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Don't make it political (Mentions Fires)


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#1 IamtheMumma

Posted 25 December 2019 - 06:52 PM

https://twitter.com/...274103787507712


I saw this posted through Facebook. The generosity of Australians is heartwarming. But a few of the posts were "Lets not make this political, focus on the good stuff"

That confuses me because climate change and the huge loss people are suffering is political. Our governments (state and federal) have failed us in protecting our environments and, as a by product, our homes.

Are these the people who stick their head in the sand and pretend everything is hunky dory?

#2 *Spikey*

Posted 25 December 2019 - 08:24 PM

I now respond with a bunch of fact memes. And yes, these are the same people who voted for Scotty from Marketing and think he's a good bloke.

#3 BadCat

Posted 25 December 2019 - 08:26 PM

In my experience, the people who say not to make it political are the same people who say now is not the time to talk about climate change/gun control.. whatever.

These are the kind of people who complain about a leaking roof when it rains but don't fix it when the sun is shining because it's not leaking then.

Some people simply can't bear to talk about difficult topics.  And they prefer it if nobody else does, because it interrupts their maudlin wallowing in other people's emotions.

#4 FearsomeFeralFreak

Posted 25 December 2019 - 09:10 PM

Drives me mental.

It is political, you numpties. And you know it. You just don’t want to talk about it because it highlights you voted for a moron. A party of morons.

#5 hills mum bec

Posted 25 December 2019 - 09:32 PM

I am currently living in a town that has been absolutely ravaged by fires in the past few days.  I know so many people who have lost everything.  I have witnessed an outpouring of love, support & generosity from our close knit community.  At the moment I am not going to be tolerant of anybody trying to point out any negative aspects to the only positives our community are currently experiencing.  That does not mean I don’t believe volunteer firefighters shouldn’t be paid or that I don’t believe that climate change is an issue that the politicians should be taking more action on.  It just means that I think there are some beautiful, generous people out there and I don’t want their actions to be clouded by political issues.  At the moment we are going to grasp any positive we can get.

#6 No Drama Please

Posted 25 December 2019 - 09:37 PM

Pretending reality isn’t happening doesn’t make something less real. You can say “don’t make something political” as many times as you like, it doesn’t change the outcome”. Giving people an option to hide behind their choices doesn’t make their options better, just makes them feel more comfortable.

#7 kadoodle

Posted 25 December 2019 - 09:41 PM

It shouldn’t be political though. These are scientifically proven facts, not an opinion about the relative benefits of the welfare state.

#8 Backtoschoolchef

Posted 25 December 2019 - 09:53 PM

Im truly sorry to hear of the losses of peoples homes and livlihoods.

People on local fb (SA) keep saying its the greens fault for not allowing back burning.  

Reality is there are controlled burns in SA and you are also allowed to burn on private land to manage it - with advice from the CFS. But it has to be done under carefully controlled conditions and the window of time with those condtions is getting less.

There was actually meant to be a controlled burn in Cudlee Creek on Sunday after it broke out. Sadly they couldnt do it in time.

Edited by MincePieMasterchef, 25 December 2019 - 10:04 PM.


#9 Sancti-claws

Posted 25 December 2019 - 10:03 PM

At the risk of getting a flaming, and while I do not disagree with the Climate Change factors in any way, I get to sit at the table with some of the people who do blame the constrained land management policies because they do actually get to deal first hand with the consequences of being neighbours to State and Federal land.

I really do think that politics should be kept out of the very real issues that are at play right now - the important things right now is that people are losing their homes and their livelihoods and what they thought that their lives would be like in the next bit; that there are people who are helping their neighbours, friends and strangers through some very tough times; that we all need to be kind to each other.

I also think that there needs to be a full and frank discussion - on all sides - on what needs to be done, what could be done better, what we can all learn and what we need to investigate further - without their being it about votes and politics and bragging rights, but it being about how we are going to be at all sustainable into the future.  And we all need to be open to listen to what everyone brings to the table.

#10 kadoodle

Posted 26 December 2019 - 05:34 AM

View PostSancti-claws, on 25 December 2019 - 10:03 PM, said:

At the risk of getting a flaming, and while I do not disagree with the Climate Change factors in any way, I get to sit at the table with some of the people who do blame the constrained land management policies because they do actually get to deal first hand with the consequences of being neighbours to State and Federal land.

I really do think that politics should be kept out of the very real issues that are at play right now - the important things right now is that people are losing their homes and their livelihoods and what they thought that their lives would be like in the next bit; that there are people who are helping their neighbours, friends and strangers through some very tough times; that we all need to be kind to each other.

