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Booze - little, but often?


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#26 Kiwi Bicycle

Posted 15 November 2019 - 10:08 AM

View Postlucky 2, on 15 November 2019 - 09:38 AM, said:



Hi Kiwi, I hope you are feeling ok. Are you still in the grip if PND? It took me about 2 years to feel healed but I think it's a life time process, dd is now 15.


Thank you for asking. DS is 6 now and I finally managed to come off my ADs early this year. The trauma of PND pretty much made the decision for one and done. However reading stuff like this ( and I only have realised it today) has brought back all the mama guilt about mixed feeding and the absolute despair when trying to pump and seeing so little.

#27 DaLittleEd

Posted 15 November 2019 - 10:13 AM

I honestly can't believe that's on the ABA website.

#28 born.a.girl

Posted 15 November 2019 - 11:41 AM

View PostDaLittleEd, on 15 November 2019 - 10:13 AM, said:

I honestly can't believe that's on the ABA website.

Neither can I.  'Artificial baby milk', really?  What are the connotations of the word 'artificial', even if it's technically correct.  How about 'breast milk' and 'baby forumula'.

It's not as though these words are the spur of the moment comments that someone wishes they had their moment back from.  Written information on a website like that needs to be considered carefully.

There are much better ways of saying a night on the town is not worth all the hassle of organising a formula feed, because it IS a hassle when you first look at using it - bottles, teats, brands???  Most people are advised to move slowly from one to the other, if possible, which is more to the point.

#29 Future-self

Posted 15 November 2019 - 11:42 AM

View PostDaLittleEd, on 15 November 2019 - 10:13 AM, said:

I honestly can't believe that's on the ABA website.
It's addressing a specific question in a specific scenario though.
They are answering the question as for the breastfed baby, as a one off you should breastfeed anyway -  even if you're not sure you're back to 0%. In this instance they are saying that you are better off Breastfeeding than attempting suddenly to go out and decide which type to buy; to attempt to learn to mix formula, safely and correctly, and try to introduce a bottle perhaps for the first time. In this specific instance. They aren't speaking generally and nor is it a general information leaflet being read by everyone. It's a specific Q&A that you applicable ONLY if you were  breastfeeding and drinking

Edited by Future-self, 15 November 2019 - 11:44 AM.


#30 Ellie bean

Posted 15 November 2019 - 11:52 AM

^^it’d still be nice if they stuck to the facts though even in specific Q&As...

#31 born.a.girl

Posted 15 November 2019 - 11:53 AM

View PostFuture-self, on 15 November 2019 - 11:42 AM, said:

It's addressing a specific question in a specific scenario though.
They are answering the question as for the breastfed baby, as a one off you should breastfeed anyway -  even if you're not sure you're back to 0%. In this instance they are saying that you are better off Breastfeeding than attempting suddenly to go out and decide which type to buy; to attempt to learn to mix formula, safely and correctly, and try to introduce a bottle perhaps for the first time. In this specific instance. They aren't speaking generally and nor is it a general information leaflet being read by everyone. It's a specific Q&A that you applicable ONLY if you were  breastfeeding and drinking

I don't think any of us are taking issue with the fact that they recommend continuing breastfeeding, but I don't think it's nearly so clear cut that the way they have expressed themselves (on what you'd hope was a carefully considered statement).

Quote

• It is better to give a breastfeed with a small amount of alcohol than to feed artificial baby milk. • There are risks in feeding your baby artificial baby milk.*


I've never seen formula referred to as 'artificial' except by people wishing to relegate it to a far inferior status than breastfeeding.

The second sentence is simply incomprehensible without further elaboration. If the advice is directed at breast-feeders, then surely that bit could have been written so many different ways that would have been better?  As it is, it's simply appalling.

I say that as someone who almost fully breastfed for 13 months.


ETA: How about: just like breastfeeding, it takes time and effort to successfully formula feed, and the effort is unlikely to be worth it for one feed.

There are risks with breastfeeding, too.

Edited by born.a.girl, 15 November 2019 - 11:55 AM.


#32 Future-self

Posted 15 November 2019 - 11:58 AM

That's fine, I don't like the term artificial milk either and agree that in information aimed at 'laypeople' its unnecessary.

If it's ok with you though, can we just concentrate on the OP and that issue rather than turn this thread into all the ways the Australian Breastfeeding association should better address not breastfeeding?

It just seems potentially pretty serious and the OP seems really worried and this could derail pretty fast

#33 Melbs2010

Posted 15 November 2019 - 12:01 PM

Like others have said there won't be any research into what amounts of alcohol and at what timing are harmful when breastfeeding. No ethics review would ok a study testing it out on infants and studies relating to alcohol (same as other drugs) tend to exclude subjects who are pregnant or breastfeeding for these reasons.

The formal recommendation is likely to be that there is no safe amount of alcohol to consume while breastfeeding.  Alcohol would likely remain in the breast milk for as long is it remains in the mums bloodstream.  I wouldn't think regular consumption of a few drinks within a couple of hours prior to a feed would be a great idea.  Mostly women seem to abstain from drinking except for a special occasions in which case they might express milk in advance or give some formula.  It would be much harder to plan to drink two or so drinks on a daily basis.

