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Advice on Mr Two's temper tantrums - hitting, biting self & others


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#26 literally nobody

Posted 30 December 2019 - 12:22 PM

Id definitely get a second opinion op, my youngest was quite similar  and it got worse not better. He was diagnosed ASD at age 6.

#27 SkyFluff

Posted 30 December 2019 - 12:30 PM

View Postliterally nobody, on 30 December 2019 - 12:22 PM, said:

Id definitely get a second opinion op, my youngest was quite similar  and it got worse not better. He was diagnosed ASD at age 6.
Definitely am. I'm going go see my GP & get a referral for a paed & I'll also get him to a different SP closer to home (so it will be a different one)

#28 blimkybill

Posted 30 December 2019 - 12:40 PM

View PostSkyFluff, on 30 December 2019 - 11:43 AM, said:




I don't think NDIS will be helpful as he hasn't been diagnosed with anything & so far everyone has said he is normal (minus the not talking).
Do NDIS do the assessments on the children themselves? Or am I better asking the health nurse to refer us to a development paediatrician for a proper assessment?
Yes NDIS will be helpful. No diagnosis is needed for children under 7. The whole point of early intervention (including via NDIS) is to get help early to try and not need help later. Many children getting early intervention help do not go on to have a disability diagnosis.  
NDIS don't do any assessments but they rely on the information you can bring. This information does not have to be exhaustive and does not have to come from a doctor.  It could be a report or letter from his speech therapist, plus a checklist (from the MCHN or a doctor or a psychologist) showing how he is struggling emotionally,  socially and behaviourally. Plus your observations.  That's all you need. Please do make the approach. If you don't have a report from the speech pathologist maybe email her and ask for one.

#29 SkyFluff

Posted 30 December 2019 - 12:42 PM

View Postblimkybill, on 30 December 2019 - 12:40 PM, said:


Yes NDIS will be helpful. No diagnosis is needed for children under 7. The whole point of early intervention (including via NDIS) is to get help early to try and not need help later. Many children getting early intervention help do not go on to have a disability diagnosis.  
NDIS don't do any assessments but they rely on the information you can bring. This information does not have to be exhaustive and does not have to come from a doctor.  It could be a report or letter from his speech therapist, plus a checklist (from the MCHN or a doctor or a psychologist) showing how he is struggling emotionally,  socially and behaviourally. Plus your observations.  That's all you need. Please do make the approach. If you don't have a report from the speech pathologist maybe email her and ask for one.

Will definitely look into it. I haven't been given any report from the SP. I might have to call her up and ask for it. I'm also going to get him into another SP & see if they can do a report/assessment and I'll grab a copy of that too.

#30 newmumandexcited

Posted 30 December 2019 - 01:12 PM

Being stubborn and not talking? That doesn’t seem to fit. Anecdotally, the most stubborn of my three sons needed to talk most immediately to have every one of his tiny concerns voiced all the time. I’m no expert of course.

I think like others that it’s worthwhile going further. Is speech the only concern you’ve ever had?

Edited by newmumandexcited, 30 December 2019 - 01:18 PM.


#31 SkyFluff

Posted 30 December 2019 - 01:56 PM

View Postnewmumandexcited, on 30 December 2019 - 01:12 PM, said:

Being stubborn and not talking? That doesn’t seem to fit. Anecdotally, the most stubborn of my three sons needed to talk most immediately to have every one of his tiny concerns voiced all the time. I’m no expert of course.

I think like others that it’s worthwhile going further. Is speech the only concern you’ve ever had?
Yes, that and that he is a very fussy eater. Doesn't like very much & refuses to try anything. He'd happily go hungry & throw a tantrum rather than eat something he doesn't know he likes.

#32 Chaotic Pogo

Posted 30 December 2019 - 02:08 PM

SkyFluff the more information you give the more concerned I am about the push back you have been getting from professionals.

If you tell your general area people will be happy to recommend a good developmental paed (important its not a regular paed, important it’s a good one).
NDIS funding can certainly cover eg private weekly speech appointments.