I also think that there needs to be a full and frank discussion - on all sides - on what needs to be done, what could be done better, what we can all learn and what we need to investigate further - without their being it about votes and politics and bragging rights, but it being about how we are going to be at all sustainable into the future.  And we all need to be open to listen to what everyone brings to the table.

My place borders state forest. Back burning and ground fuel collection hasn’t happened because no one wants to pay for it (State says it’s council, council says nuh uh, it’s you), and because roadside fatalities from wood collection by any idiot with a chainsaw isn’t good, but no one wants to pay for traffic management so it can be collected safely. Throw in a shorter window, antagonism between the cfa and DCSE (government department of environment) and fewer volunteers and volunteer hours, and it’s all just getting scary out there.

#11 Amica

Posted 26 December 2019 - 06:38 AM

It is political and I will make it political every single time. My region has now lived through 9 x 1 in 100 year natural disasters in the last 12 years, all brought on by climate change as well as water mismanagement. Damn right it is political.

Our health both mental and physical, our insurance premiums, business, tourism industry, our overall economy and more are all affected by climate change.

A politicians greatest ally are those that bang on about not making the things they are in charge of, political. People who say this driveme nuts.

#12 TrixieBelden

Posted 26 December 2019 - 06:48 AM

I think you can reflect on positives and also discuss the science behind why this happened and the political failures that have left us in this position.

Most people can manage to think about multiple things.

#13 WaitForMe

Posted 26 December 2019 - 07:29 AM

View PostMincePieMasterchef, on 25 December 2019 - 09:53 PM, said:

Im truly sorry to hear of the losses of peoples homes and livlihoods.

People on local fb (SA) keep saying its the greens fault for not allowing back burning.  

Reality is there are controlled burns in SA and you are also allowed to burn on private land to manage it - with advice from the CFS. But it has to be done under carefully controlled conditions and the window of time with those condtions is getting less.

There was actually meant to be a controlled burn in Cudlee Creek on Sunday after it broke out. Sadly they couldnt do it in time.

This 'its the greens fault as they don't allow back burning' has been going on a while, not just in SA.

Is it actually based on anything?

#14 born.a.girl

Posted 26 December 2019 - 07:32 AM

I suspect many are going to have a different perspective on this, despite perhaps completely agreeing with the causes behind it.


If your house has just burnt down I doubt it's helpful to have someone tell you 'it's ScoMo's fault'.

We do need to take the context into account.

#15 JBH

Posted 26 December 2019 - 07:42 AM

I’d be ok with not making it political if the outcome of that were universal acceptance of the science and swift steps towards bipartisan action on climate change. Where that isn’t happening, it’s political.

Bills Mum, i’m sorry for what your community is going through, and so proud of the people who have shown such tremendous courage, generosity and humanity, but in a climate (no pun intended) characterised by denial of human influence on natural disasters, unfortunately we need to grab these opportunities to try to help people see a need for action. Blame the politicians who refuse to accept that this is political - they are forcing the hand of those who accept the science and want change.

#16 kadoodle

Posted 26 December 2019 - 07:46 AM

View PostTrixieBelden, on 26 December 2019 - 06:48 AM, said:

I think you can reflect on positives and also discuss the science behind why this happened and the political failures that have left us in this position.

Most people can manage to think about multiple things.

You’re overestimating the intelligence of my relatives.

#17 ~Jolly_F~

Posted 26 December 2019 - 07:47 AM

These things have to be made political otherwise crickets.

If we just focus on the beautiful generous people, these governments think phew we got a free pass.

#18 *Spikey*

Posted 26 December 2019 - 07:49 AM

View PostSancti-claws, on 25 December 2019 - 10:03 PM, said:

At the risk of getting a flaming, and while I do not disagree with the Climate Change factors in any way, I get to sit at the table with some of the people who do blame the constrained land management policies because they do actually get to deal first hand with the consequences of being neighbours to State and Federal land.

I really do think that politics should be kept out of the very real issues that are at play right now - the important things right now is that people are losing their homes and their livelihoods and what they thought that their lives would be like in the next bit; that there are people who are helping their neighbours, friends and strangers through some very tough times; that we all need to be kind to each other.

I also think that there needs to be a full and frank discussion - on all sides - on what needs to be done, what could be done better, what we can all learn and what we need to investigate further - without their being it about votes and politics and bragging rights, but it being about how we are going to be at all sustainable into the future.  And we all need to be open to listen to what everyone brings to the table.

Of course it's political.

Both sides of politics are at fault.

Now is the time to be having the discussion and making noise about the lack of equipment (some extra water bombing aircraft before the fire season gets fully underway would be good - remember, this is only the beginning of the season) - replacement vehicles, spare parts, updated equipment, proper breathing apparatus, sufficient uniforms, proper remuneration - all political.