#34 MincePieMasterchef

Posted 15 November 2019 - 01:17 PM

View PostFuture-self, on 15 November 2019 - 11:42 AM, said:

It's addressing a specific question in a specific scenario though.
They are answering the question as for the breastfed baby, as a one off you should breastfeed anyway -  even if you're not sure you're back to 0%. In this instance they are saying that you are better off Breastfeeding than attempting suddenly to go out and decide which type to buy; to attempt to learn to mix formula, safely and correctly, and try to introduce a bottle perhaps for the first time. In this specific instance. They aren't speaking generally and nor is it a general information leaflet being read by everyone. It's a specific Q&A that you applicable ONLY if you were  breastfeeding and drinking

Thats a good point.
Im slightly embarrassed to admit I have no idea how to make a bottle, I know you arent supposed to give it with the baby flat but thats about it. Obviously Id google it but If I were slightly inebriated that might not work!

#35 luckynutcracker

Posted 15 November 2019 - 01:38 PM

Hi again kiwi, I still have flashbacks of the first year, I doubt it will ever go away but it's mostly in the background.
My guilt will be for different things but the pain and regret probably feels similar. x


#36 Freddie'sMum

Posted 15 November 2019 - 01:40 PM

Breastfeeding did not come easy to me with either baby.  I did manage to breastfeed DD#2 and she was born in October.  So that first Christmas I wanted to have a drink of wine, so I fed her, then had half a glass of wine and damn well enjoyed it.

Before I am crucified for doing that, I had not drunk any alcohol during both pregnancies or when I was trying to breastfeed.

#37 luckynutcracker

Posted 15 November 2019 - 01:48 PM

I did that too, dd was also born in October. :)

#38 Ellie bean

Posted 15 November 2019 - 02:52 PM

View PostWannabeMasterchef, on 15 November 2019 - 01:17 PM, said:



Thats a good point.
Im slightly embarrassed to admit I have no idea how to make a bottle, I know you arent supposed to give it with the baby flat but thats about it. Obviously Id google it but If I were slightly inebriated that might not work!
It’s actually surprisingly hard to get any accurate objective info, m i was lucky DD was in the paediatric wars when we had to start ff her as no one on either side of the family had ff before, the advice of the paed nurses was fantastic :)
I personally think it’s a shame the ABA doesn’t publish some info on its website re how to bottle feed for those who are mix feeding, I think that would be invaluable and people would feel it’s info they could trust

#39 yule_maiden

Posted 15 November 2019 - 03:13 PM

Kiwi,  I had to mix feed too, and PND just to make things interesting 🙄. I agree it can be hard reaching out for BFing help when you also have to bottle/FF. Some of the literature is confronting. We do what we can, when  we can and **** all the rest.

I'm glad you are doing well.  It's a hard, and long lonely,  road, mate. Kudos to your strength.

#40 MincePieMasterchef

Posted 15 November 2019 - 03:34 PM

Im not sure if its been mentioned either but presumably the age of the baby and how often it is feeding is relevant as well.

EG in theory if you fed the baby then put it down for the night and had a drink after that and it didn't wake for 5 hours then that drink would be completely out of your system by then. But with a newborn who feeds every 2 hours not so much.

#41 Crazyone26989

Posted 15 November 2019 - 03:36 PM

View PostWannabeMasterchef, on 15 November 2019 - 03:34 PM, said:

Im not sure if its been mentioned either but presumably the age of the baby and how often it is feeding is relevant as well.

EG in theory if you fed the baby then put it down for the night and had a drink after that and it didn't wake for 5 hours then that drink would be completely out of your system by then. But with a newborn who feeds every 2 hours not so much.

This is really important in my opinion.

I can be confident that I’ve got at least 5 hours but more likely 8 or 9 till I need to feed DS.

#42 luckynutcracker

Posted 15 November 2019 - 03:52 PM



It’s actually surprisingly hard to get any accurate objective info, m i was lucky DD was in the paediatric wars when we had to start ff her as no one on either side of the family had ff before, the advice of the paed nurses was fantastic :)
I personally think it’s a shame the ABA doesn’t publish some info on its website re how to bottle feed for those who are mix feeding, I think that would be invaluable and people would feel it’s info they could trust
Quote above

Hi Elliebean, if you search on the ABA website you would find a detailed page on mixed feeding, also how to give formula and bottle feed, as well as links to formula preparation.
It's very extensive, up to date and evidence based (we're actual research evidence exists).
Take a wander around their website, it might surprise you.

Other good websites for infant feeding are Raising children network and Better health channel.

#43 Ellie bean

Posted 15 November 2019 - 03:54 PM

^^thats good to know, thanks lucky2. My oldest is 7 now so I admit I’m probably out of date!

#44 MwahMum

Posted 15 November 2019 - 07:22 PM

Update:

Following on from the info in this thread, she has installed the Feedsafe app and is using it tonight.

Thank you.

For my part, I've also measured out a standard drink so I know what this looks like. (It's actually more than I thought it would be, so I may have been a bit too judgey with her)...

#45 Future-self

Posted 15 November 2019 - 07:55 PM

Using the Feed safe app is a great easy start so that’s a great update. They are   hard days these early ones of  parenting mwahmum so I hope you both have good support form outside too.

#46 premmie

Posted 28 November 2019 - 09:22 AM

View PostSoontobegran, on 15 November 2019 - 07:24 AM, said:

What an awful awful statement to make. Do they really state this?
Must go and look.
As an avid breast feeder and breast feeding educator I do not condone this being said to any parent.

Not breastfeeding has 'potential' risks. The last thing we need is to create any more guilt in a mum whether it is because she enjoys the very odd standard drink or whether she has for some reason not been able to breast feed.

Good god that's an awful statement for them to make. I FF all three of my babies. Very counterproductive to the message they want to convey.




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