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Don't make it political (Mentions Fires)


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#26 Amica

Posted 26 December 2019 - 08:33 AM

View PostFearsomeFeralFreak, on 26 December 2019 - 08:21 AM, said:

We all know the “it’s not the time to talk about it now” really means “we are not going to talk about it ever”

In political speak it plays out as:
Now = “you are a heartless person! People have lost their lives, this is not the time to cast blame and talk about this.”
Later= “what is your problem? Everything is fine with bushfires! And look! We have this new (insert current issue) to deal with right now.”

Absolutely.

View PostFearsomeFeralFreak, on 26 December 2019 - 08:21 AM, said:

We all know the “it’s not the time to talk about it now” really means “we are not going to talk about it ever”

In political speak it plays out as:
Now = “you are a heartless person! People have lost their lives, this is not the time to cast blame and talk about this.”
Later= “what is your problem? Everything is fine with bushfires! And look! We have this new (insert current issue) to deal with right now.”

Absolutely.

#27 hills mum bec

Posted 26 December 2019 - 08:48 AM

View PostBadCat, on 26 December 2019 - 08:08 AM, said:



Yes, very much about context.

I'm not about to go into a community that has been devastated by a natural disaster and start urging them to vote a particular way, or lobby for certain action.  I'd be entirely guided by the needs of whoever I was speaking to.

But online, in a large discussion which can include any person from anywhere in the world?  There's nothing wrong with getting political in there at all.

But the article that was linked by the OP was a story about the generosity of the community towards RFS volunteers and I don’t think that is the place to be having that discussion.  It takes the spotlight away from the people who are working tirelessly during these catastrophic events.  These people should celebrated.  There is a time & place for criticism of the government and a story highlighting a positive amongst the turmoil is not it.

#28 Lucrezia Bauble

Posted 26 December 2019 - 08:57 AM

but it’s all in context isn’t it? the local community are generous to the RFS - which is great - but their generosity  is required because of an abysmal lack of federal funding and general government inertia towards the very real consequences of climate change. the two are connected. i don’t think we should have the gloss and the warm fuzzy feelings without the cold hard truth that real progress, real improvements can only come via political motivation and governments actually DOING something. private charity and personal generosity only gets us so far.


#29 ~Jolly_F~

Posted 26 December 2019 - 09:08 AM

View Posthills mum bec, on 26 December 2019 - 08:48 AM, said:



But the article that was linked by the OP was a story about the generosity of the community towards RFS volunteers and I don’t think that is the place to be having that discussion.  It takes the spotlight away from the people who are working tirelessly during these catastrophic events.  These people should celebrated.  There is a time & place for criticism of the government and a story highlighting a positive amongst the turmoil is not it.

Wasn’t it kind of the point that community’s should not have to be generous in times like these, the government should be doing more.

I don’t see how you can separate them. I agree context is important but this is a political issue and the government is using the generous average person to be able to gloss over it and do **** all.

#30 BadCat

Posted 26 December 2019 - 09:15 AM

View Posthills mum bec, on 26 December 2019 - 08:48 AM, said:

But the article that was linked by the OP was a story about the generosity of the community towards RFS volunteers and I don’t think that is the place to be having that discussion.  It takes the spotlight away from the people who are working tirelessly during these catastrophic events.  These people should celebrated.  There is a time & place for criticism of the government and a story highlighting a positive amongst the turmoil is not it.

I disagree.

I think the fact that the volunteers are doing it so tough and are relying on the generosity of the community is exactly the place to have a conversation about why the government isn't supporting them.

#31 *Spikey*

Posted 26 December 2019 - 09:17 AM

Why are you trying to silence people?

You claim you care, but then don't want them to have their say?

#32 *Spikey*

Posted 26 December 2019 - 09:21 AM

View Postkimasa, on 26 December 2019 - 08:20 AM, said:

Spikey, people are and people do.

And as someone whose been the person whose role it has been is to try and manage a building full of high emotion, it is not helpful in the slightest for those places to become political debates. All that does is hurt people.

I've lived through it too. As both a victim and a centre worker. People do that. It does not help.

You know what? This p*sses me off.

You are silencing people because it isn't convenient.

What may be good for you as a victim or centre worker, is not what is good for everyone.

#33 rosie28

Posted 26 December 2019 - 09:21 AM

View PostWaitForMe, on 26 December 2019 - 07:29 AM, said:



This 'its the greens fault as they don't allow back burning' has been going on a while, not just in SA.

Is it actually based on anything?

No it’s not. The Greens aren’t in power and practically speaking have little influence on actual implemented policy. A bit here and there perhaps depending on the make up of individual parliaments from time to time.