Sweeping it under the carpet until 'later' isn't going to help those fighting fires right now - they need that equipment now, not on the twelfth of never (the bushfire season started in winter this year). If we don't make a fuss now, more of them will die. More houses will be lost, and more land the size of a small European country will burn.

Being political about demanding changes to the way we deal with the problem does not in any way detract from the way communities are standing together and helping each other out - we can do both.

Our firies need us to be political, without our voices, nothing is going to change for them. They're a little preoccupied at the moment to be fully engaged in the political process of change, as you've pointed out. The ones who've had their say (briefly, in-between fires) all mention they need more support. Our job is to get it for them, through community support and the political process.

#19 kimasa

Posted 26 December 2019 - 07:59 AM

I think who you're making it political to is the big thing and I have experienced situations in the past, primarily when I've worked in a relief centre, where people can't differentiate between the two.

Making it political in larger discussions, very important.

Making it political in a one on one conversation to the person who has just lost their home and is trying to figure out where to live, dude, shut the **** up.

#20 Literary Lemur

Posted 26 December 2019 - 08:04 AM

View PostSancti-claws, on 25 December 2019 - 10:03 PM, said:


I also think that there needs to be a full and frank discussion - on all sides - on what needs to be done, what could be done better, what we can all learn and what we need to investigate further - without their being it about votes and politics and bragging rights, but it being about how we are going to be at all sustainable into the future.  And we all need to be open to listen to what everyone brings to the table.

I this lies at the heart of why its becomes political. In an ideal world it would be a partisan issue and everyone could sit at the table and find the best way forward. I think the fact that debate is being shut down and climate change being denied means we have really lost our way. I watched "The Climate for change" last night and its so frustrating how backward and lacking in leadership Australia is over this issue.

#21 BadCat

Posted 26 December 2019 - 08:08 AM

View Postborn.a.girl, on 26 December 2019 - 07:32 AM, said:

I suspect many are going to have a different perspective on this, despite perhaps completely agreeing with the causes behind it.


If your house has just burnt down I doubt it's helpful to have someone tell you 'it's ScoMo's fault'.

We do need to take the context into account.

Yes, very much about context.

I'm not about to go into a community that has been devastated by a natural disaster and start urging them to vote a particular way, or lobby for certain action.  I'd be entirely guided by the needs of whoever I was speaking to.

But online, in a large discussion which can include any person from anywhere in the world?  There's nothing wrong with getting political in there at all.

Edited by BadCat, 26 December 2019 - 08:09 AM.


#22 *Spikey*

Posted 26 December 2019 - 08:10 AM

View Postkimasa, on 26 December 2019 - 07:59 AM, said:

I think who you're making it political to is the big thing and I have experienced situations in the past, primarily when I've worked in a relief centre, where people can't differentiate between the two.

Making it political in larger discussions, very important.

Making it political in a one on one conversation to the person who has just lost their home and is trying to figure out where to live, dude, shut the **** up.

Sorry, but you can STFRU yourself.

I have been living with the threat of bushfires for the past month and a half and I am OVER people telling me I cannot be angry, and I am not allowed to direct my ire at the government. I can, I will, and I am bloody well going to continue to do so until things change. I can do that while supporting my friends who've lost homes, buildings and their livelihood, or who are trying to support animals rescued from the fire grounds.

No-one is making political conversations with people who've just lost their homes. But it is the right of those who have to pass judgement on governments for their lack of planning, foresight and provision. And if they want to, then we should give them the platform to do so, and make their voices powerful.

#23 kimasa

Posted 26 December 2019 - 08:20 AM

Spikey, people are and people do.

And as someone whose been the person whose role it has been is to try and manage a building full of high emotion, it is not helpful in the slightest for those places to become political debates. All that does is hurt people.

I've lived through it too. As both a victim and a centre worker. People do that. It does not help.

#24 FearsomeFeralFreak

Posted 26 December 2019 - 08:21 AM

We all know the “it’s not the time to talk about it now” really means “we are not going to talk about it ever”

In political speak it plays out as:
Now = “you are a heartless person! People have lost their lives, this is not the time to cast blame and talk about this.”
Later= “what is your problem? Everything is fine with bushfires! And look! We have this new (insert current issue) to deal with right now.”

Edited by FearsomeFeralFreak, 26 December 2019 - 08:21 AM.


#25 born.a.girl

Posted 26 December 2019 - 08:30 AM

I joined a facebook group focused on the drought, to get a better understanding of the effects on individuals, not just be informed by what the media wish to tell me.

I can't believe the number of people actually suffering from it who deny the causes.


Cyclone Tracy was brought up, and someone said that 'apparently we're supposed to get worse ones ... I'm still waiting'.  Seriously, are people stupid, uninformed, or naive?




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