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Expulsion from school in zone?


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#26 Bam1

Posted 03 May 2019 - 09:02 AM

The schools just aren’t equipped or funded enough, my DS’s issues were quite school specific (as in him at school, not the school itself) and strategies that worked for us at home did not work at school.

The school knew that no matter what they did or how much outside therapy he did or how great his homelife was unless he got a place in a special school, improvement would be minimal.  They put in multiple applications but each time he was not “bad” enough - nearly 2 years later he finally got a place and I have a different child. Fortunately his behaviour didnt have to get as bad as the examples in this thread

In one way his life is going to be better now than other children who aren’t as “bad” as him but still need a lot more help than what they are getting.

Edited by Bam1, 03 May 2019 - 09:03 AM.


#27 Sentient Puddle

Posted 03 May 2019 - 09:07 AM

Very glad to hear that Bam.  That is a good outcome.

#28 seayork2002

Posted 03 May 2019 - 09:21 AM

OP you can list as many 'yeah but...' as you feel you like but it does not change the fact that unless you are a teacher/principal/other relevant staff (relevant to the situation not in general!) then you can only take steps for to protect your child.

Would you be happy with another parent interfering in your child's schooling?

If you have relevant information tell the school other wise stop interfering

#29 robhat

Posted 03 May 2019 - 09:39 AM

As others have said, you can't demand an expulsion and I doubt it will help much if you did. There's a world of things that could be going on for this child who bullies,many of which the school probably can't fix. If you suspect the parents may be part of the problem, keeping him at school rather than at home with them might even be better! Who knows?

The best you can do here is to look at possible strategies the school could realistically implement to protect the younger children. Things like separate play areas for the older and lower grades, closer supervision of the problematic child, Maybe a buddy system where responsible older students help look out for the younger ones... Whatever you can think up that could actually be implemented. Not everything can due to space and staffing constraints.

You could also look out for programs that the school could look at implementing to help all students get along better. There are anti bullying programs and various social skills type programs. Many of these require extra training for teachers or paying for resources or outside people to come in and do classes, but if there are enough parents wanting it and willing to pay or fundraise, you might be able to convince the school to give it a go.

#30 Kreme

Posted 03 May 2019 - 10:17 AM

When my DD was in FYOS a child in her grade was being violent and impulsive. The parents had enrolled him without providing any information about his behaviour so the school was very much taken by surprise. He was ‘suspended’ for a few weeks at the end of term to allow time for him to be assessed. He returned the following term with an aide and strategies in place and was no longer a risk to the other children.

I know several parents complained but it was focused on what had happened to their children, which is all you can do really.

#31 ipsee

Posted 03 May 2019 - 12:13 PM

You could suggest a parent roster for lunchtime activities in classrooms and to organise games in the playground.

We did this and it was not allowed, but the school suddenly found the resources to have teachers run lunch clubs to give kids somewhere safe to go.

It sounds like your school needs to supervise the playground more, or to keep the problem child in a supervised area.

#32 Orangecake

Posted 03 May 2019 - 12:56 PM

I think you can expect the school to offer lunchtime supervision and alternative activities for children that have trouble managing their behaviour in playground. Ideally they would also be running explicit social/behaviour class for those children, as the best outcome for all is that they develop these skills. Some children do need explicit teaching and strategies, for a variety of reasons.

I would request your child be kept away from this child.

You don't have the right to demand a child be expelled or suspended. A good school should have the above in place and probably wouldn't be too tolerant of parent 'vigilante' type behaviour.

#33 casime

Posted 03 May 2019 - 01:22 PM

Quote

We did this and it was not allowed, but the school suddenly found the resources to have teachers run lunch clubs to give kids somewhere safe to go.


You do realise that the school didn't suddenly find "resources", right?  All they did was give the teachers additional lunch duties.

#34 Kreme

Posted 03 May 2019 - 01:32 PM

Our school runs a program called playmates. Year 6 children act as play mentors for the FYOS children. It’s more structured than the usual year 6 buddy system (they have that too). The year 6 kids are in teams and are rostered on to run organised games every lunchtime.

In the situation you describe OP, this means there would be student leaders around in the playground with the FYOS kids, so they aren’t so vulnerable to an older bully. My daughter did it last year in year 6 and loved it, though she did have some entertaining stories about the more spirited FYOS kids LOL.

#35 Expelliarmus

Posted 03 May 2019 - 01:40 PM

View PostSentient Puddle, on 03 May 2019 - 07:55 AM, said:

A child at the school DD goes to was "encouraged to leave" in grade 2.  From Prep the child had been violent almost daily and was often shadowed in the playground or taken to the office to spend lunchtimes.  The violent behaviour also extended to the classrooms where heavy objects were thrown and a child was stabbed.  In the end the school told the parents that they were not really equipped to handle him as they received no extra funding for him for an aide.  The child moved schools - but not to a school anymore equipped to better manage his behaviour than DDs school.  The Education Dept had been involved for a number of years and there were multiple complaints from parents to the Ed Dept about this child.  It was a very sad situation all around.  When shadowed in the classroom and in the playground the child's violent outbursts could be managed - but the school didn't or wouldn't provide the resources for this to occur.
Not didn’t or wouldn’t.

