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Behaviour issues at daycare


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#1 StillDreaming

Posted 15 November 2019 - 03:06 PM

I was wondering, from anyone who works in child care centres, what procedures there are for dealing with big behaviour issues among 4 year olds.

The centre my ds goes to is dealing with significant issues at the moment and it seems like they’re pretty powerless to do much. Can kids be excluded in extreme cases?

I really feel for the centre but also for ds and the other kids going there.

#2 PhillipaCrawford

Posted 15 November 2019 - 03:46 PM

Not in childcare, sessional kindergarten but still 4 year olds.

When we have children with difficulties I immediately try to determine why, what are the triggers?
If I can figure out why I can change the environment, go to an indoor outdoor program perhaps to reduce the stress. It maybe the child needs a quiet space to withdraw to if everything is on top of him.

Do I need an additional staff member? Or extra parents on duty?

Does a specialist need to come in to assess the child/support the parents?

It may be that this child is vulnerable in someway and needs extra help

#3 José

Posted 15 November 2019 - 03:55 PM

I've known of children whose parents have said they were excluded from daycare.

That's rarely helpful though.
The more helpful thing is to try to figure out why the child is having such difficulties, involve external clinicians as relevant e.g. psychologist and speech therapist, look to provide additional support.

#4 Lime-Polka-Dot

Posted 15 November 2019 - 03:56 PM

Is your child accessing a funded kindergarten program within the daycare? What state are you in? In Funded kindergarten programs in Victoria there is access to a pre-school field officer program. A professional person who comes to observe the child at kinder and offers strategies and support to the staff and families.



#5 Anon1412

Posted 15 November 2019 - 04:31 PM

I am a qualified in a 30 + 3-5 room. We have 3 or 4 boys within the room with behaviour issues. To be honest we don't have much power at all. We do try and identify triggers but often what is a trigger one day, won't be the next and visa versa.
We have one child who engages in rough play daily, but doesn't know when to pull back. This child also mentions that when the teachers are being idiots he will bring a shotgun and shoot them in the face. I asked my director about a behaviour management plan and got the don't bother, he's a middle child, and he's off to school next year blah blah. My centre is a large well known Australia wide one and would never exclude a child. We however just got a young boy who is 2 and was excluded from the last centre for being too difficult (according to parents)
It really is tough but we can't do much. A lot of parents don't want to know either.

#6 Ozquoll

Posted 15 November 2019 - 04:32 PM

View PostLime-Polka-Dot, on 15 November 2019 - 03:56 PM, said:

Is your child accessing a funded kindergarten program within the daycare? What state are you in? In Funded kindergarten programs in Victoria there is access to a pre-school field officer program. A professional person who comes to observe the child at kinder and offers strategies and support to the staff and families.
Now that is interesting. Last year at DS's kindy (not in his class, thankfully) there was a kid who was a strangler - he attacked quite a few kids and the kindy didn't really handle it well. I don't think they got a field officer out to observe or offer suggestions, unfortunately.

#7 StillDreaming

Posted 15 November 2019 - 04:56 PM

Thanks for the replies. I think the centre is trying to do as much as they can but there has been a mass exodus of educators leaving to go to other daycares so it’s all a bit of a mess and hard for management to sort out.

I feel sorry for the kids because, from what I hear, the behaviours seem to be learnt at home (inc horrendous language). I wouldn’t want them excluded because it’s not going to solve anything. I just really wanted to know what access the centres have to resources. I think they may be getting someone in to observe which is great.

Doesn’t make you feel great when educators are leaving every week and also not wanting to send their own kids there!

#8 PhillipaCrawford

Posted 15 November 2019 - 05:45 PM

And for the children already struggling the fact that anyone they have formed a bond with is leaving only exacerbates the behaviour.
Anon that is far too big a group, don't you think.? Even if in ratio that is so many people,  no wonder the kids are acting out.  Sorry you are so unsupported.

Edited by PhillipaCrawford, 15 November 2019 - 05:46 PM.


