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Updated post 43. Am I overreacting? Kindergarten admin


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#1 Renovators delight

Posted 07 June 2019 - 04:57 PM

At 4.30pm on the Friday afternoon before a public holiday long weekend, the kindergarten rang me and said that my 3yo can't attend his 2 1/2 hour session on Tuesday morning without a current asthma action plan.

I think they're being very unreasonable, and that they should accept that I will have an appointment as soon as possible after his session. The person who rang me was apparently just passing on a message, so I told her I thought it was totally unreasonable and I would like to speak to the decision maker about it to complain. Apparently that wasn't possible as the person had just rung in after hours to declare that my son's plan was out of date (!)

Anyway I think they are bloody useless and could find a way to compromise about this for the Tuesday morning session.

Its a pretty standard thing for an action plan that if ventolin is required within 4 hours of last being administered that the child needs to see a doctor, so they would have to, in theory, ring me if anything happened during a 2 1/2 hour session anyway.

Maybe it is reasonable, but the background to this is extensive. For the past two weeks I was harrassed (as in, badgered by 2-3 staff members) over his ALLERGY plan being missing. I told them repeatedly it had been provided twice. Finally, this Tuesday, they managed to locate the thing. The phone call this afternoon was apparently to advise me that the problem all along was the ASTHMA plan, not the ALLERGY plan.

Even more background - we have been attending this kindergarten/centre since the day it opened in Jan 2017. It has been an ongoing saga of complete administrative incompetence. I think the centre is onto about its 6th director. When I was paying daycare fees there would be a stuff up every 6 months or so where they would undercharge me and ring demanding immediate payment of the multi-hundred dollar arrears that magically appeared. They continually misplaced or lost my other son's allergy info. They bug me about things all the time.

I've had enough. My son has missed 4 sessions this term due to flu. Why should he have to miss another session because these nitwits couldn't organise a p*ss up in a brewery?

lol, never mind, just as I posted my whingy screed they rang me back with the area manager and agreed that it can wait until next Friday. Hooray for moderation.

Edited by Renovators delight, 14 June 2019 - 02:52 PM.


#2 Fossy

Posted 07 June 2019 - 05:47 PM

Maybe in future make a reminder in your diary that his action plan is going to expire instead of relying on the overworked and under funded early childhood educators to follow up your put of date potentially life saving medical documentation?

As a health care professional I can testify that these extremely important action plans often do expire and go unnoticed, with potentially fatal consequences. Good on your kinder for being on the ball, wish they all were.

#3 Renovators delight

Posted 07 June 2019 - 06:13 PM

 Fossy, on 07 June 2019 - 05:47 PM, said:

Maybe in future make a reminder in your diary that his action plan is going to expire instead of relying on the overworked and under funded early childhood educators to follow up your put of date potentially life saving medical documentation?

As a health care professional I can testify that these extremely important action plans often do expire and go unnoticed, with potentially fatal consequences. Good on your kinder for being on the ball, wish they all were.

They were not on the ball, they told me that the allergy plan was lost and didn't mention the asthma plan until today. I knew his allergy plan was up to date. His asthma plan was submitted in January so I don't know why it has allegedly expired.

He is there for a 2.5 hour session. I would never send him if he needed ventolin administered during the session, I would keep him home.

Obviously you think I was overreacting even though these people have stuffed me around constantly for the past 2.5 years. Clearly I should have just put up and shut up.

#4 Riotproof

Posted 07 June 2019 - 06:16 PM

Why do you keep going there?

#5 Sweet.Pea

Posted 07 June 2019 - 06:30 PM

Wouldn't the plan be, ventolin, if doesn't improve, ambulance and call parent? Or is that my simple way or thinking?

#6 atthebeach

Posted 07 June 2019 - 06:32 PM

I don't think you should put up and shut up. Keep a record of it everything and consider making a complaint. My child went to a kinder that was hopeless about paperwork and i wished i had made a complaint, because in the end it turned out that there were serious problems.