Couldn’t.

It is about 2 inches and two days of paperwork to get the resources to shadow a child at recess and lunch for one term, with about 10% success rate.

#36 ERipley

Posted 03 May 2019 - 01:46 PM

View Postbaking101, on 03 May 2019 - 08:54 AM, said:

I would suggest focusing your attention on the school creating a written plan for how they will ensure the student has no access to your child.

If the plan is to have the student to stay out of the play area your child uses and it's not being followed, the plan is not working and needs revision. The plan should include how they will prevent the student from encountering the child they are targeting and what will occur if that happens (you don't really need to know what this is but the school and student certainly should).

FTR, my guidance is based from working in behaviour management in schools but isn't necessarily reflective of any actual polices that may exist in your child's school. Just how I would approach (if things were at this stage and hadn't been effectively managed prior).

Thank you! This is good advice!!

#37 ERipley

Posted 03 May 2019 - 01:55 PM

View Postseayork2002, on 03 May 2019 - 09:21 AM, said:

OP you can list as many 'yeah but...' as you feel you like but it does not change the fact that unless you are a teacher/principal/other relevant staff (relevant to the situation not in general!) then you can only take steps for to protect your child.

Would you be happy with another parent interfering in your child's schooling?

If you have relevant information tell the school other wise stop interfering

To date all I have done is ask teachers to do something about a violent child and asked a public forum how far things can go in public schools. Nothing else. If that’s “interfering”’ then too bad, that’s what I shall do.

If you have nothing helpful to add then there’s really no need for you to post.

And yes, actually, if a large number of children were being strongly effected by my child’s behaviour then I would be seriously surprised if their parents didn’t step in at some point. But yen my son would never do these things and if he did I wouldn’t stand there ignoring it like this kid’s mother does.

#38 ERipley

Posted 03 May 2019 - 02:07 PM

As I have said many times, I don’t actually want the child expelled or even suspended. So please stop saying over and over that I can’t demand this because I don’t want to.

What I want is to understand how far things can go so that if they implement strategies and they don’t work then I can say, “you’re not doing enough”.

The suggestion to make a plan to keep them apart is fantastic. This is actually useful rather than all the hysteria. Some people are blowing this way out of proportion. I won’t respond to those people now that I have said this but I welcome any more helpful ideas and constructive discussion.

#39 ipsee

Posted 03 May 2019 - 03:32 PM

View Postcasime, on 03 May 2019 - 01:22 PM, said:

You do realise that the school didn't suddenly find "resources", right?  All they did was give the teachers additional lunch duties.

Parents offerred to give up their time to assist in the playground and to run lunchtime clubs. The school expanded rapidly and the playground had become a scary place for younger kids.

It is sad that the best the system can do is make teachers lose their lunch hour once a week, but that is better than the playground developing a negative culture, which then gets gradually worse as nothing is done.

You then get injuries, destroyed property and kids reluctant to go to school.

#40 José

Posted 03 May 2019 - 03:44 PM

View PostERipley, on 03 May 2019 - 01:55 PM, said:



But yen my son would never do these things

that comes across as very judgey!

#41 Bam1

Posted 03 May 2019 - 03:48 PM

View PostSentient Puddle, on 03 May 2019 - 09:07 AM, said:

Very glad to hear that Bam.  That is a good outcome.

We were very fortunate but its quite sad that some children will never get this help due to the very limited number of places.  Read an article in the SMH about a 15yo with ADHD still getting suspended. Now that could still be my DS but I’m hopeful that his future will now be different.

#42 Sentient Puddle

Posted 03 May 2019 - 04:57 PM

View PostExpelliarmus, on 03 May 2019 - 01:40 PM, said:

Not didn’t or wouldn’t.

Couldn’t.

It is about 2 inches and two days of paperwork to get the resources to shadow a child at recess and lunch for one term, with about 10% success rate.

Absolutely fair comment - but from a parent's perspective - wouldn't , couldn't and didn't are all the same outcome.  Children are all still unsafe from the child who was violent on a weekly and sometimes daily basis.

#43 Expelliarmus

Posted 03 May 2019 - 06:43 PM

View PostSentient Puddle, on 03 May 2019 - 04:57 PM, said:

Absolutely fair comment - but from a parent's perspective - wouldn't , couldn't and didn't are all the same outcome.  Children are all still unsafe from the child who was violent on a weekly and sometimes daily basis.
It might be the same outcome but didn’t and wouldn’t lay the blame on the school where it may not necessarily belong.



#44 a letter to Elise.

