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Advice on Mr Two's temper tantrums - hitting, biting self & others


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#1 SkyFluff

Posted 30 December 2019 - 08:55 AM

Little Mr 2 has always gotten frustrated quickly and resorted to hitting & sometimes biting. Ever since he could move his arms & become frustrated he's been a hitter.

He is a non verbal communicator (we've been seeing a speech pathologist since around 18 months)  due to his lack of speech development, we've seen paediatricians and audiologist & had all the tests done, hearing is fine, paed wasn't worried about autism or anything like that. They just suspect he's a late bloomer & extremely stubbon in his personality, he's shockingly independent (although can't do everything) and quite fussy. At this point they aren't suggesting early intervention (he's just turned two) and has a complex number of sounds & can make sounds for letters that don't usually appear until 3 (although he doesnt make words with those sounds). He has a full understanding of a lot of things & can follow more complex tasks.

Due to his lack of communication we often don't understand exactly what he wants us to do (as his wants are also be coming more complex). This results in him squealing & going "ArGHHHHHH" really loudly and then going in for a hit, whether it's me or my partner. If he sees it as our fault he'll hit us.

If he's trying to do something & fails he'll then take that frustration out on himself & resort to hitting himself on the head or biting his own arm or in extreme circumstances hitting his own head onto the floor.

Currently we've been doing time outs, where when he hits we tell him "no hitting" and move him to time out for 2 minutes. While he doesn't kick up a fuss in time out (he just stands there quietly until time is up) & then we do an apology & hugs and kisses & he goes back to playing.

This however hasn't stopped him from actually hitting others.

When he starts hitting his own head on things (walls, floors etc), we tried the "hat" technique where we didn't make a fuss over it, just put a soft woolen hat on his head so he wouldn't hurt himself.

However, this also doesn't deter him or stop him from hitting himself or hitting his own head on objects.

Any other suggestions on how to stop him from these behaviors? It's obvious he's frustrated & mad that he can't do something or we've not done what he's wanted. I'm out of ideas..

Anyone else dealt with slmething similar?

#2 Living Type

Posted 30 December 2019 - 09:01 AM

Baby sign could be useful, take a look Hanen it takes two to talk or maybe even some picture cards so he can show you what he needs/wants. What is the speech therapist doing to help? I would less concerned about what sounds he can and can’t make at this age but more about giving him ways to communicate

#3 *Spikey*

Posted 30 December 2019 - 09:03 AM

Baby sign language might be an interim step that will help with communication?

#4 SkyFluff

Posted 30 December 2019 - 09:27 AM

View PostLiving Type, on 30 December 2019 - 09:01 AM, said:

Baby sign could be useful, take a look Hanen it takes two to talk or maybe even some picture cards so he can show you what he needs/wants. What is the speech therapist doing to help? I would less concerned about what sounds he can and can’t make at this age but more about giving him ways to communicate

At this point not much to be honest! We've seen her 3 times since 18 months & it's mostly the same stuff. She says we should encourage him to say what he wants.

For example, he wants some juice, he'll point to the juice and make a sound, so she told us to say "juice" to encourage him to name things, but when we say juice he says "yes" or "yeah", which then (as she told us) we have to acknowledge his communication & respond (in this example give him some juice) and then follow by saying things like "oh juice! Yummy!" in which he says "yes!"

I'm interested in sign language, how does that work and how can I learn it/teach it?

#5 MsLaurie

Posted 30 December 2019 - 09:51 AM

Try looking up “key word sign auslan” - there are some apps that can help you learn. It’s a set of fairly common/useful words/concepts, and you basically start doing the sign as you say the word, so the two modes of communication are being used together.

#6 Fossy

Posted 30 December 2019 - 09:58 AM

At his age I’d be looking into more frequent speech therapy, 3 sessions in ?6 months is not nearly enough for what he needs.  Early intervention is deemed so important.  my daughter was a late talker and by 2 she was doing speech therapy every week, it had amazing results.
Learning signs may be a good interim measure but he sounds extremely frustrated so I’d be focusing on getting the best results for improving his speech ASAP.
Good luck, I know how hard it can be watching them struggle.



#7 José

Posted 30 December 2019 - 10:00 AM

View PostSkyFluff, on 30 December 2019 - 08:55 AM, said:

They just suspect he's a late bloomer

. At this point they aren't suggesting early intervention

That seems unhelpful.
I would think early intervention for a late bloomer would be entirely  appropriate.
I think I would seek out a new speech therapist and get some regular therapy happening. I think the pp recommendation of taken is a good one.

I think I would also see a psycgologist.  They could help quantify the extent of any developmental delays and also support you with strategies.