#33 newmumandexcited

Posted 30 December 2019 - 02:10 PM

View PostSkyFluff, on 30 December 2019 - 01:56 PM, said:


Yes, that and that he is a very fussy eater. Doesn't like very much & refuses to try anything. He'd happily go hungry & throw a tantrum rather than eat something he doesn't know he likes.

Hmm I don’t really know if that’s a big deal - my five year old is so fussy with food and won’t try anything. He’s been like that for years whereas my middle will eat anything.

All the best op, hope you get some further assistance x

#34 SkyFluff

Posted 30 December 2019 - 02:25 PM

View PostChaotic Pogo, on 30 December 2019 - 02:08 PM, said:

SkyFluff the more information you give the more concerned I am about the push back you have been getting from professionals.

If you tell your general area people will be happy to recommend a good developmental paed (important its not a regular paed, important it’s a good one).
NDIS funding can certainly cover eg private weekly speech appointments.

Yes, I never really thought too much of it. Like I said we started seeing the SP when son was 18months. First time we just assumed she was doing an assessment. She didn't seem too worried, told us to exaggerate more & that's pretty much it.  Figured at 18months there wasn't much they could do because he was so young.

Then the next visit we did a small play session & she asked if he had said anything new (He had started saying mum  & yes and a few other sounds).

3rd visit she gave us a hand out which was like a educators check list. She said he was quick to learn and picked up new things fast but just needed more encouragement speaking and to give it another month & she'll see how he's progressing.

That was the Oct appointment which was cancled and moved to mid December. Which was then cancled again because SP was on a few weeks leave & rescheduled to early Feb.

I did ring the intake line for SP, they said I'd have to be put on a waiting list for DS & it would be a transfer from the clinic 50mins away to the one that is about 15mins away.

I'm located on the central coast of NSW if anyone can give recommendations :)

#35 MsLaurie

Posted 30 December 2019 - 03:13 PM

How does your son go with his peers? Does he play well with other kids or tend to fly solo?
Is he in daycare or similar? Reports from daycare noting issues are also quite persuasive with NDIS, especially at this early age.

#36 SkyFluff

Posted 30 December 2019 - 04:00 PM

View PostMsLaurie, on 30 December 2019 - 03:13 PM, said:

How does your son go with his peers? Does he play well with other kids or tend to fly solo?
Is he in daycare or similar? Reports from daycare noting issues are also quite persuasive with NDIS, especially at this early age.

He isn't in daycare right now (I don't think it's even something we can afford at this point!). We do go to a lot of play centers and the likes. When he's there he prefers to play with me and is a bit more of a show off when there's others around (he'll want to be more independent & go down the slides and stuff himself). He doesn't really interact with other kids he'll watch them but I think he thinks/acts like they're separate from him (as in he sees them as babies but doesn't see himself that way) it's hard to explain.

He definitely doesn't like strangers (if another adult says hello or something & I'm not within arms reach he'll run to find me and hold my hand) but if I'm talking to someone & then end the conversation he will be friendly and wave bye to them.

Sometimes he'll follow other kids, not to play with them but to see what they're doing and how they're playing, but not to interact with them. In one situation he ran up to a little girl who was about 4 and was playing with the ball and he was trying to get the ball from her & I explained how he couldn't take the ball because the little girl has it first, and the little girl (who was much older) grabbed another ball and gave it to him. It's just small things like this.

He played alongside another kid in the ball pool but they weren't interacting, both doing their own thing and looking over at each other to see.

If this is what you mean by his interactions with his peers. He is only 2 (almost 25 months to be exact), so I don't expect him to have a proper play with other kiddies yet.

Edited by SkyFluff, 30 December 2019 - 04:20 PM.


#37 afterlaughter

Posted 30 December 2019 - 04:18 PM

Check out Janet Lansburys web page. Lots of articles on similar topics with great insights.

