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Hope about climate change


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#1 Dadada

Posted 07 June 2019 - 01:18 PM

I don’t have any. But I would like some.

In the overwhelm of daily headlines about how we’re stuffing up the planet, I get quite panicky about the thought of the future my daughter will have to deal with. And whether it’s irresponsible to think about having a second child.

Can anyone offer some words of hopeful wisdom?

#2 Caribou

Posted 07 June 2019 - 01:33 PM

The guardian wrote an article out this and I found it comforting. I’ll see if I can find it again

#3 purplekitty

Posted 07 June 2019 - 01:33 PM

No.

#4 lost_eb-er!

Posted 07 June 2019 - 01:34 PM

Hello there friend

I've been a climate change campaigner for 10 years.

There is a lot to be gloomy about, for sure.

There's also a lot to give us hope, for example:

1) The UK has had its first week without using coal fired power for the first time since the industrial revolution. This was not totally carbon neutral (they use gas and some nuclear) but are aiming to be 100% renewable by 2030ish (can't remember exactly).

2) Coal emissions in the US have fallen year on year since 2010. Yes, even with Trump.

Also, don't let neoliberalism tell you that you, personally, are responsible for climate change and that you, personally, must stop doing x, y and z. Yes, individual actions are important (I'm a vegan, non car owning type), but the biggest, biggest most important thing you can do as individual is try your hardest to ensure that the coal in the Galilee basin (incl at the. Adani mine) stays in ground. There are plenty of direct action groups about the place - Extinction Rebellion and Frontline Action on Coal are good places to start.

ETA - if all the proposed mines go ahead, the annual emissions from coal mined in the Galilee basin will be MORE THAN all of Australia's current annual CO2 output.

Edited by lost_eb-er!, 07 June 2019 - 01:43 PM.


#5 seayork2002

Posted 07 June 2019 - 01:37 PM

I am the first to admit I could do more but I will not leave the blame all to the governments (of all countries) and not do anything myself

Edited by seayork2002, 07 June 2019 - 01:37 PM.


#6 Caribou

Posted 07 June 2019 - 01:41 PM

https://www.theguard...-analysis-finds

this is the article I was thinking of.

we have such a long way to go, but people are speaking volumes by making the changes themselves. We just need to keep voting with our feet and show the government and the world what we want. Don't wait for anyone to come to you to change the climate. Do everything you can to reduce your impact on the planet.

Solar panels, water tanks, ensure all tap devices are water savers, minimise showers, reduce plastics. everything. just be mindful of what you do and your carbon footprint.

There's hope. But we can't be compliant.

#7 Ozquoll

Posted 07 June 2019 - 02:39 PM

There is no hope to avert climate change. The only thing that will stop humans releasing damaging amounts of greenhouse gases is when it becomes too costly or difficult to extract and burn significant quantities of fossil fuels. Although reducing carbon emissions is the morally right thing to do, at both the individual and the societal level, it will have no effect on global emissions because other people or societies will happily step in and burn the fossil fuels that we forego. The dynamic that will eventually slow carbon emissions is when the production cost of fossil fuels is consistently higher than what consumers can afford to pay. Oil price goes too high = recession. Oil price too low = oil producers go bust, which squeezes supply and sets prices rising again. Rinse and repeat. I’d recommend reading Gail Tverberg on this topic, as well as Dr Tim Morgan.

#8 lost_eb-er!

Posted 07 June 2019 - 02:50 PM

View PostOzquoll, on 07 June 2019 - 02:39 PM, said:

There is no hope to avert climate change. The only thing that will stop humans releasing damaging amounts of greenhouse gases is when it becomes too costly or difficult to extract and burn significant quantities of fossil fuels. Although reducing carbon emissions is the morally right thing to do, at both the individual and the societal level, it will have no effect on global emissions because other people or societies will happily step in and burn the fossil fuels that we forego. The dynamic that will eventually slow carbon emissions is when the production cost of fossil fuels is consistently higher than what consumers can afford to pay. Oil price goes too high = recession. Oil price too low = oil producers go bust, which squeezes supply and sets prices rising again. Rinse and repeat. I’d recommend reading Gail Tverberg on this topic, as well as Dr Tim Morgan.

Well, fortunately markets are able to be controlled by government regulation. If the Galilee basin coal stays in the ground (a government decision), then it can’t get burnt.

#9 Dadada

Posted 07 June 2019 - 04:14 PM

Thank you thank you!

I appreciate this forum... I feel like an alien when I try to talk about climate change with most people... I think most people just don’t or can’t care.

