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In-laws untrained dog


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#1 ljmcco

Posted 31 December 2019 - 07:20 AM

Hi,
I'm after some advice. DH and I have had a difficult Christmas at his parents house. For the first week, there were 6 of us, me, DH, his parents, and DH and his wife. So far so good.
But, my BIL has a new dog who is also staying. My in-laws are clearly besotted with it, and it has been distressing because the dog barks. And barks. And barks. Not a "there's someone outside" or "I've lost my toy" bark, but the penetrating "I'm not currently being worshipped as I ought to be even though four different people are waving toys at me" bark.
At no point has _anyone_ attempted to quiet the dog. It jumps up on me in the kitchen (I love dogs and don't mind being jumped on, but absolutely not while I'm eating or preparing food). It barks all through meals.
My BIL and SIL have "tried everything" to get it to stop barking during meals, including giving it treats, throwing a toy, stroking it.....i.e. rewarding it for barking during meals.
I have objected to the noise, but was told that the dog won't be put outside or upstairs so I left the room. My attempts to stop it jumping on me have been unsuccessful because no one has ever even spoken harshly to it and so it doesn't know that it is being rebuked. Today my husband was told off by MIL for telling the dog loudly to get down while it jumped on him eating his lunch, apparently this was too mean to the dog.
The dog is untrained, lovely, but I can't trust it.

We've been trying to get pregnant for a long time and my question is: would it be out of line for me to say that I am not happy to have the dog around if and when we do have a baby? I want to lay down in writing well in advance that I am not happy to have this untrained dog near my child, and give them enough time to train the dog. If they choose not to train the dog, I am absolutely ok with that (it is their dog after all), but I will not allow my child to be in the same house with it. I am happy to trust their judgement as to whether it is trained enough, but if it injures my child I will have the dog destroyed.

Is this too nasty on my part? I don't fear for my safety or anything, but the dog is well on its way to being literally spoiled rotten and I can foresee an "it didn't mean to" situation arising very easily.

(Edited to follow the topic. It's been a long week.)

Edited by ljmcco, 31 December 2019 - 07:21 AM.


#2 MsLaurie

Posted 31 December 2019 - 07:30 AM

Leave any future child out of it, that’s just escalating unnecessarily.
But try and talk to whoever is likely to be most receptive about the hazard the dog may cause in future if it stays noisy and doesn’t follow instructions.

#3 doubting thomas

Posted 31 December 2019 - 07:32 AM

Um, I'd put that  firmly in the worry about it later basket.

#4 knottygirl

Posted 31 December 2019 - 07:37 AM

If the dog is constantly barking when they all return to work I’m sure the neighbours will complain.

My dog doesn’t jump but he puts his paw up to get attention. When he does it I say uh uh and turn away from him so my back is to him. I then wait abit and then turn back. If he doesn’t put his paw up then I give him a pat. Took like a day for him to stop doing it to me. Husband thinks it’s cute and so the dog still does it to him but never to me now.

#5 BornToLove

Posted 31 December 2019 - 07:41 AM

Nope. We had similar issues with MIL and her dogs. They were somewhat trained in that she (MIL) was ‘pack leader’ and could control them, but they would not take commands from others including FIL. They have severe aggression issues, to the point where they will literally kill whoever dares knock on the door.

When I was pregnant with DD, we raised the issues and our concerns with the dogs multiple times. It was always brushed off. Then when DD was a few weeks old, there was an incident between two dogs (one of MIL’s and a visiting dog) right in front of me while I was feeding DD. I flipped out and left, DH wasn’t there but I was clear that if DD was to ever return, the dogs had to be shut away in a secure room/area. He was clear that he backed me on the issue and never wavered. He’s normally a pushover with his mum.

I think that incident was the wake up call MIL needed and she agreed to respect our wishes on the matter. DD is almost 10, the dogs are still living and they are still kept separated from DD when we visit.

Edited by BornToLove, 31 December 2019 - 07:42 AM.


#6 José

Posted 31 December 2019 - 07:44 AM

So.its BIL dog and it's been staying with your in-laws, as have you?

How often does this happen, that you all stay together.?
If the dog bugs you can you just stay elsewhere in future?

I would think it's ok to gently point out the benefits of puppy school if the opportunity presents itself.
I wouldn't go talking about babies that haven't been conceived yet.

Is this what you're hoping will happen- you : DH and I are trying to fall pregnant. BIL, your dog needs to be trained. If you don't train your dog we won't visit with our future child.
BIL: sure, ill boom puppy school right away.