#38 newmumandexcited

Posted 30 December 2019 - 05:21 PM

View PostSkyFluff, on 30 December 2019 - 04:00 PM, said:



He isn't in daycare right now (I don't think it's even something we can afford at this point!). We do go to a lot of play centers and the likes. When he's there he prefers to play with me and is a bit more of a show off when there's others around (he'll want to be more independent & go down the slides and stuff himself). He doesn't really interact with other kids he'll watch them but I think he thinks/acts like they're separate from him (as in he sees them as babies but doesn't see himself that way) it's hard to explain.

He definitely doesn't like strangers (if another adult says hello or something & I'm not within arms reach he'll run to find me and hold my hand) but if I'm talking to someone & then end the conversation he will be friendly and wave bye to them.

Sometimes he'll follow other kids, not to play with them but to see what they're doing and how they're playing, but not to interact with them. In one situation he ran up to a little girl who was about 4 and was playing with the ball and he was trying to get the ball from her & I explained how he couldn't take the ball because the little girl has it first, and the little girl (who was much older) grabbed another ball and gave it to him. It's just small things like this.

He played alongside another kid in the ball pool but they weren't interacting, both doing their own thing and looking over at each other to see.

If this is what you mean by his interactions with his peers. He is only 2 (almost 25 months to be exact), so I don't expect him to have a proper play with other kiddies yet.

Does he kind of acknowledge them? Like say point at a toy they have etc? Sort of see them and interact in that kind of way?

I think daycare is great - with a subsidy it might not be an expensive as you think! They share great objective insights..

Edited by newmumandexcited, 30 December 2019 - 05:22 PM.


#39 Charli73

Posted 30 December 2019 - 05:44 PM

Please see a developmental paed about this soon..
My DS was like this at childcare and it got worse not better also..

#40 SkyFluff

Posted 30 December 2019 - 06:10 PM

View Postnewmumandexcited, on 30 December 2019 - 05:21 PM, said:



Does he kind of acknowledge them? Like say point at a toy they have etc? Sort of see them and interact in that kind of way?

I think daycare is great - with a subsidy it might not be an expensive as you think! They share great objective insights..
Yes he will do that and he also will see a little baby boy for example and say "bubba" and point. So he knows they're there & acknowledges them.

#41 SkyFluff

Posted 30 December 2019 - 06:14 PM

View PostCharli73, on 30 December 2019 - 05:44 PM, said:

Please see a developmental paed about this soon..
My DS was like this at childcare and it got worse not better also..
I've got a doctors appt booked for next week & am going to ask for a developmental paed referral to our local PACU unit.

#42 IShallWearMidnight

Posted 30 December 2019 - 06:39 PM

I would definitely suggest more speech therapy.in the mean time I found the following helped my non verbal child (he was 6.5 before he talked and is still situationally mute at 7.5):
Emotion coach : 'you are cross because xyz.'

Key word sign: 'help, stop, calm and more' are our most used signs

Directional language: 'gentle hands' rather than 'dont hit'

#43 José

Posted 30 December 2019 - 06:42 PM

View PostSkyFluff, on 30 December 2019 - 06:14 PM, said:


I've got a doctors appt booked for next week & am going to ask for a developmental paed referral to our local PACU unit.

That's great. In my area the public paed wait list is 12-24 months. Hopefully it's not so long where you are.
It would be worth getting recommendations for someone private as well.

#44 Heather11

Posted 30 December 2019 - 07:12 PM

View PostJosé, on 30 December 2019 - 06:42 PM, said:

That's great. In my area the public paed wait list is 12-24 months. Hopefully it's not so long where you are.
It would be worth getting recommendations for someone private as well.

Ask to go on the cancellation list.  It might mean a call at short notice but beats waiting 12 plus months.

#45 MsLaurie

Posted 30 December 2019 - 07:21 PM

View PostSkyFluff, on 30 December 2019 - 04:00 PM, said:


If this is what you mean by his interactions with his peers. He is only 2 (almost 25 months to be exact), so I don't expect him to have a proper play with other kiddies yet.