That guardian article is a good read - then this popped up in the side bar which was even better https://www.theguard...-fuel-dinosaurs


#10 ipsee

Posted 07 June 2019 - 04:26 PM

People can't face the idea of Climate Change.

Research showed that if people hear 'X, Y, Z might happen' they just think it probably wont happen. So words like 'Seas might rise between 20-50cm in ten years' are dismissed.

But if warnings are too dire people are scared and switch off. So there is no way to reach people :(

Perhaps positive messages would work. 'if we do X, we can avert Y.'

#11 Caribou

Posted 07 June 2019 - 04:30 PM

The guardian is very comphrensive when it comes to climate change. Pretty much a new article every day. It’s a good read. Better to face what’s coming for us and our children and prepare.

#12 Ozquoll

Posted 07 June 2019 - 06:40 PM

View Postlost_eb-er!, on 07 June 2019 - 02:50 PM, said:

Well, fortunately markets are able to be controlled by government regulation. If the Galilee basin coal stays in the ground (a government decision), then it can’t get burnt.
Would that be the federal Government that just won an election because Queensland voters wanted jobs more than they want coal to stay in the ground? Or the state government that is tripping over its own heels in its eagerness to get coal mining started in the Galilee? Adani will probably be approved within weeks.

https://reneweconomy...pprovals-36375/

#13 ~J_F~

Posted 07 June 2019 - 06:52 PM

And right next door to Adani, Palmer is likely to get a thumping great coal mine approved because he gave them the election....

The governments are the ones who can change this and yet people voted for a government who threw out carbon tax and doesn’t give a **** about the environment, so it’s very obvious most people don’t care...

#14 steppy

Posted 07 June 2019 - 06:53 PM

I think solutions are just beyond the average person. For example, I would love to work from home and get off the road and also reduce to a one car household. All it would take is my employer to do a workplace safety assessment and provide me with the same equipment it would at work. If they did this with enough people they could greatly reduce their rental needs, using hot desk arrangements for those who have to have a meeting that day. Most meetings could be done via skype.  I would be paying for my own electricity, building maintenance etc.

But employers don't want to do this and those who profit from lunch time sales, coffee, petrol sales, office rental, car sales don't want them to do it. I can't do anything to change that. Society seems deeply unwilling to change even at the easiest levels.

#15 Ozquoll

Posted 07 June 2019 - 06:56 PM

View PostCaribou, on 07 June 2019 - 04:30 PM, said:

Better to face what’s coming for us and our children and prepare.
I strongly agree. We are all going to need a great deal of courage and acceptance as we adapt to the future of climate instability, resource shortages and the end of industrial civilisation. The Dark Mountain project is one attempt to grapple with what this might mean for us:
https://dark-mountai...bout/manifesto/

#16 Ozquoll

Posted 07 June 2019 - 07:03 PM

View Post~J_WTF~, on 07 June 2019 - 06:52 PM, said:

The governments are the ones who can change this and yet people voted for a government who threw out carbon tax and doesn’t give a **** about the environment, so it’s very obvious most people don’t care...
Rich people don’t care, either because they are making lots of money out of business as usual, or they believe their money will insulate (pun intended?) them from the effects of climate change - think of all those billionaires buying doomsday bunkers in NZ.

Poor people don’t care because they’re too damn busy surviving.

Middle-class people are the ones that ‘care’ about climate change. But not enough to stop flying overseas every two years and eating meat every night.

There are of course honourable exceptions to these stereotypes, but obviously not enough of them.

#17 *Spikey*

Posted 07 June 2019 - 08:22 PM

I think there is some hope, despite our government.

The power market is moving towards renewables, and now has unstoppable momentum.  Yes, there will be backsteps, because our politicians are corrupt and greedy (see them all get their pay rises, while taking away more penalty rates from the poorest workers).

But people are acting without them, and eventually that groundswell will force their hand.

I hope our young people will be activists - and take action. I will tag along to hold their capes....

#18 Caribou

Posted 07 June 2019 - 08:35 PM

Wow. There’s a bit of doom and gloom going on here. I have hope and optimism.

I believe we call can make a difference. We can’t give up and think we can’t. We have to keep trying. We don’t need government to tell us what to do. Coal can’t go on forever.

Personally I think the Adani mine doesn’t actually want to succeed. They’d benefit more from being ‘stopped’ and then suing government for compensation. There’s enough articles out there about how dumb and how much $$ they will lose just running it.