I'm a big fan of  Dan Siegel and Tina Payne Bryson. They have some great books including the whole brain child.



#8 SkyFluff

Posted 30 December 2019 - 10:16 AM

View PostFossy, on 30 December 2019 - 09:58 AM, said:

At his age I’d be looking into more frequent speech therapy, 3 sessions in ?6 months is not nearly enough for what he needs.  Early intervention is deemed so important.  my daughter was a late talker and by 2 she was doing speech therapy every week, it had amazing results.
Learning signs may be a good interim measure but he sounds extremely frustrated so I’d be focusing on getting the best results for improving his speech ASAP.
Good luck, I know how hard it can be watching them struggle.
He's having a health check with the nurse in early Jan. Our speech pathologist is about 50 minutes drive, I plan to raise this with the nurse to see if we can get him into early intervention closer to home.
I think I'll give the sign language a go along with regular language & hope it improves.

#9 Jingleflea

Posted 30 December 2019 - 10:17 AM

At 2.5 DD was going every 2 weeks to speech therapy and we had stuff to practice at home with her.

It's all well and good to say you should encourage him to say what he wants, but if he CAN'T actually SAY it then it's kinda useless and he'll get frustrated.

Does he eat well, did he struggle with feeding, possibly having a lip or tongue tie?

#10 Heather11

Posted 30 December 2019 - 10:25 AM

Just a query as to whether the paediatrician you saw was a developmental paediatrician or a general paediatrician?

While what the SP has advised is correct you also need to provide the child with a way to communicate his needs.  Is the SP aware that his main frustration comes from his difficulty with being able to communicate?  

I would be getting onto the early intervention.

#11 SkyFluff

Posted 30 December 2019 - 10:30 AM

View PostJingleflea, on 30 December 2019 - 10:17 AM, said:

At 2.5 DD was going every 2 weeks to speech therapy and we had stuff to practice at home with her.

It's all well and good to say you should encourage him to say what he wants, but if he CAN'T actually SAY it then it's kinda useless and he'll get frustrated.

Does he eat well, did he struggle with feeding, possibly having a lip or tongue tie?

They thought he had a minor one, but it wasnt causing a problem & he's been cleared of any issues. He was fully breastfed and had no latch issues at all. He still breastfeeds twice a day. He had trouble taking to solids & was on purees a lot longer than desired as he had such trouble, mainly with gag.

He's a very fussy eater still and very in insistent with his eating. For example he loved rice & we would make a really yummy vege rice & he loved it. Then randomly wouldn't eat it again. He use to love mango's and now won't eat them. Similar thing with pasta.

He's very good at sounds. "moos", baas etc etc. But when he comes to words he tries but usually picks up a part of the word only. E. G for "fish" he'll go "Ffff". And for "water" he'll say "aHH".


#12 SkyFluff

Posted 30 December 2019 - 10:41 AM

View PostHeather11, on 30 December 2019 - 10:25 AM, said:

Just a query as to whether the paediatrician you saw was a developmental paediatrician or a general paediatrician?

While what the SP has advised is correct you also need to provide the child with a way to communicate his needs.  Is the SP aware that his main frustration comes from his difficulty with being able to communicate?  

I would be getting onto the early intervention.

I believe the paed was just a general one. The SP is aware, the last time we saw her was about September (the appointment has been moved/cancled twice by the SP, he's not booked into see her again till Feb), and in Sept he wasn't quite as frustrated. His frustration has peaked in the last about 4 weeks to an all time high. Mainly when playing. He doesn't get very frustrated over needs (food water etc) as we have a routine & timed meals etc. & often when he wants a snack he'll take my hand and take me to the fridge and point to the snack he wants.

I'll speak to the health nurse in early Jan & see if we can organise another speech pathologist sooner and close by..

#13 ~Jolly_F~

Posted 30 December 2019 - 10:55 AM

I think you need a second opinion from a different paed - preferably one that specialises in development.

Telling you no early intervention is needed is quite frankly crap when your child is struggling to have his needs met because he can’t communicate.

My daughter had similar behaviours to what you are describing and wad diagnosed with ASD at 8. We were dismissed over and over because of age and that she was just stubborn and a late developer. They said we didn’t need intervention. Because of this we missed out on significant intervention at a critical time in our child’s life.

#14 HolierThanCow

Posted 30 December 2019 - 11:07 AM

That sounds a bit extreme, OP, and very hard to manage. My niece was a late talker (No words until just over 2, then full sentences by 2.5), and my SIL used basic auslan from about 18 months because of the extreme frustration. She wasn't a hitter or biter, just an extreme whinger.