#7 Renovators delight

Posted 07 June 2019 - 06:51 PM

Location. We can walk there and it’s next door to the children’s school. Things had improved under a director that was there for about 6 months but she disappeared a couple of months ago. We’ve had two more since then. Last year DS2 has a great teacher for 4yo kinder there, and DS3 has lovely carers. The care part hasn’t been an issue for the past 18 months or so, just the admin/management is consistently awful.

If I was using the daycare part still I may have changed this year I think, but for 2 x 2.5 hour sessions with good teachers we keep putting up with the horrible admin.

#8 Riotproof

Posted 07 June 2019 - 07:01 PM

Hopefully school will be more proactive about getting updates but ultimately it is your responsibility, horrible admin or not.

#9 eachschoolholidays

Posted 07 June 2019 - 07:04 PM

Unfortunately it is your duty to provide an up to date plan. It is not their responsibility to remind you.

#10 Fossy

Posted 07 June 2019 - 07:05 PM

Well if it hasn’t expired then just send through your copy of the plan, surely that’s an easy fix?
If I was that unhappy there I would just leave, if they’re as incompetent as you believe why would you trust them to look after your child with several medical issues? Glad you got it sorted.

#11 Renovators delight

Posted 07 June 2019 - 07:14 PM

This is interesting. It honestly wouldn’t occur to me to keep track of expiry dates on plans. Didn’t even know there *was* an expiry date. I know they want an allergy plan each year even when nothing has changed, but even so, as the date has no meaning or relevance to me I have never bothered to note it down for me to follow up.

I proactively give them new things as they arise, but I am not by any stretch of the imagination an organised person and I don’t note things things down. I mean, it’s like specialist referrals. I rely on them telling me I need a new one, I don’t make a note of when the last one was issued so I can use my own initiative to get another before I’m reminded.

Clearly I’m sh*t at this part of being a person too. Good to know.

#12 blimkybill

Posted 07 June 2019 - 07:17 PM

You have my complete sympathy,  all of that would drive me crazy. They should be able to do better.  And how useful are those plans if they can't even find them? They should be stuck up on a wall somewhere where staff can all see them. Totally useless if they are lost.

#13 Riotproof

Posted 07 June 2019 - 07:28 PM

 Renovators delight, on 07 June 2019 - 07:14 PM, said:

This is interesting. It honestly wouldn’t occur to me to keep track of expiry dates on plans. Didn’t even know there *was* an expiry date. I know they want an allergy plan each year even when nothing has changed, but even so, as the date has no meaning or relevance to me I have never bothered to note it down for me to follow up.

I proactively give them new things as they arise, but I am not by any stretch of the imagination an organised person and I don’t note things things down. I mean, it’s like specialist referrals. I rely on them telling me I need a new one, I don’t make a note of when the last one was issued so I can use my own initiative to get another before I’m reminded.

Clearly I’m sh*t at this part of being a person too. Good to know.

Okay. You’ve explained how you’ve had 2.5 years of incompetence from them. They’re the ones with your child in their care without the paperwork. They’re the ones who potentially won’t know what dose he needs or when an ambulance needs to be called.  I would have a hard time trusting them, but you don’t seem to, so yeah sorry, it is up to you to keep track. They have proven they won’t.

A good school does remind you, but I know exactly when ds’s epipen expires at school. I know when I need a new action plan. I know when I need to replace the Zyrtec as well. Because I make a note when I hand them over. My school does phone and remind me of all those things, but if they didn’t I would still know.

#14 blimkybill

Posted 07 June 2019 - 07:36 PM

Riotproof, on 07 June 2019 - 07:28 PM, said:


A good school does remind you, but I know exactly when ds’s epipen expires at school. I know when I need a new action plan. I know when I need to replace the Zyrtec as well. Because I make a note when I hand them over. My school does phone and remind me of all those things, but if they didn’t I would still know.
I think you might be in a minority there.
I think many people find the minutiae of dealing with rules, policies and procedures  overwhelming.