#9 Lime-Polka-Dot

Posted 15 November 2019 - 06:47 PM

View PostPhillipaCrawford, on 15 November 2019 - 05:45 PM, said:

And for the children already struggling the fact that anyone they have formed a bond with is leaving only exacerbates the behaviour.
Anon that is far too big a group, don't you think.? Even if in ratio that is so many people,  no wonder the kids are acting out.  Sorry you are so unsupported.

Unfortunately groups of 33 with 3 educators have become common. I am thankful my service has rooms that are licensed for 30 and my group has only had 27/28 throughout the year. I've also known of services taking advantage of under the roofline to have up to 27/28 with two staff or one with up to 16/17. I feel 2:22 is better than 3:33.

ETA: At least we are better off since the ratio change from 1:15 to 1:11 for over 3s.

OP unfortunately sometimes there is no easy solution for services but a good quality service will do everything they can to work in partnership to support the child and family. Offering further professional development in behaviour guidance for staff, determining if inclusion support funding is available to provide an additional educator, behaviour plans etc.

Edited by Lime-Polka-Dot, 15 November 2019 - 06:53 PM.


#10 Lallalla

Posted 15 November 2019 - 07:18 PM

I’ve seen it handled really differently at different centres and by different carers. At a centre my kids went to for a few months (there were so so many problems there but that’s another story) there was a kid with some fairly significant speech delays and I don’t know what else but it unsurprisingly affected her behaviour and 80% of the staff didn’t seem to have any idea how to handle her and completely out of their depth. Even though my kids were sometimes in her firing line my heart used to break for this kid. I always wished I could run into her parent at drop off because the level of care she was getting just wasn’t good enough.

Edited to clarify, I mean when the parents were not present I saw things happen that if it was my kid I would want to know about. And since she was mostly non-verbal she wasn’t going to be able to tell them.

Edited by Lallalla, 15 November 2019 - 07:19 PM.


#11 PatG

Posted 15 November 2019 - 08:56 PM

View PostLime-Polka-Dot, on 15 November 2019 - 06:47 PM, said:

Unfortunately groups of 33 with 3 educators have become common.


Ours has 44:4 and it sucks. They split into 3 groups for structured activities. And run amok when unstructured.

#12 Lime-Polka-Dot

Posted 15 November 2019 - 09:20 PM

I've never actually seen or heard of this delivery before but realise it's compliant in a space licensed to be adequate size wise. I shudder to imagine! Hats off to you I'm sure you and your team are doing the best you can to make it work. Just doesn't align with best practice in my personal teaching philosophy. How can you really devote adequate supervision, one on one attention and a quality program in those conditions? I'm guessing this is in a very large LDC?

Edited by Lime-Polka-Dot, 15 November 2019 - 09:22 PM.


#13 MessyJ

Posted 15 November 2019 - 09:49 PM

View PostLime-Polka-Dot, on 15 November 2019 - 09:20 PM, said:

How can you really devote adequate supervision, one on one attention and a quality program in those conditions? I'm guessing this is in a very large LDC?

Every educators cry! If only more directors thought from this perspective though!! Mine have mostly been all about the dollar, after all - it is a business! Not best practice at all, but thankfully the educators themselves really cared so the business as a whole could pull it off...

At one center we had a child with significant violent behaviours and he was funded for 100% of allocated extra staff hours as he was autistic, however the max happened to be for 5 hours a day and he was there for 7. So as a center they self-funded the extra 2 hours of one-on-one care for a educator to support and shadow the child (to protect others from his violent outbursts) but that was only after a big outcry from struggling staff and finally letters and complaints from parents...

#14 PhillipaCrawford

Posted 16 November 2019 - 06:52 AM

4:44 is ridiculous.

We do 3:26 in my kindergarten room, parents wouldn't want anymore.

When you get to that number of children , number of staff doesn't matter it is simply far too many people bouncing off each other.

Can you imagine how overwhelming that would have been for the child with Autism.

Caring educators should not be a reason for a profit based centre to abuse those in their care.

#15 Hands Up

Posted 16 November 2019 - 08:05 AM

Gosh our preschool daycare room has 25 kids but because so many use it to match school hours they have a third educator there from 9-3 each day. It works brilliantly. They are all over any concerning behaviour but of course no daycare centre can do much if the parent(s) aren’t on the same page.




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