I think if it's a problem for you and him,à that makes it a problem regardless of the reason for the late development. I'd really be considering a second opinion as it doesn't sound like they're being very helpful.

#15 blimkybill

Posted 30 December 2019 - 11:13 AM

I agree with others your child needs more intervention than they are getting. Your SP not seeing him from September to February is not good and is more a signal of her availability than his needs.
Whichever speech pathologist you end up asking will need to teach an alternate interim means of communication as well as promoting his speech, whether that's sign or picture boards.
You can seek NDIS funding to pay for more regular support,  as regular intervention is expensive. NDIS requires children to have significant delays in more than one domain.  Your child's primary problem appears to be speech, but at this point in time his social and emotional development are also impacted.
I would
1. Make contact with your local NDIS early childhood partner as ask for an appointment
2. When you see your MCHN, ask if they can do any kind of checklist or assessment to give some data to indicate where his development is struggling. Tell her you are thinking of applying for NDIS;she may know what sort of information you need.
3. If you can afford it,  consult with a child psychologist for strategies to use with your child, and also look out for a developmental paediatrician and try and get an appointment.

#16 blimkybill

Posted 30 December 2019 - 11:15 AM

I also wanted to add 2 things:

I am always suspicious when problems are written off as a stubborn child. Stubbornness is not a cause of late speech! Nearly always there is something else going on.

If you don't know who your local NDIS early intervention partner is, tell us roughly where you live, someone will know.

#17 Heather11

Posted 30 December 2019 - 11:28 AM

View Postblimkybill, on 30 December 2019 - 11:13 AM, said:

I agree with others your child needs more intervention than they are getting. Your SP not seeing him from September to February is not good and is more a signal of her availability than his needs.
Whichever speech pathologist you end up asking will need to teach an alternate interim means of communication as well as promoting his speech, whether that's sign or picture boards.
You can seek NDIS funding to pay for more regular support,  as regular intervention is expensive. NDIS requires children to have significant delays in more than one domain.  Your child's primary problem appears to be speech, but at this point in time his social and emotional development are also impacted.
I would
1. Make contact with your local NDIS early childhood partner as ask for an appointment
2. When you see your MCHN, ask if they can do any kind of checklist or assessment to give some data to indicate where his development is struggling. Tell her you are thinking of applying for NDIS;she may know what sort of information you need.
3. If you can afford it,  consult with a child psychologist for strategies to use with your child, and also look out for a developmental paediatrician and try and get an appointment.

All excellent advice.

I assume that the infrequent ST is due to it being through the public system???

OP do you have the means to fund private ST?  Even in the short term until NDIS may possibly kick in.  I believe you no longer need a formal diagnosis to access Early intervention.

You can self refer to a private ST.  You don't necessarily need to wait till you see your health nurse.

#18 SkyFluff

Posted 30 December 2019 - 11:43 AM

View Postblimkybill, on 30 December 2019 - 11:13 AM, said:

I agree with others your child needs more intervention than they are getting. Your SP not seeing him from September to February is not good and is more a signal of her availability than his needs.
Whichever speech pathologist you end up asking will need to teach an alternate interim means of communication as well as promoting his speech, whether that's sign or picture boards.
You can seek NDIS funding to pay for more regular support,  as regular intervention is expensive. NDIS requires children to have significant delays in more than one domain.  Your child's primary problem appears to be speech, but at this point in time his social and emotional development are also impacted.
I would
1. Make contact with your local NDIS early childhood partner as ask for an appointment
2. When you see your MCHN, ask if they can do any kind of checklist or assessment to give some data to indicate where his development is struggling. Tell her you are thinking of applying for NDIS;she may know what sort of information you need.
3. If you can afford it,  consult with a child psychologist for strategies to use with your child, and also look out for a developmental paediatrician and try and get an appointment.

I agree. It was a availability issue, the first time she cancled was because she had training that day then the 2nd time (was originally Oct, was moved to December) she was on leave and had to move it till February 11 as she was on a few weeks Leave then was fully booked till Feb.

He's booked in for the blue book checkup on the 5th Jan. I plan on asking the nurse there to book is in to see a SP at our local centre. The other one is 50 minutes away & the wait time is horrid. I'm worried even if we get him booked in for our local clinic, it'll be a few months wait :(

I don't think NDIS will be helpful as he hasn't been diagnosed with anything & so far everyone has said he is normal (minus the not talking).
Do NDIS do the assessments on the children themselves? Or am I better asking the health nurse to refer us to a development paediatrician for a proper assessment?

#19 Heather11

Posted 30 December 2019 - 11:52 AM

Different States may have different process but in SA the NDIS do not do assessments. You need to supply them with the reports.

Did you current ST do any kind of assessment when she took on your DS?

