,do you have evidence it is a problem?

#22 Soontobegran

Posted 24 April 2019 - 11:55 AM

View Postpurplekitty, on 24 April 2019 - 11:15 AM, said:

That could apply to many things which don't stop just because they are against law,we still make laws.

Health professionals will be very wary about being involved in something that is illegal and unfortunately HCPs are involved.
Illegal status does give people pause and advertising stops.
Forcing minors will be illegal.

I'd agree with you if it was mainstream HCP involved in Gay Conversion Therapy but it isn't.
It is woo witch doctors with deep seated religious ideals who run the show.
Banning means nothing to these bastards and his pledge to ban shows a certain disconnect with the reality.

Edited by Soontobegran, 24 April 2019 - 11:57 AM.


#23 People

Posted 24 April 2019 - 12:49 PM

View Postpurplekitty, on 24 April 2019 - 11:34 AM, said:

This is a narrative put forward by the ACL among others,do you have evidence it is a problem?
Only some anecdotal stories online - I think there was some controversy over Tavistock being too focused on transitioning teens rather than examining alternative therapies for them, among other stories. However, i dont think its a stretch to imagine how a policy like this could be manipulated by TRAs if it is not worded carefully. I haven't read the policy and I don't know what the official definition of 'gay conversion therapy' is that is being used. It might be a really positive policy, all I'm saying is that things like this should be looked into carefully before we all jump on the bandwagon and assuming religious fundamentalists will be the only people affected.

#24 molinero

Posted 24 April 2019 - 01:36 PM

View PostPeople, on 24 April 2019 - 12:49 PM, said:

Only some anecdotal stories online - I think there was some controversy over Tavistock being too focused on transitioning teens rather than examining alternative therapies for them, among other stories. However, i dont think its a stretch to imagine how a policy like this could be manipulated by TRAs if it is not worded carefully. I haven't read the policy and I don't know what the official definition of 'gay conversion therapy' is that is being used. It might be a really positive policy, all I'm saying is that things like this should be looked into carefully before we all jump on the bandwagon and assuming religious fundamentalists will be the only people affected.

It's pretty easy to draft legislation so that it has its intended effect. And at the end of the day, terms like sexuality, sexual preference and gender identity all mean different things so - sorry but I am really baffled by this confusion.

While I do acknowledge that your concerns are genuine and may come from a good place, I do worry that using the trans community as a scape goat for stalling this legislation is ultimately damaging for the LGBTQ community.

I'm also confused why some ppl don't think it is worthwhile legislating against gay conversion therapy because 'it still might happen.' Plenty of things have been legislated against in the past that occupy that private grey area of close family and religious relationships. If we are to follow that line of reasoning, then we shouldn't bother making DV illegal.

The point of legislating against conversion therapy is to (a) send a message that it's wrong, and (b) allow those who have wrongfully endured conversion therapy to have access to legal recourse.

#25 ~J_WTF~

Posted 24 April 2019 - 01:41 PM

Good. About time.

Who cares if some people will still do it, people still murder others but the message is pretty clear that its not ok.

Something is better than nothing and it is progress in the right direction.




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