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[Chicken Pie]

I like the idea and can see the appeal, however considering your circumstances and changes to be able to afford it i wouldnt extend it - i would take the opportunity to build up an emergency account or a savings buffer for the next 12 months and maybe get a valuation done etc

you could in the meantime start working on your design yourself

[molinero]

Beancat, on 08 August 2019 - 02:05 PM, said:

Can a study be a bedroom if it has a door but no wardrobe?  Im just thinking is our place a 4 or 5 bed house.  The study is 4m by 3.5m so a good size

The short answer is yes. The size of your room sounds more than adequate for a bedroom. And you could still probably get a built-in robe there if you really wanted.

But just because you turn it into a 'bedroom' now doesn't mean a future potential buyer wouldn't use it as a study.

We are building a new home and the spare bedroom will also double as DH's working from home study.

I guess what I am saying is that there may not be much additional value gained from doing this when the house already has 4 bedrooms. If you are looking at a one or two bedroom place, then yes, adding a second or third bedroom obviously changes the value more significantly.

[rileys-mum]

OP - if I remember correctly you are in Perth.
If I am right - house values are still falling. I would not undertake any renovations that were not absolutely necessary as the house will then owe you additional equity and the value may still yet fall giving you negative equity. This is not a problem if you don’t need to sell. But if for whatever reason you have to sell quick it will cost you big time.

[got my tinsel on]

Don't.

You have all the time in the world to increase the value of your home - now is not the time.

You don't appear to currently need the extra living space.

If you are able to borrow the extra money, doesn't sound like you will any buffer if interest rates go up (and they will eventually) or if a real-life recession occurs (very likely).

It's a great idea - just keep it on the backburner for a while.

[just roses]

You don’t need it now so don’t do it now.

Put that extra money each fortnight into your mortgage and save up the 50k. Then, when you want to do the reno, you can redraw the money. But in the meantime you’re reducing your interest rather than increasing it.

[Hollycoddle]

Beancat, on 08 August 2019 - 02:05 PM, said:

Can a study be a bedroom if it has a door but no wardrobe?  Im just thinking is our place a 4 or 5 bed house.  The study is 4m by 3.5m so a good size

Yes.  There are still many homes without built-ins, probably new ones have them as people want all the mod cons but there are homes here in relatively new areas of Canberra (say, 10-15 year old) that don't have them.

[born.a.girl]

The other thing with all that roof space, is that you can get a basic attic ladder installed, then 'floor' the roof space yourself with some chipboard (provided no leaking roof!), then do some framing and sealing yourself.    I know the framing timbers were significant in having ours done, and I wouldn't want to be doing that myself, but if you have the time, why not?

Then you can put all the stuff that's taking up room up there, and leave the downstairs space to even perhaps create space that the kids can use in another way.


Obviously depends on whether you're short of space downstairs like we were.

[Expelliarmus]

We walked off and put a door in one end of the dining room to make a study in our 4 bedroom home. It has no wardrobe. Officially, specs wise, it’s a 5 bedroom home.

Edited by Expelliarmus, 08 August 2019 - 06:37 PM.

[FeralZombieSanta]

Dadto2, on 08 August 2019 - 10:58 AM, said:

Stupid question I guess, but now I have $250 extra, extending the mortgage makes sense?

Can you afford it if interest rates went up past 8%?

[Silver Girl]

born.a.girl, on 08 August 2019 - 02:09 PM, said:

Once upon a time, no bedrooms had wardrobes in them.  Only one of ours now does because we had them built in. Didn't want them built in in another one because it's 'officially' the dining room and the next person may prefer it that way without alternations.

Most people seem to want 4 plus study though, rather than 5 x bedrooms no study.

I do recall reading somewhere (this was 15-20 years ago) that a room would only be advertised by a RE agent as a bedroom if it had a wardrobe. I’m not sure if this is still current practice.

I take your point though - built in/walk in etc wardrobes are a relatively modern feature.

[born.a.girl]

Silver Girl, on 08 August 2019 - 07:25 PM, said:

I do recall reading somewhere (this was 15-20 years ago) that a room would only be advertised by a RE agent as a bedroom if it had a wardrobe. I’m not sure if this is still current practice.

I take your point though - built in/walk in etc wardrobes are a relatively modern feature.

Definitely not current practice, and as someone who's been around a few years not something I've ever seen or heard of.  That said, I've mainly lived in older suburbs and many places I've seen have been 'unrenovated' which would mean no built ins.   I sold a two bedroom house with no built in wardrobes at all, 22 years ago.