Taken from the NDIS https://www.ndis.gov...on-requirements

Quote

9.2 Developmental delay (early intervention in early childhood)

9.2.1 Requirements for children with developmental delay

Access to the NDIS under the early intervention requirements is also open to children under 6 years of age with a developmental delay (section 25(1)(a)(iii)).

Generally, developmental delay is a term used when a child is slower to reach, or has not reached age-appropriate developmental milestones.

For the purposes of the NDIS Act, developmental delay means a delay in the development of a child under six years of age that meets all of the following criteria:
  • is attributable to a mental or physical impairment or a combination of mental and physical impairments; and
  • results in substantial reduction in functional capacity in one or more of the following areas of major life activity:

i. self care;

ii. receptive and expressive language;

iii. cognitive development;

iv. motor development; and
  • results in the need for a combination and sequence of special interdisciplinary or generic care, treatment or other services that are of extended duration and are individually planned and coordinated (section 9).

Note, 'receptive and expressive language' is considered to be a singular area of major life activity. Therefore, a prospective participant will not need to specifically demonstrate a substantial reduction in functional capacity for both receptive and expressive language. A substantial reduction in functional capacity for either receptive or expressive language will suffice.

'Expressive language' is taken to include articulation and speech pronunciation.


#20 SkyFluff

Posted 30 December 2019 - 11:53 AM

View PostHeather11, on 30 December 2019 - 11:28 AM, said:



All excellent advice.

I assume that the infrequent ST is due to it being through the public system???

OP do you have the means to fund private ST?  Even in the short term until NDIS may possibly kick in.  I believe you no longer need a formal diagnosis to access Early intervention.

You can self refer to a private ST.  You don't necessarily need to wait till you see your health nurse.

We've been going through the public system. Our financial situation doesn't allow private, hubs is the only income earner and I care full-time for my disabled father. We have a green health care card though.

#21 ~Jolly_F~

Posted 30 December 2019 - 11:55 AM

NDIS provides funding for children under 7 without a diagnosis. It’s just to help with early intervention. They will be able to help you access services.

Personally I would be seeing a GP for a referral to a dev paed, not the health nurse.

#22 José

Posted 30 December 2019 - 11:59 AM

View PostSkyFluff, on 30 December 2019 - 11:43 AM, said:



He's booked in for the blue book checkup on the 5th Jan. I plan on asking the nurse there to book is in to see a SP at our local centre. The other one is 50 minutes away & the wait time is horrid. I'm worried even if we get him booked in for our local clinic, it'll be a few months wait :(

I don't think NDIS will be helpful as he hasn't been diagnosed with anything & so far everyone has said he is normal (minus the not talking).
Do NDIS do the assessments on the children themselves? Or am I better asking the health nurse to refer us to a development paediatrician for a proper assessment?
  

In my area a nurse could recommend speech therapy but can't make the booking. The parent/ legal guardian  needs to call up themselves and do that.

As above you don't need a diagnosis to access the ECEI stream of NDIS, just delays in two or more areas.
As a PP has pointed out the language delay is one right there.  And.this is having an impact on social/ emotional development..So there you go, delays in more than one area.
NDIS is a scheme. It has employees who assist you to navigate the scheme but these employees have minimal qualifications and aren't there to conduct assessments. (Although the info you provide.from your clinicians will be assessed and the plannimg meeting can feel like a bit of an assessment, but its an assessment against NDIS guidelines)
NDIS don't cover paediatric appointments.
You need a GP referral to a paed as per medicare requirements.
I'd also be seeing a psychologist.  
Good luck!

#23 José

Posted 30 December 2019 - 12:00 PM

View PostSkyFluff, on 30 December 2019 - 11:53 AM, said:



We've been going through the public system. Our financial situation doesn't allow private, hubs is the only income earner and I care full-time for my disabled father. We have a green health care card though.

In that case you really need to get the ball rolling with NDIS.
How can it help? It can help with the cost of therapy that your child   needs.

#24 Jingleflea

Posted 30 December 2019 - 12:15 PM

The SP Dd saw was through the public system(in the ACT) and we saw her every 2 weeks.

#25 SkyFluff

Posted 30 December 2019 - 12:18 PM

I've got a doctors appointment for my GP booked, I'll have a chat to her and see if she can refer me to the paediatric specialist who can assess him & his speech and let us know where to go from there.

Thanks everyone for your help. I'll definitely do the sign language along side using regular language. One of his main frustrations is trying to "do it all himself" even when he can't & not being able to ask for help (when he needs it) and then getting frustrated at us when we try to help.
If we help he gets frustrated and hits us. If we don't help he gets frustrated & struggles and his himself.




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