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Immigrant parents realising their native country has moved on


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#26 Autumn Tones

Posted 27 December 2019 - 09:17 PM

View PostCerridwen, on 27 December 2019 - 09:08 PM, said:

Oh yes.  My father and I basically butted heads and constantly argued from around my 10th birthday in the early 70's. Probably even before that but that is when it became serious. According to him it was the bad influence of my Australian friends that made me so disrespectful.

I hated being the daughter of a strict Southern Italian father who constantly reminded me that I would never have behaved the way I did, if I had been brought up in Italy. Apparently there would be no boyfriends, discos, the wearing of jeans and or any item of clothing that would be seen as "too revealing."  I used to do all that and more, much of it behind his back. When I turned 18, I moved in with my boyfriend and he came over and stole my knives and other cooking utensils and said I could have them back when I came back home. Actually he said that and a whole lot more that isn't going to be repeated here.

A few months later he went back to Italy for the first time since coming to Australia as a teenager. On his return he had photos of my female cousins smoking, wearing shorts and with boyfriends. When I mentioned it he laughed and said that Italy wasn't still in the dark ages, as if I had been the one who thought it was. He has been back many times since and loves to go "home" for a visit and to spend time with his remaining siblings that never came to Australia but would never go back to live. Australia is his home now and as an old man he is fully aware of how much better his life has been as a result.


I wonder if he initially behaved that way because he felt lost in a new culture when he moved here, and as a result felt like he was losing you as well

#27 Black Velvet

Posted 27 December 2019 - 09:20 PM

Yes. Very conservative parents from Italy.

I resented growing up and becoming an adult who (because I was born a female) was supposed to be a certain way. The thing is I did everything I was forbidden to do, just behind their backs. The day I told them all the things I had done, well there was nothing to be said because *grandchildren*

Then when they went back to visit their relatives in Italy, they realised the young generation were just as modern as Australians.

#28 Zeppelina

Posted 27 December 2019 - 09:36 PM

View Post#YKG, on 27 December 2019 - 08:30 PM, said:

I think when people immigrate to another country they either hold on tight to the identity they grew up with or reject it. I think it depends on events of the time.
Yes, this sums it up well, I think. Either way though, it often results in an unrealistic view of the home country (and/or the new country).

View Post#YKG, on 27 December 2019 - 08:30 PM, said:

On the flip side I have friends (in early 30’s) who have their weird old view about their parents country of birth, they themselves have never been there but somehow have this idealistic view when the reality is very different and not what their parents or family remember.
Yeah this has been my experience with cousins and friends whose parents are from the same country as my parents. They either have a very idealistic view (and often end up being quite anti-Australia), or else they have a very pessimistic image of it (especially if their parents' attitudes are still stuck in the past).

#29 Cerridwen

Posted 27 December 2019 - 09:44 PM

View PostAutumn Tones, on 27 December 2019 - 09:17 PM, said:

I wonder if he initially behaved that way because he felt lost in a new culture when he moved here, and as a result felt like he was losing you as well

I don't think so. He was trying to be controlling because I would not accept his rules. Rules which were based on how things were in Southern Italy 15-20 years earlier. He believed that girls were meant to be at home and doing housework until they got married. I had no intention of doing any of that. Most of my older cousins in Australia had husbands found for them and were strictly chaperoned by brothers, uncles etc.  Also my mother was not Italian and they had been married for quite some time by then.

#30 Chchgirl

Posted 27 December 2019 - 09:44 PM

Yes although it was worse with one of my friend's parents. When we went to Italy in the 90's to stay with her cousin and his parents, we were shocked how backward everyone was in Australia.

In fact all of Europe made us feel lije we were fron a little backwater!

#31 Autumn Tones

Posted 27 December 2019 - 10:08 PM

View PostSled Zeppelin(a), on 27 December 2019 - 09:36 PM, said:


Yes, this sums it up well, I think. Either way though, it often results in an unrealistic view of the home country (and/or the new country).


Yeah this has been my experience with cousins and friends whose parents are from the same country as my parents. They either have a very idealistic view (and often end up being quite anti-Australia), or else they have a very pessimistic image of it (especially if their parents' attitudes are still stuck in the past).




Years ago I came across an episode from The Sopranos where one of the characters visits Italy for the first time. He glorifies his Italian heritage, but much to his dismay, the locals treat him with disdain, he doesn't like the authentic food and his image of Italy overall was nothing like he perceived.