I think anyone who doesn’t want it to be political is either so privileged they’re not affected by the situation (yet) or they’ve misunderstood how climate change and fire management takes place in this county. Mostly the former- everyone I know who says “oh I’m not interested in politics” is just fortunate to be able to buy themselves out of interest, or happens to be white, middle class at least and usually male. Politics works for them so no interest required.

#34 kimasa

Posted 26 December 2019 - 09:28 AM

View Post*Spikey*, on 26 December 2019 - 09:21 AM, said:



You know what? This p*sses me off.

You are silencing people because it isn't convenient.

What may be good for you as a victim or centre worker, is not what is good for everyone.

So you're suggesting that we should let media come in and force questions on victims who have fled and are in a bad place, emotionally?
That we should let people further upset those who are already upset, and sit back and go "Oh well we can't silence people, they can have at it"?

That's cruel.

#35 Lucrezia Bauble

Posted 26 December 2019 - 09:33 AM

View Postkimasa, on 26 December 2019 - 09:28 AM, said:



So you're suggesting that we should let media come in and force questions on victims who have fled and are in a bad place, emotionally?
That we should let people further upset those who are already upset, and sit back and go "Oh well we can't silence people, they can have at it"?

That's cruel.

no - if people don’t want to talk to the media then they should tell them to go away. that’s understandable. but some people *do* want to talk, they do want answers. they do want action from government. people who have lost homes, people who have given up their time and holidays to fight this thing - many of them do want to explore the political angle. and people are capable of feeling and expressing many emotions and thoughts at the same time - we can comfort people who have lost loved ones or their homes, feel gratitude toward the RFS, appreciate the generosity of the local community AND demand action from our government and talk about political causes. we can do all of those things.


#36 kimasa

Posted 26 December 2019 - 09:35 AM

View PostLucrezia Bauble, on 26 December 2019 - 09:33 AM, said:



no - if people don’t want to talk to the media then they should tell them to go away. that’s understandable. but some people *do* want to talk, they do want answers. they do want action from government. people who have lost homes, people who have given up their time and holidays to fight this thing - many of them do want to explore the political angle. and people are capable of feeling and expressing many emotions and thoughts at the same time - we can comfort people who have lost loved ones or their homes, feel gratitude toward the RFS, appreciate the generosity of the local community AND demand action from our government and talk about political causes. we can do all of those things.

Which is awesome and exactly what should be done.

But my original point that Spikey took issue with was who you are expressing that to, which is where some of this "don't make it political" arguments are coming from.

If anyone thinks they have a right to beat victims over the head with their political beliefs in direct conversation then they are cruel, callous people and absolutely no benefit comes from that.

Know your audience.

#37 EsmeLennox

Posted 26 December 2019 - 09:36 AM

I don’t think this situation can *not* be made political, and if we do, then we’re ignoring the ****ing massive elephant in the room...! This is political because politicians have failed to act. Failed to plan. Failed to consider the future.

Whilst I think sensitivity to those directly affected is required, it is absolutely the time to make it political. Now. As awful as it is, this tragedy needs to be used to leverage the government through a groundswell of anger at the appalling leadership in the climate space for so many years in the hope that something may actually change.

If we don’t, as a people, make it political then we are doing an enormous disservice to the people who have suffered, are suffering and the people who will come after us.

Don’t make it political...phhffffttttt.

#38 hills mum bec

Posted 26 December 2019 - 09:37 AM

I think I am done with this thread.

#39 purplekitty

Posted 26 December 2019 - 09:40 AM

This is a failure in leadership,planning and support.

Families have been put in greater danger because of lack of foresight and funding.
Volunteers are risking their lives against insurmountable odds because of inaction by numerous governments despite pleading and advice from experts and those at the coalface.

It reminds me of the gun control debate in the US.
Denial only leads to more heartache.

Things can get worse.
Political pressure can make sure we are more prepared to prevent loss of life and property and in a position to support communities in crisis afterwards.

We shouldn't be manipulated by politicians who want to worship a surplus and not be held accountable for not delivering responsible government when they are funnelling money to their cronies and special interest groups.

The media is giving them a free pass,the electorate has to do their job for them.

Perhaps the money given to the dodgy Great Barrier Reef company or the refurbishment for Shark One could have been better spent saving houses and lives.
Someone has to tell them that.

#40 BadCat

Posted 26 December 2019 - 09:46 AM

Thing is, there are people in affected communities, people who have lost houses, who do want to make it political.

Just as everyone has the right to voice an opinion, everyone has the right to not engage in a conversation they prefer to avoid at that time for whatever reason.

Nobody is forcing anyone to engage in political discussion.  And nobody should be silencing those who wish to talk about the politics of the situation.

#41 Backtoschoolchef

Posted 26 December 2019 - 09:51 AM

View Postrosie28, on 26 December 2019 - 09:21 AM, said:

No it’s not. The Greens aren’t in power and practically speaking have little influence on actual implemented policy. A bit here and there perhaps depending on the make up of individual parliaments from time to time.


