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Religious Freedom bill


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#1 CallMeFeral

Posted 30 August 2019 - 09:49 AM

Seems like it's going to happen. So angry.

https://www.smh.com....829-p52m5h.html

#2 lucky 2

Posted 30 August 2019 - 10:14 AM

I'd like to read the draft bill because I'm confused about it.
I think religion should be added to the list of protected attributes (I thought it already was).
But I want to read it for myself, especially if it proposes health professionals can discriminate against people with other protected attributes, ie marital status, gender identity.
I'm trying to get the facts of the proposed bill before making a judgemental.

#3 Lucrezia Borgia

Posted 30 August 2019 - 10:17 AM

i don’t think religion should be a protected attribute. Scientology is a religion, should it be immune from criticism?


#4 Fourteenyears

Posted 30 August 2019 - 10:21 AM

It absolutely does my head in that soon zealots and bigots will be free to post all sorts of destructive rubbish while blissfully able to remain safe in their employment, while public servants posting anonymously and cautiously about current affairs risk getting sacked.

Double standard much??!

ETA:  I have no issue with people making religious posts as long as they aren’t hate speech (hate speech should, really, be dealt with by whatever platform they are posting on).

But I do have an issue with private employers not being able to protect their brand from said hate speech while the government reserves the right to completely suppress public servant’s participation in political discourse that does not actually relate to their employment, even when done anonymously.

Edited by Fourteenyears, 30 August 2019 - 10:24 AM.


#5 CallMeFeral

Posted 30 August 2019 - 10:28 AM

View Postlucky 2, on 30 August 2019 - 10:14 AM, said:

I'd like to read the draft bill because I'm confused about it.
I think religion should be added to the list of protected attributes (I thought it already was).
But I want to read it for myself, especially if it proposes health professionals can discriminate against people with other protected attributes, ie marital status, gender identity.
I'm trying to get the facts of the proposed bill before making a judgemental.

This is the website. It might be all of those documents?

https://www.ag.gov.a...edom-bills.aspx

Edited by CallMeFeral, 30 August 2019 - 10:29 AM.


#6 WannabeMasterchef

Posted 30 August 2019 - 10:32 AM

So, all religions will be protected?  Paganism?  Wiccan?  Satanism?  
They cant have it both ways....

#7 molinero

Posted 30 August 2019 - 10:38 AM

Religious freedom laws have caused a whole lot of problems in the USA.

The precedent for these protections is not good.

#8 Lucrezia Borgia

Posted 30 August 2019 - 10:46 AM

from the smh article “the Porter bill isn’t about religious freedom. it is about giving special legal privileges to prejudice”.

that’s it, in a nutshell. if you remember nothing else about this bill, remember that. it just shrouds prejudice in a special legal immunity.


#9 Jane Jetson

Posted 30 August 2019 - 10:47 AM

Jesus ****ing Christ. Who, oddly, these vicious bastards do not resemble at all, given his bad habit of being nice to people who were not well regarded by society at the time - wouldn't want that, would we.

Just another step on the road to fascism.

#10 CallMeFeral

Posted 30 August 2019 - 10:53 AM

View PostWannabeMasterchef, on 30 August 2019 - 10:32 AM, said:

So, all religions will be protected?  Paganism?  Wiccan?  Satanism?  
They cant have it both ways....

I believe they have to apply it to all.
I'm thinking that might actually be the way to protest some of this stuff. Get active in the church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and get whatever freedoms non-fundamentalists are going to miss out on enshrined in some document there, so that we can claim 'religious freedom' to justify our actions too.

#11 Fourteenyears

Posted 30 August 2019 - 11:15 AM

The act includes atheism and agnosticism as ‘religious beliefs’.

It doesn’t define religious hospitals or charity shops as religious institutions for the purpose of employment restriction, but it does define religious schools that way.

It doesn’t address at all the issue of the rights of LGBTI students and teachers in religious schools (although they could dismiss a teacher on the basis of not being the right religion, and it certainly allows them to repeatedly bang on about a ‘biblical view of marriage’.).  It may be that the eventual outcome is that schools can’t legally kick out staff or students because of their sexuality, but they can legally be a very hostile environment for them.

It does protect the rights of medical staff to refuse certain procedures, although it also allows for the waiving of this protection when it will cause harm to the community - eg, a practice employing a sole provider in a small community could legally choose somebody who will provide all services, not just some.

It seems to protect a fair amount of religious hate speech, although there is a sort of broad, undefined ‘don’t go too far’ about it.   Employers will be big losers here. A lot of the act is broad and undefined.

Not unsurprisingly, it specifically restricts the rights of public servants to freely express their religious views on social media.  So it explicitly protects the government’s rights to not have fringe-fundie employees trashing their reputation.

Edited by Fourteenyears, 30 August 2019 - 11:18 AM.


#12 Lunafreya

Posted 30 August 2019 - 12:21 PM

Let’s make our own religion. The Church of MYOFB. Mind your own ****ing business! Who’s with me?