#15 PrincessPeach

Posted 07 June 2019 - 07:39 PM

 Renovators delight, on 07 June 2019 - 07:14 PM, said:

This is interesting. It honestly wouldn’t occur to me to keep track of expiry dates on plans. Didn’t even know there *was* an expiry date. I know they want an allergy plan each year even when nothing has changed, but even so, as the date has no meaning or relevance to me I have never bothered to note it down for me to follow up.


i only found out they had an expiry date because on the kindy enrolment form it asked for them to be within 12 months. I thought they only needed to be updated when medication changes.

but the incompetence of management is horrifying, I understand it's close but I don't think I could trust them with my kid either. I think you need to be making complaints to the governing body.



#16 ERipley

Posted 07 June 2019 - 07:41 PM

 Renovators delight, on 07 June 2019 - 07:14 PM, said:

This is interesting. It honestly wouldn’t occur to me to keep track of expiry dates on plans. Didn’t even know there *was* an expiry date. I know they want an allergy plan each year even when nothing has changed, but even so, as the date has no meaning or relevance to me I have never bothered to note it down for me to follow up.

I proactively give them new things as they arise, but I am not by any stretch of the imagination an organised person and I don’t note things things down. I mean, it’s like specialist referrals. I rely on them telling me I need a new one, I don’t make a note of when the last one was issued so I can use my own initiative to get another before I’m reminded.

Clearly I’m sh*t at this part of being a person too. Good to know.

Of course it’s their job, OP. They sound hopeless. Everyone expects admin to tell you what documents they need - it’s their job. Whether that’s school, tax office, immigration, HR department, it’s what admin people are supposed to do. You’re not at fault here, ignore those who tell you otherwise.

It sounds like management are onto it now. You could talk to them later about how many times they have messed up and hope that results in some appropriate training or organising. If the carers are competent that’s the main thing.

#17 Riotproof

Posted 07 June 2019 - 07:41 PM

When you’re trusting a third party to give potentially lifesaving medicine to a child, it’s really not an option.

Blaming them for being incompetent and staying there is the ops choice.

#18 FuzzyChocolateToes

Posted 07 June 2019 - 08:06 PM

 Renovators delight, on 07 June 2019 - 07:14 PM, said:

I proactively give them new things as they arise, but I am not by any stretch of the imagination an organised person and I don’t note things things down. I mean, it’s like specialist referrals. I rely on them telling me I need a new one, I don’t make a note of when the last one was issued so I can use my own initiative to get another before I’m reminded.

Clearly I’m sh*t at this part of being a person too. Good to know.
I don't want this to feel like a pile on, so hope it doesn't feel like one but our specialist makes it very clear that it's my responsibility to have an up to date referral. In fact they remind me of tis every time we go ( fortunately I now  have an ongoing referral :) ).

#19 Future-self

Posted 07 June 2019 - 08:36 PM

Our centre made it really easy for us (and them) by making everyone submit new plans and medication checks for expiry every February. So early Feb roles around, everyone with a plan gets an email reminder with the template and you make sure they’re filled in and back by the end of the month and you check the meds expiry as you’re handing the new one in. It works really well. I’m sure some people were furious at that at first especially if they’d only just got a new one done in the couple of months prior but it means that the centre can send out reminders easily be cause it’s standardised.

For those of us with allergy and medication plans for non-life threatening conditions admins crazy ‘can’t find the plan’ absurdity isn’t necessarily a deal breaker for quality of care and trust. i can see why the OP is quite willing to put up with admin crap because the carers themselves are great and would know that your Ds takes ventolin - and probably knew where the plan was the whole time even if management did not.

#20 Renovators delight

Posted 07 June 2019 - 08:41 PM

I am very privileged because neither have had anaphylactic reactions. DS1s allergy was only moderate, and DS3 is only allergic to kiwi fruit which is pretty obscure and is well aware he’s not allowed to touch or eat it. His asthma is either well controlled through his preventer or he is too sick for me to consider sending him in. So the only reason I’ve ever given them any of the asthma stuff is because they’ve told me I have to, andjust in case a situation arises where he does come down very suddenly with a wheeze. When he was in daycare with them it was different, but I am lax.