#32 annodam

Posted 28 December 2019 - 12:09 AM

View PostImperatorFuriosa, on 27 December 2019 - 07:45 PM, said:

Wow, you typed actually typed "wog" in a sentence and posted it.



And the issue with that is what exactly?
I type wog all the time.

My folks were the same as well (dad mostly) he busted our ear drums about Greece as youngsters.  On & on it went until they finally went back & actually saw what a sh*thole that place really is.  They felt like foreigners & when a lady at the shops one time said to mum, you're not from here, you're either from Canada or Australia, I remember laughing my bloody head off!  
What an eye opener!
They then realised why they emigrated to AU in the first place.
My folks migrated in the 60s, dad went back a few times, mum only twice, she didn't actually want to go back the second time & dad kinda persuaded her.
Soon as she set foot on AU soil, she told him in no uncertain terms she will never leave AU again!
And I don't blame her!

Then, came the best bit, after dad passed away, I did a DNA Test & it came back as 78% Bulgarian Gypsy, 20% Turk & 2% Albanian, hahahaha!
I'm actually loving it, so my origins aren't even Greek but the best part is actually telling my staunch reloes we have Turkish blood, hahahahaha!!!
I have nearly started WWIII with those d*ckheads!


EFS:

Edited by annodam, 28 December 2019 - 12:12 AM.


#33 Kiwi Bicycle

Posted 28 December 2019 - 05:53 AM

View PostFreddie, on 27 December 2019 - 09:17 PM, said:

It's interesting because we have lived here for nearly 20 years and I do not feel Australian in the least.

Yet, when we go back to NZ it has changed so much, it doesn't feel like home anymore.  So I feel like I live in no man's land- caught between two similar yet very different countries.

I'm just over 8 years living here in Australia but I guess the annual visits back to NZ still make it feel like home. All our parents and some siblings are there and every visit we see what changes have been made so still feel in touch. I still read NZ news sites as well. I wonder with my parents planning to sell my childhood home in the near future if that will change as I still have vivid dreams about the house.
Do I have rose coloured glasses about NZ? No because I know the struggles they have there. We could afford to buy a house in Australia where it was and still is out of our reach in Auckland. DH also has employment opportunities we don't have in NZ.

My grandmother imiigrated out on England in the 60s and yes, to her, NZ was a backwater compared to her life in Leeds. She visited in the 1980s  and found, no it wasn't the sane as she remembered. She didn't visit again after that.

#34 Crombek

Posted 28 December 2019 - 07:11 AM

View Postkimasa, on 27 December 2019 - 07:57 PM, said:

Malta regularly ranks high in safest countries for LGBT individuals studies which makes me pretty damn happy.

As a kid I always had this picture in my head of it as a place where all women covered their heads (google ghonnella for what I consider to be the most impractical religious head covering, it's like someone went "Okay, we want women to cover themselves, but what if we made it as wide as a doorway?") and everyone is super Catholic and modest, due to Nanna and Nannu's stories.
Then I grew up and realised it's a Mediterranean island with a lot of people in tiny swimwear and one of the safest countries in the world for LGBT travel.

Yep I know of one person who was essentially 'kicked out' of Malta by their parish priest for behavioural issues. Post WW2 Malta is apparently a very very different place to pre-war.

#35 Cimbom

Posted 28 December 2019 - 07:29 AM

View Postannodam, on 28 December 2019 - 12:09 AM, said:


Then, came the best bit, after dad passed away, I did a DNA Test & it came back as 78% Bulgarian Gypsy, 20% Turk & 2% Albanian, hahahaha!
I'm actually loving it, so my origins aren't even Greek but the best part is actually telling my staunch reloes we have Turkish blood, hahahahaha!!!
I have nearly started WWIII with those d*ckheads!


How funny - that’s gold! I can imagine the reactions :lol:

#36 Hollycoddle

Posted 28 December 2019 - 08:40 AM

View PostImperatorFuriosa, on 27 December 2019 - 07:45 PM, said:



Wow, you typed actually typed "wog" in a sentence and posted it.

She may well be one, which makes it OK.

#37 cstar

Posted 28 December 2019 - 09:13 AM

View Postannodam, on 28 December 2019 - 12:09 AM, said:

And the issue with that is what exactly?
I type wog all the time.