The place we bought only had ancient built-ins in one room, which came out as it was the original lounge room, and we returned it to that.

It sounds like something limited to new suburbs. It's never been relevant for old suburbs, where many people would have old family furniture (as we did in the first house) doing the job.

[Silver Girl]

OP - in terms of design, is there any scope to add in a small bathroom? If I were buying a house I would be more interested in the second storey if it had at least a toilet up there.

[born.a.girl]

Silver Girl, on 08 August 2019 - 07:31 PM, said:

OP - in terms of design, is there any scope to add in a small bathroom? If I were buying a house I would be more interested in the second storey if it had at least a toilet up there.

Agree.  People we know put in a small second storey in the roof space - proper steps etc, but it was going to cost 'too much' to put a toilet up there, and there's only a shower, which I thought was crazy.

You can hold off on a shower, but busting for a pee during the night and having to find your way downstairs?

[DaLittleEd]

Obviously you pee in the shower...

[Acidulous Osprey]

Silver Girl, on 08 August 2019 - 07:25 PM, said:

I do recall reading somewhere (this was 15-20 years ago) that a room would only be advertised by a RE agent as a bedroom if it had a wardrobe. I’m not sure if this is still current practice.

That's hilarious.  My house would have had zero bedrooms if that metric were used at all.

[born.a.girl]

DaLittleEd, on 08 August 2019 - 07:43 PM, said:

Obviously you pee in the shower...

At two am?

[DaLittleEd]

If you're desperate I guess....

[littlepickle]

I wouldn’t go ahead for two reasons -
1. What your kids need now and what they will need in 5 years time will be different.
2. I would be worried about how hot it would get up there in summer (particularly in Perth). This would likely result in a huge electricity bill - you could be paying the extra mortgage payment plus $250 more in electricity during the summer months.
Save the $250 per month for a holiday that your kids will remember...

[SplashingRainbows]

I’m pretty conservative. But if I’d only just managed to find $250 in the budget I’d want that as savings/buffer not a commitment for another 20 years.

It potentially leaves you with nowhere to move if you need to cut expenses in the future. Is there any more wriggle room if your income drops or other bills go up?

[Jersey Caramel]

Keep in mind that if you pay for this by extending your mortgage,  even though it costs $40k now,  it will end up costing you far more than that over the life of the loan thanks to the compound interest.

We converted the attic in a 2br workers cottage - it was great,  as it made the house 10x more liveable and extended the number of years we could stay in the house with 3 kids without having to upgrade. We got it properly done by a professional company which cost more but it was all done in 3 weeks with very little hassle. We paid for it with savings though.

[born.a.girl]

Jersey Caramel, on 09 August 2019 - 07:33 AM, said:

Keep in mind that if you pay for this by extending your mortgage,  even though it costs $40k now,  it will end up costing you far more than that over the life of the loan thanks to the compound interest.

We converted the attic in a 2br workers cottage - it was great,  as it made the house 10x more liveable and extended the number of years we could stay in the house with 3 kids without having to upgrade. We got it properly done by a professional company which cost more but it was all done in 3 weeks with very little hassle. We paid for it with savings though.

You're right but the same logic applies with savings foregone.

Imagine if you'd not done the attic, what those savings would amount to invested well.

Definitely cheaper with savings, but it still costs more than the 'list' price due to opportunity cost.

[Rilee's~Mama]

I'm pretty sure it's in America that for a room to be classed as a bedroom it has to have a closet / wardrobe.

Happy to be corrected ... the above is based on the home reno shows I watch!!

[Dadto2]

Cheers for the advice. I think best to put it on hold. I think the way you've explained it to me, it doesn't make good financial sense. Thanks

[Sentient Puddle]

Silver Girl, on 08 August 2019 - 07:25 PM, said:

I do recall reading somewhere (this was 15-20 years ago) that a room would only be advertised by a RE agent as a bedroom if it had a wardrobe. I’m not sure if this is still current practice.

I take your point though - built in/walk in etc wardrobes are a relatively modern feature.

We would only have a one bedroom house then. 1950s post war houses often didn't have wardrobes.

[WaitForMe]

Rilee, on 09 August 2019 - 02:41 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure it's in America that for a room to be classed as a bedroom it has to have a closet / wardrobe.

Happy to be corrected ... the above is based on the home reno shows I watch!!

Yeah, otherwise our house has 0 bedrooms!