The specialist thing was an example, I suppose, that’s the way I get around in the world, relying on people to tell me when I need something new. The ventolin and Zyrtec expiry dates are another good example. I don’t note them down before handing them over. I gave them a new ventolin when they told me the old one expired. Otherwise I’d not have known. To my knowledge it’s never been used. They only have it because they asked for it. I’d rather they didn’t use it and just rang me as I can drive there in 60 seconds.

I do think I might look elsewhere for next year. We had hoped at one point to have moved by the end of last year but for various reasons didn’t and so persisted. I don’t really rate the new 4yo kinder teacher anyway so maybe I will do some investigating.

#21 Future-self

Posted 07 June 2019 - 08:43 PM

 FuzzyChocolateToes, on 07 June 2019 - 08:06 PM, said:


I don't want this to feel like a pile on, so hope it doesn't feel like one but our specialist makes it very clear that it's my responsibility to have an up to date referral. In fact they remind me of tis every time we go ( fortunately I now  have an ongoing referral :) ).
Don’t they tell you when you make the appointment though? Sure it’s your responsibility  to have it but do they not check your referral dates when you ring to see them or when you’re making the next appointment? Yours seems a bit mean to  not mention it when the appointment is being made that it will fall outside of the current referral date!

#22 Dianalynch

Posted 07 June 2019 - 08:54 PM

I have two kids with asthma, I’m sure you wouldn’t seriously rather they wait until you get there before giving your kid ventolin, even if you are 60 secs away.

#23 Prancer is coming

Posted 07 June 2019 - 09:24 PM

I hear you OP.  School drives me batty with this type of thing - deciding they need something and it has to be now.  Three weeks before my kid went on camp I started a dialogue with his teacher about his medication needs and sat down with a senior teacher.  Specifically asked about permission stuff and also sent an email outlining his medication requirements.  The day before the camp, when I am working and my dr has no appointments, they ring and tell me I need medical approval or my son cannot go.  And them being such sticklers for procedure extremely annoys me when they took my kid not once, but twice on an excursion without an epipen.

Like you OP,I have no idea when my plans and medication run out.  It is the job of the office to check this, as they have the items.  A bit different, but my working with children card has expired and I am interested how many more months it will take before they notice.  I think the onus is clearly on them to check this one!  I have made a big fuss over the previous stuff ups of the school and have got some change.  If I changed my kid’s school every time I was annoyed over something they did, I think I would have ran out of schools by now!

ETA - and my other favourite is they tell me it has been 2 years since I have provided medical information about my DD’s condition, can I provide an update.  She has a disease that there is no cure for, not sure what they think this new medical evidence would look like and what a waste of the drs time!  They have left this alone now, as the only evidence I would be providing is the letter of diagnosis they already have.

Edited by Prancer is coming, 07 June 2019 - 11:27 PM.


#24 RynandStompy

Posted 07 June 2019 - 10:48 PM

I understand the frustration OP. So many daycare and for profit Kinders are happy to increase exorbitant fees, and use the money for 'managing'. Many certainly don't pay most carers well, nor do great food for the daily rates.
So when their admin and Directors don't actually 'manage' ..to me it's like "Hey you had one job"?!"

#25 FuzzyChocolateToes

Posted 07 June 2019 - 11:53 PM

 Future-self, on 07 June 2019 - 08:43 PM, said:


Don’t they tell you when you make the appointment though? Sure it’s your responsibility  to have it but do they not check your referral dates when you ring to see them or when you’re making the next appointment? Yours seems a bit mean to  not mention it when the appointment is being made that it will fall outside of the current referral date!
No, they don't! The practice (paediatrician) used to remind you but they changed the way they do things and have put the onus back on the parent. You get a text reminder about your appointment that includes a message to make sure your referral is in date.




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