I find some people confuse 'the greens' (political party) with 'greenies' (environmental activists) -  neither of them have much influence on our current government!

Quite a few people on FB were blaming 'the greens' for the fires because they 'don't allow burning in national parks'.  I just wanted to clarify that is not correct in SA as I know people who work in the field and we definately have controlled burns. Not quite the topic of OPs link but related - because not talking about these things allows incorrect information to spread.

Edited by MincePieMasterchef, 26 December 2019 - 10:02 AM.


#42 purplekitty

Posted 26 December 2019 - 09:53 AM

There are many people on social media ,who are directly affected by these fires,who are begging for the rest of Australia to take notice.

They are begging for support and action.
They feel abandoned.

#43 BadCat

Posted 26 December 2019 - 10:03 AM

True.

I see a lot of people from fire affected areas begging people to get involved with the politics of it all.

#44 Kallie88

Posted 26 December 2019 - 10:12 AM

I feel like some of this debate also gets into the false dichotomy of like "all the greenie city people trying to make it political when they haven't suffered" vs "all the country probably lib voters that don't wanna admit they brought it on themselves" but of course there would be plenty of deniers that are sitting pretty cosy in the city going "don't make it political" not because they care about those suffering, but because they don't want change and prefer to stick their privileged thumbs in their ears (and let's face it they need to be told off for insisting it shouldn't be political) and plenty of people on affected areas who are environmentally conscious and devastated not only for their losses, but for seeing the inactivity of climate change create those losses, and I'm sure many of them want this debate to be political even if they don't have the strength to do it themselves (and they shouldn't have to)

#45 ipsee

Posted 26 December 2019 - 10:13 AM

I can see that having direct experience of argumants in a relief centre would stick with you. But we can't silence a whole nation. We want action. And the media in relief centres is not black and white either. I'm horrified by the government ban on media, that is worrying censorship. They could easily restrict them to one area and let people go to them.  At the moment it seems like the government is hiding behind the families who have lost everything, by not letting people question anything for fear of hurting  feelings.

#46 *Spikey*

Posted 26 December 2019 - 10:14 AM

View Postkimasa, on 26 December 2019 - 09:28 AM, said:

So you're suggesting that we should let media come in and force questions on victims who have fled and are in a bad place, emotionally?
That we should let people further upset those who are already upset, and sit back and go "Oh well we can't silence people, they can have at it"?

That's cruel.

Or you know, you could let the person decide for themselves rather than you taking on the job of knowing what's best for them, just like Scotty from Marketing.

While I am sure your heart is in the right place (as are most volunteers), I don't get your need to silence the victims or treat them like children.

#47 Lucrezia Bauble

Posted 26 December 2019 - 10:25 AM

i just think the old “too soon, don’t politicise things while people are grieving” adage lets our political leaders off the hook, and they know it and exploit it. if a family is killed by a drunk driver, people (rightly) blame and heap scorn on driving while under the influence and demand personal responsibility for a persons actions.  young men were being killed in drunken fights at Kings Cross and an entire entertainment precinct was effectively shut down after midnight. it’s right and proper to lay the blame where it belongs. when a fire is caused by an arsonist we don’t hesitate blaming the arsonist.


#48 TrixieBelden

Posted 26 December 2019 - 11:22 AM

I’m surprised to hear lots of people who haven’t experienced any losses are commenting on the politics of the situation directly to those who have in evacuation centres.

That was not my experience of evacuation centres on the two occasions we ended up in them.

The media not having access to evacuation centres can be interpreted in a number of ways, not all of them being about what’s best for the people who’ve been evacuated.

My own experience of family members who fight fires is that they don’t want the spotlight on them. They want the fires to stop. My father would have been very happy to have never received any acknowledgment again if he didn’t have to risk his life and the lives of others.

#49 IkeaAddict

Posted 26 December 2019 - 11:31 AM

My mum spent a good part of yeterday defending Scomo and everything he's done, and not done. It was like banging my head against a birck wall. I gave up and started drinking

#50 rosie28

Posted 26 December 2019 - 11:42 AM

View PostMincePieMasterchef, on 26 December 2019 - 09:51 AM, said:



I find some people confuse 'the greens' (political party) with 'greenies' (environmental activists) -  neither of them have much influence on our current government!

Quite a few people on FB were blaming 'the greens' for the fires because they 'don't allow burning in national parks'.  I just wanted to clarify that is not correct in SA as I know people who work in the field and we definately have controlled burns. Not quite the topic of OPs link but related - because not talking about these things allows incorrect information to spread.

Definitely confusion between The Greens and greenies, though I agree that neither have “prohibited” anything! There are controlled burns in Victoria too.




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