#13 Cimbom

Posted 30 August 2019 - 12:28 PM

I want to start the Church of the Social Justice Warrior so I can push all the views that these nutjobs complain about :lol:

#14 Cimbom

Posted 30 August 2019 - 12:29 PM

Actually make that a mosque to p*ss them off even more lol

#15 CallMeFeral

Posted 30 August 2019 - 12:33 PM

View PostCimbom, on 30 August 2019 - 12:28 PM, said:

I want to start the Church of the Social Justice Warrior so I can push all the views that these nutjobs complain about Posted Image

That's why I thought Pastafarian might be a good place to start...

https://www.venganza.org/about/

Q: A lot of Pastafarians seem to be anti-religion and/or atheists (why is this?)
A: We’re not anti-religion. This is NOT an atheists club. Anyone and everyone is welcome to join our church including current members of other religions. In addition to the Atheists, Agnostics, and Freethinkers who have joined us, we have a number of Christian (and Muslim, and Hindu and Buddhist …) members and I would love to have more. Note to the religious: You are welcome here.

Let me make this clear: we are not anti-religion, we are anti- crazy nonsense done in the name of religion. There is a difference.


#16 CallMeFeral

Posted 30 August 2019 - 12:37 PM

View PostCimbom, on 30 August 2019 - 12:29 PM, said:

Actually make that a mosque to p*ss them off even more lol

Actually you may want these guys. Ups the p*ss-them-off ante a bit from the pastafarians, and also ups the social justice purpose. I'm pretty tempted.

https://thesatanicte.../pages/about-us

#17 AnythingGoes

Posted 30 August 2019 - 12:54 PM

Can someone explain the point of this - my understanding is that everyone does already have freedom of religion - so people are free to practice their chosen religion up until the point of breaking a law.
Is this giving targeted free passes to religious people?

#18 lucky 2

Posted 30 August 2019 - 01:04 PM

View PostLucrezia Borgia, on 30 August 2019 - 10:17 AM, said:

i don’t think religion should be a protected attribute. Scientology is a religion, should it be immune from criticism?
I'm talking about protected attributes in relation to discrimation legislation. That has nothing to do with criticism.
At work, as a hp, I would not be allowed to discrimate against someone based on their religion, including a scientologist!
My personal views about the religion don't come into it.

#19 Lucrezia Borgia

Posted 30 August 2019 - 01:46 PM

i wouldn’t want a Scientologist providing psychiatric care. i wouldn’t want a Jehova’s Witness working in an emergency ward or operating theatre.

Edited by Lucrezia Borgia, 30 August 2019 - 01:47 PM.


#20 MarigoldMadge

Posted 30 August 2019 - 01:48 PM

Is this also going to override state laws like abortion clinic exclusion zones?

#21 lucky 2

Posted 30 August 2019 - 01:53 PM

That doesn't make sense to me, maybe there are scientologists who are psychiatrists and jw's who are nurses.
I'd make a bet there is, if they were employed to do a specific job and they did what they were employed to do we wouldn't know.

#22 Lucrezia Borgia

Posted 30 August 2019 - 01:56 PM

given the church of scientology’s reported unconventional views on psychiatry - i hope not.

i don’t think high profile footballers should hold a religious belief that means they post homophobic messages. if they do, they should be sacked. religion should give you no special status.

#23 seayork2002

Posted 30 August 2019 - 01:59 PM

So (yes silly examples ahead)

I used to work in a book shop/newsagent/toyshop - could I have said 'I am not going to sell you lottery tickets, adult books, magazines on fishing, the game monopoly etc.' because it against my religion?

(an example I don't have a religion)

So a person chooses not to have a certain medical procedure due to their religion sure I get it, a bit odd to me but you are only affecting your self and relatives/friends if you die from not having it

BUT

how the heck can you get away with not performing it on others? just because you 'beleive' another way?

#24 Lucrezia Borgia

Posted 30 August 2019 - 02:04 PM

well, i agree SY!

if you’re a catholic doctor working in a women’s health clinic, while there are many many functions you could competently perform that would not conflict with your beliefs - but if there were two things you couldn’t do - say, provide an IUD to a woman who wanted one, or arrange a termination, then you cant do your job.. you shouldn’t be there. you are taking up a role which a perfectly competent other doctor, unencumbered with the burden of religious belief, could do. so you should be sacked. you should be sacked because you are catholic.


#25 Datrys

Posted 30 August 2019 - 04:18 PM

View PostAnythingGoes, on 30 August 2019 - 12:54 PM, said:

Can someone explain the point of this - my understanding is that everyone does already have freedom of religion - so people are free to practice their chosen religion up until the point of breaking a law.
Is this giving targeted free passes to religious people?

At the moment we kind of have freedom of religion by default; it has no legal framework around it.  The only legislation dealing with freedom of religion up until now has been through exemptions to other laws, rather than by having a positive statement (if that makes sense).  So in a way, what this is doing is creating a law which makes explicit what has kind of been the implicit social contract.  (And, incidentally, also more robustly meeting Australia's international obligations with regard to human rights, which include freedom of religion).  

It's a very fraught area.  There are lots of different groups with different concerns.  (I was involved in drafting a submission to the Ruddock review, and also have been part of consultation with my local MP).  So, for example, one of the things that has been talked about a bit in those consultations, but doesn't seem to be making news reports, is the idea that folks working casually ought to be able to refuse to work on their days of religious significance without (say) then being penalised by having their shifts cut (which is all too common, and affects minority religions much more than Christians).  That's a protection I'd really like to see put in place, but whether or not draft legislation covers it remains to be seen.  

But, you know, it would also hopefully protect people from that kind of "you should be sacked because you are catholic" line.  




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