#19 Ozquoll

Posted 07 June 2019 - 09:03 PM

^^^
“Coal can’t go on forever”

No, and neither can oil or natural gas, and yet our modern world, with it’s vast population, is utterly dependent on these fossil fuels for transport and agriculture. We will lose industrial civilisation and a large chunk of the world’s population if we don’t have fossil fuels to power our agricultural systems and to transport our food from where it is grown to where it is eaten. Speaking of which, Australia, usually a large exporter of wheat, is currently importing wheat for the first time in twelve years due to the effects of the drought.

So, keep using fossil fuels (which we undoubtedly will) and we will fry the planet. Stop using fossil fuels and we will witness the swift toppling of industrial civilisation as transport, agriculture, manufacturing and the globalised economy all grind to a halt. There is no way out of this predicament.

#20 lost_eb-er!

Posted 07 June 2019 - 09:34 PM

View PostOzquoll, on 07 June 2019 - 09:03 PM, said:

^^^
“Coal can’t go on forever”

No, and neither can oil or natural gas, and yet our modern world, with it’s vast population, is utterly dependent on these fossil fuels for transport and agriculture. We will lose industrial civilisation and a large chunk of the world’s population if we don’t have fossil fuels to power our agricultural systems and to transport our food from where it is grown to where it is eaten. Speaking of which, Australia, usually a large exporter of wheat, is currently importing wheat for the first time in twelve years due to the effects of the drought.

So, keep using fossil fuels (which we undoubtedly will) and we will fry the planet. Stop using fossil fuels and we will witness the swift toppling of industrial civilisation as transport, agriculture, manufacturing and the globalised economy all grind to a halt. There is no way out of this predicament.

Tin foil hat alert.

Did you miss the bit about the UK not burning coal for over a week for the first time since the industrial revolution? Low carbon and carbon neutral solutions are here. Renewables supply baseload power in many places and can here in Australia very soon if we keep up the pressure.

#21 Dadada

Posted 07 June 2019 - 09:55 PM

Thank you, this is the kind of hopeful news I needed to hear! Even if we are on a grim trajectory based on the majority of the behaviour of the majority of the world... I have faith (I am making myself have faith!) in human ingenuity and our ability to make huge changes at exponential speed.

That said - thank you to whoever mentioned the Dark Mountain manifesto. I read it just now. Mind is kind of blown. I think I may have to subscribe to their journal...

#22 Ozquoll

Posted 07 June 2019 - 11:10 PM

View Postlost_eb-er!, on 07 June 2019 - 09:34 PM, said:

Tin foil hat alert.

Did you miss the bit about the UK not burning coal for over a week for the first time since the industrial revolution? Low carbon and carbon neutral solutions are here. Renewables supply baseload power in many places and can here in Australia very soon if we keep up the pressure.
My tin foil hat is one of my favourite accessories 😜.

Whoop-de-do for Britain not burning coal for a week! Can they keep it up? Still running plenty of nuclear power plants aren’t they? And isn’t it interesting that fully 10% of the electricity in Britain comes from burning wood biomass, most of which was logged in North America and shipped over to Britain. This is marketed as renewable and low-carbon, if you believe the glossy PR from the company who burn all this wood, Drax. If you read the entire following article, the assumptions behind wood biomass being environmentally friendly as a source of electricity are extremely shaky:
https://www.google.c...pellets-biomass


What are all these locations that are using renewables as Baseload?

#23 Zeppelina

Posted 08 June 2019 - 12:07 AM

View PostDadada, on 07 June 2019 - 04:14 PM, said:

Thank you thank you!

I appreciate this forum... I feel like an alien when I try to talk about climate change with most people... I think most people just don’t or can’t care.
OP, for this exact reason, a few of us from my kids' school have recently started a 'parent action on climate change' group. At the moment there's literally only a handful of us, but we were all feeling so despondent and depressed about it, and felt like we couldn't talk to anyone about it. One meeting in, and it's great already - just to have others to talk to! And we're making plans of things we can actually *do*, which feels good too.

Could you try something like that in your local community? One woman just posted in our school facebook group that she was looking for like-minded people, and that's how us others found her.

#24 Sincerely

Posted 08 June 2019 - 12:27 AM

I'm impressed, & a little bit hopeful, that commercial solar panel efficiencies are approaching 30 percent and research prototypes are approaching 50 percent where most producers started at 10 percent or below. Battery storage options are also getting lighter, smaller and less expensive to produce, mainly due to the motivation of electric car producers. If only the fossil fuel interests hadn't discouraged progress and our politicians were more longsighted, we might be even further ahead now. Apparently years of CSIRO research on solar panel (which was cutting edge last century) was simply mothballed.

#25 Sincerely

Posted 08 June 2019 - 12:29 AM

I also really, really hope (or maybe it's more wishful thinking) that government & private investment in renewables might create more jobs.




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