My folks were the same as well (dad mostly) he busted our ear drums about Greece as youngsters.  On & on it went until they finally went back & actually saw what a sh*thole that place really is.  They felt like foreigners & when a lady at the shops one time said to mum, you're not from here, you're either from Canada or Australia, I remember laughing my bloody head off!  
What an eye opener!
They then realised why they emigrated to AU in the first place.
My folks migrated in the 60s, dad went back a few times, mum only twice, she didn't actually want to go back the second time & dad kinda persuaded her.
Soon as she set foot on AU soil, she told him in no uncertain terms she will never leave AU again!
And I don't blame her!

Then, came the best bit, after dad passed away, I did a DNA Test & it came back as 78% Bulgarian Gypsy, 20% Turk & 2% Albanian, hahahaha!
I'm actually loving it, so my origins aren't even Greek but the best part is actually telling my staunch reloes we have Turkish blood, hahahahaha!!!
I have nearly started WWIII with those d*ckheads!


EFS:


Wow I find this post so disheartening, rude and disrespectful.

You think its funny to tell your greek relatives that they have turkish blood in them after what the Turks did them is disgusting.

P.S. Greece is not a sh*thole, when was the last time you spent anytime there?

#38 Trevor Trove

Posted 28 December 2019 - 09:27 AM

Quote

Then, came the

best

bit, after dad passed away, I did a DNA Test & it came back as 78% Bulgarian Gypsy, 20% Turk & 2% Albanian, hahahaha!



OMG!

Have you checked the website to see if they have re-calibrated the results? Mine were whacko - then a year later they were 'corrected' as they had more DNA data groups to work with.

#39 Ollie83

Posted 28 December 2019 - 10:46 AM

Maybe slightly different but my grandparents and their young family immigrated to Australia from the Netherlands in the very late 50’s. They didn’t return until the 90’s. While they made huge efforts to assimilate into the Australian lifestyle it was natural to miss home and your culture. I think they were romanticising their memories of their home land. Once back there they were horrified and couldn’t wait to get back to Australia.

#40 Expelliarmus

Posted 28 December 2019 - 11:32 AM

View PostAutumn Tones, on 27 December 2019 - 07:03 PM, said:

Did anyone grow up with conservative immigrant parents who staunchly held onto old fashioned beliefs and somewhat outdated values, only to return to their native country years later to find that the country they left behind had progressed and moved on?

For example growing up my parents always made disparaging remarks about girls wearing shorts or dresses, playing sport or going out.
They would comment "girls back home would never behave like that!"
They returned to their country of origin nearly two decade later, and much to their shock, the conservative girls they had envisioned were now running around in short dresses, living with partners without being married, playing soccer and hanging out during ungodly hours.

Has anyone had similar experiences?
Not with English heritage, no. I’m guessing because Australia is ‘like’ England in many ways and the reasons for emigrating from the UK weren’t the same as the reasons for emigrating from other parts of Europe or from other regions.



#41 annodam

Posted 28 December 2019 - 11:35 AM

View Postcstar, on 28 December 2019 - 09:13 AM, said:

Wow I find this post so disheartening, rude and disrespectful.

You think its funny to tell your greek relatives that they have turkish blood in them after what the Turks did them is disgusting.

P.S. Greece is not a sh*thole, when was the last time you spent anytime there?



But according to my DNA though, I'm not Greek, so I have no issues with telling them my results.  If they want to do a DNA test to prove what they are, they're free to do so.  But they're just too chicken sh*t to pay money & then have to find out they in fact do have Turkish blood!
I would hazard a guess to say most Greeks do in fact have a small portion of Turkish blood down their lines anyway if you dig so far back.
After all, how many years did Turkey occupy Greece for, nearly 500yrs wasn't it?  So back in those days given people didn't live as long as they do now, we're talking probably 7, 8 generations.

I really couldn't GAF anyway, I'm born here & so are my kids.  My OHs DNA has him as 90% Slavic & the other 10% Baltic (I think).  His relations were told by the Greeks they must change their name to a Greek one otherwise they'd be killed, so apart from a lengthy fake-ish Greek name which was forced upon my OHs relatives, there is no Greek in us anywhere.  
I classify myself as an Aussie anyway, my Birth Certificate says I'm Aussie & so does my Passport.


Good country Australia!