Parallel play is totally normal at just two, so don’t worry about that too much :)

Is he aggressive at all with other children, or just you guys when he’s frustrated?

#46 Expelliarmus

Posted 30 December 2019 - 07:34 PM

View PostSkyFluff, on 30 December 2019 - 01:56 PM, said:

Yes, that and that he is a very fussy eater. Doesn't like very much & refuses to try anything. He'd happily go hungry & throw a tantrum rather than eat something he doesn't know he likes.

View Postnewmumandexcited, on 30 December 2019 - 02:10 PM, said:

Hmm I don’t really know if that’s a big deal - my five year old is so fussy with food and won’t try anything. He’s been like that for years whereas my middle will eat anything.

All the best op, hope you get some further assistance x
Yeah. It is a big deal. I second the need for a developmental pead and early intervention. My two year old did this. Not to alarm but it didn’t get better and she does have an eating disorder characterised/associated with by extreme sensory reactions.

#47 FuzzyChocolateToes

Posted 30 December 2019 - 07:53 PM

When you consider the fussy eating in context of speech delay and aggressive behavior, it definitely warrants an assessment by a developmental paediatrician. I'm pleased to hear you will be seeing your GP SkyFluff. Good luck.

#48 Chaotic Pogo

Posted 30 December 2019 - 08:04 PM

Unfortunately it gets harder if you are regional.

The first thing you learn with early intervention is that you cannot rely on the system to look after you, or even refer you to the correct type of therapist or specialist. It all falls on the parents, to work out what to do, and to make it actually happen.

You have the advantage of being the expert in your child, but limited experience in exactly what is developmentally usual at various ages. EB is invaluable for ideas and suggestions.

A screening assessment tool that includes videos of ‘usual’ kids and ASD kids is   http://asdetect.org/

It  was created by LaTrobe University. This could help you consider any ASD flags compared to a usual kid. It helps you know what to look for.

If it doesn’t seem like your child, you should still be getting a dev paed assessment but start looking into any other relevant things while you wait to see them. The more general understanding of things you have, the better spent your time with the dev paed will be.

BTW, having seen a speech therapist, I would assume your child has had a hearing test? It’s the first thing dev paeds ask for but you don’t require a referral to get one and it’s good to have before you go to the appointment.

Edited by Chaotic Pogo, 30 December 2019 - 08:07 PM.


#49 PrincessPeach

Posted 30 December 2019 - 08:18 PM

View PostJosé, on 30 December 2019 - 06:42 PM, said:



That's great. In my area the public paed wait list is 12-24 months. Hopefully it's not so long where you are.
It would be worth getting recommendations for someone private as well.

It's 3-5 years for the gold coast without a diagnosis.

My eldest is speech delayed (verbal apraxia) & initially our speech therapist had us doing makaton signs with him, they were super helpful for the short term until he learnt how to say the sound.

NDIS early intervention is really hard to get for speech issues alone, you also need to show a serious delay in other areas - so dont just rely on the speech not being there. We were knocked back from it & that was with a diagnosis.

But I'd certainly get a different speech therapist, the issues with gagging & then speech sounds very similar to characteristics of oral apraxia.

#50 SkyFluff

Posted 30 December 2019 - 08:50 PM

View PostMsLaurie, on 30 December 2019 - 07:21 PM, said:



Parallel play is totally normal at just two, so don’t worry about that too much :)

Is he aggressive at all with other children, or just you guys when he’s frustrated?

Never others. Only ever my partner & myself & my mother (his grandma). He definitely bites my mother more than my partner and myself, but he'll hit me and my mother more than my hubby. Whether that's because DH works full time and therefore less time, or because he's more scared of DH as he has a deeper less playful tone.

But he never hits OR bites others (adults or children) & he never bites or hits  my father (who is disabled & fragile).

He's actually a perfect angel.in public, tantrum are extremely rare (maybe 1 inn every 20 outings), he listens & is very well behaved.




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