Posted 03 May 2019 - 07:20 PM

Your child wouldn’t do those things?

I thought that about my own child too. And I was wrong.

You don’t know what’s happening with that child behind the scenes. My son has both been bullied, and has been the kid with behavioural issues. On the surface, people might think he was an awful kid. They don’t know he has PTSD from the bullying incident that put him in hospital with a head injury. That he was locked in a toilet cubicle by 6 boys, and tormented.  It doesn’t make his behaviour ok, but believe me, the teachers, the school counsellor, his psych, my husband and I, and my son are doing everything possible to try to fix the situation. Thankfully it is working, but if he’d been expelled during the worst of it last year, it would have been disastrous for him.

I totally understand the need to protect your child. Ive been there. But the best thing you can do, is talk to the school and your child about strategies to keep him safe, while they work on the other child’s issues.



#45 WaitForMe

Posted 03 May 2019 - 09:54 PM

View PostERipley, on 03 May 2019 - 02:07 PM, said:

As I have said many times, I don’t actually want the child expelled or even suspended. So please stop saying over and over that I can’t demand this because I don’t want to.

What I want is to understand how far things can go so that if they implement strategies and they don’t work then I can say, “you’re not doing enough”.

The suggestion to make a plan to keep them apart is fantastic. This is actually useful rather than all the hysteria. Some people are blowing this way out of proportion. I won’t respond to those people now that I have said this but I welcome any more helpful ideas and constructive discussion.

You can say "you're not doing enough" when you think that is true. You can say it now. You can say it to the Dept of Ed.

By focusing the conversation on what they are doing to protect your child, you are getting two things - firstly, information about what they are doing as is relevant to you. Secondly, you are making it clear this is not just about the bully it is also about the victim, they can't just focus on what to do with the bully, they also need to focus on protecting the victim - these are two different things (at least, in the short term).

Personally, if this is ongoing and directly affecting my child, I would phone the education department now. Maybe its considered too soon, but they need to hear it. As does your local MP, because part of the problem is probably lack of resources

Edited by WaitForMe, 03 May 2019 - 09:55 PM.


#46 MrsMuzz82

Posted 15 June 2019 - 09:12 PM

How old is the child? Because over a certain age, you can apply for a restraining order protecting your child from the aggressor. I think needs to be 9 or 10 and it might vary state by state. It’s what I would do. I would also make it 100% clear to the school that if that child touches my child, I will be suing them. And not just the school but the principal personally. They can then pay a lawyer $400 per hour to dig themselves out of the deluge of **#% I would rain upon them. That usually gets their attention.

#47 just roses

Posted 15 June 2019 - 10:13 PM

It’s really no surprise that so many school principals (and teachers)endure enormous stress, burnout, and worse....

#48 Chocolate Addict

Posted 15 June 2019 - 11:38 PM

A bully at our school had been expelled or asked to leave 4 other schools when he arrived at ours and he was only 10yo!!
No diagnosis just a bully.

I had to threaten to go the the education department and/or police before the school took real action. The kid settled down for a bit then would start on someone else.

I heard he got expelled or asked to leave our school too, but maybe the following year to my problem.

Unfortunately in his case, his mother was just as bad. lol

The rules are 10 suspensions in one year to get an expulsion or something really bad (drugs, assault etc). They try to resolve the problem but sometimes it just isnt possible.

#49 ExpatInAsia

Posted 16 June 2019 - 10:48 AM

There may be many reasons why this child is bullying and hurting other children but that does not mean the children being hurt need to put up with it and the school has to do something.

OP - I would be meeting the Principal and saying the school is not ensuring your child is protected and you want them to put a plan in place that will stop the violence. I would not accept any excuses - it is not ok for another child to be hurt regardless of what is driving the other child to hurt them.

My children go to a private school and when one boy was harassing my son I let the school handle it. But when the boy started getting up close to my son’s ear and screaming in it (multiple times a day and causing pain) I told them to put something in place to ensure it stops.

I don’t need to know about the other child or be involved in their processes I just need to see that it stops and that the way they choose to stop it is not by isolating my son. ie - my son stay with a teacher and miss out on things rather than deal with the child doing the bad behaviour.

I don’t step in much at school, I think parents need to back teachers, but when I do step in I am clear about my expectations. If the school was unable or unwilling to do anything I would look to move my child to a different school as a last resort.

#50 EPZ

Posted 18 June 2019 - 08:07 AM

I can say from personal experience....


Concussion does not warrant expulsion, couple of days off was it.

Teachers are not allowed to touch children, even if your child is in a headlock and another child won't let go. They evacuate the class, so other's are not in the line of fire.

Interestingly enough, when the local police came and did a talk, on general child safety, they told us if your child is being physically hurt, that is assault and you can report it to the police.

Op, parents views tend to change when it's their own child involved.  

Things go on in kids life, which impacts their behavior towards others and it can be a massive shame.




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