#42 cstar

Posted 28 December 2019 - 11:46 AM

I'm Australian too, my parents were born in Greece, they are greek, no matter what DNA tests they do, they are greek, they are proud as I'm sure your relatives are too.  You telling them they might have turkish blood in them to upset them is just mean, you think they don't know they would have turkish blood in them, of course they do, but that's only because of what the turks did to them.

#43 seayork2002

Posted 28 December 2019 - 11:57 AM

View Postcstar, on 28 December 2019 - 11:46 AM, said:

I'm Australian too, my parents were born in Greece, they are greek, no matter what DNA tests they do, they are greek, they are proud as I'm sure your relatives are too.  You telling them they might have turkish blood in them to upset them is just mean, you think they don't know they would have turkish blood in them, of course they do, but that's only because of what the turks did to them.

Agreed
My grandfather was born in Greece to a very very long line into the Greek church  my grandmother in Australia to a greek father and Irish mother, there may be Greek, Irish, Aussie, Uranus, Pluto and mars in there who knows, and any other thing going back but it is what people identify with

#44 Cimbom

Posted 28 December 2019 - 12:01 PM

View Postcstar, on 28 December 2019 - 11:46 AM, said:

I'm Australian too, my parents were born in Greece, they are greek, no matter what DNA tests they do, they are greek, they are proud as I'm sure your relatives are too.  You telling them they might have turkish blood in them to upset them is just mean, you think they don't know they would have turkish blood in them, of course they do, but that's only because of what the turks did to them.

I didn’t read it in a mean way but maybe that’s just my interpretation. To me it’s more of a statement against nationalism more than anything else :shrug:

#45 ImperatorFuriosa

Posted 28 December 2019 - 12:18 PM

View PostHollycoddle, on 28 December 2019 - 08:40 AM, said:

She may well be one, which makes it OK.

No, it's not ok.

#46 ImperatorFuriosa

Posted 28 December 2019 - 12:20 PM

View Postannodam, on 28 December 2019 - 12:09 AM, said:

And the issue with that is what exactly?
I type wog all the time.

*facepalm

#47 CallMeFeral

Posted 28 December 2019 - 12:29 PM

View PostImperatorFuriosa, on 28 December 2019 - 12:18 PM, said:

No, it's not ok.

:laugh:

The oracle has spoken?

You might have to provide some backing for this claim, I'm not sure simply stating it is as persuasive as you seem to think it is.

I believe it's generally accepted that members of a group are allowed to use the terms for themselves that would be considered offensive if they were being used by a dominant group to denigrate them.

If you are simply stating that you yourself still feel offended by it, then fair enough, that is your business, but doesn't make it objective fact as to whether it's ok or not.

#48 Oriental lily

Posted 28 December 2019 - 12:37 PM

Yeah I thought the 90s shows ‘wogs out of work and ‘acropolis now’ kinda put ‘wog’ as an offensive term to bed if used as a descriptive word by those who identify as one . The same as the p**f for homosexuals and N for African Americans . It takes the power of that words away if owned by the minority group .

#49 ipsee

Posted 28 December 2019 - 12:37 PM

Wog is a term that used to be kind of friendly in Melbourne where there are a lot of italian and greek residents.

It isn't really the same as other offensive terms for indigenous or Asian people, that I don't want to type out.

I can' see why people wouldn't use such a term, but it isn't intended as insulting or mean.

Eg

https://en.wikipedia...ogs_Out_of_Work

Edited by ipsee, 28 December 2019 - 12:38 PM.


#50 LadyGreyTea

Posted 28 December 2019 - 12:41 PM

Several years ago my parents listened to SBS Radio (the Vietnamese hour) and a distraught lady called up the talk show hosts to complain that her 26 year old son wanted to sleep with his girlfriend at a hotel, because she refused to allow him and his girlfriend to sleep in her house.
Basically she didn't tolerate the notion of them getting it on before marriage
The talk show hosts and a few people in the Vietnamese community called in to tell her to stop being unreasonable and that she was a only making the situation more complicated for herself.

The general consensus was that although she was free to lay down the rules in her own home, her son was now a fully grown adult and it was unrealistic to expect anyone to wait until marriage at this day and age.

(Very few people in my community get married in their early 20s nowadays)

Edited by LadyGreyTea, 28 December 2019 - 12:43 PM.





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