Seems unlikely that it would go like that.

#7 born.a.girl

Posted 31 December 2019 - 08:15 AM

As per others, and I know it's difficult, but I wouldn't bring a possible future baby into this, at this stage.

I think I might be making the idle comment here and there 'lucky there are no babies or small children here, they'd get trampled!'.


Also, you don't get to determine whether a dog gets PTS, so do prepare yourself for the fact that if an altercation occurs, it will be up to the relevant authorities to determine if it's seriously enough.

You are obviously free to never be in the same room as the dog, but that may mean not going there.

Edited by born.a.girl, 31 December 2019 - 08:20 AM.


#8 Freddie'sMum

Posted 31 December 2019 - 08:27 AM

I agree with the others about leaving out any talk of possible as yet unconceived babies.

You have a couple of options - don't stay with your in laws when your BIL and the dog is there and / or don't stay with your BIL.

You can't force someone to train their dog.  So remove yourself from the whole situation.

#9 Hollycoddle

Posted 31 December 2019 - 08:29 AM

I wouldn't bother about mentioning a prospective baby, what the dog is doing isn't OK just as things stand now.  I would refuse to visit if the dog is there behaving that way.

#10 Hollycoddle

Posted 31 December 2019 - 08:32 AM

View Postdoubting thomas, on 31 December 2019 - 07:32 AM, said:

Um, I'd put that  firmly in the worry about it later basket.

That's not helpful.  She is not OK with the dog now, she was only going to mention a baby as a way of getting the problem addressed.

Edited by Hollycoddle, 31 December 2019 - 08:46 AM.


#11 WaitForMe

Posted 31 December 2019 - 08:34 AM

How old is it?

I would start with "have you taken it to puppy school/obedience training?".

As I have my own dog I'd probably talk to them about clicker training and these great training videos we used when my dog was a pup - no yelling needed!
https://www.youtube.com/user/kikopup

The closest I'd come to talking about future babies is "I wouldn't want it to hurt a small child".

#12 Lallalla

Posted 31 December 2019 - 08:40 AM

It sounds like the new dog is a grown up? So is it a rescue?

I am sure I read somewhere it takes months for a rescue dog to feel safe, then to get used to the new routine and then to feel at home.

If it is a puppy (even a nearly fully grown but actually only 9 month old puppy), well, it is going to behave like a puppy and be outrageous sometimes.

That said I’ve been in trouble before for firmly telling my Mum’s dog to stop doing something and I know that can be frustrating. She doesn’t really believe in training dogs.... but he does generally behave and listen to her (mostly) these days.
I guess what I am saying is if it is a new dog there is still time for it to settle

#13 *Spikey*

Posted 31 December 2019 - 08:40 AM

To get a dog to be silent, especially one that is rewarded for being noisy, is not as hard as you might think.

Hold the treat where the dog can see it - let the dog bark. When the dog stops barking (and you may need to wait for a few seconds/minutes) for a brief moment, you give the treat. You repeat this exercise, lots - and over the space of an hour or so, you extend the quiet time. Soon, the dog realises that its being rewarded for the quiet. Make a big fuss over the quiet dog, and you can add in "nobark".

I visited one of our rehomed dogs last year, she was a chronic barker. Didn't stop. I stayed for 2 hours. At the end of that lovely morning tea, there was no barking, no jumping, and great manners. It was so lovely to see.

Also, showing that the dog can be trained might be more encouraging for them to actually do training.

#14 FuzzyChocolateToes

Posted 31 December 2019 - 08:42 AM

I wouldn't have lasted a week in this scenario, so well done!  I am not a dog lover, and I get frightened when they are not under control, like this dog. So I would have no problem leaving early, if that's what you think you should do. I would also have no problem staying away until the dog is trained. That's the approach I'd take.

#15 Hollycoddle

Posted 31 December 2019 - 08:47 AM

View PostLallalla, on 31 December 2019 - 08:40 AM, said:

It sounds like the new dog is a grown up? So is it a rescue?

I am sure I read somewhere it takes months for a rescue dog to feel safe, then to get used to the new routine and then to feel at home.


Add to the fact that they were visiting as well so the dog wasn't even in its own home.  I think they're rude for even bringing the dog along if they're going to be staying in close quarters with other people.  Make other arrangements for it. It's a dog, not a child.  The least they could do would be to put it outside or in an area away from other people.

Edited by Hollycoddle, 31 December 2019 - 09:01 AM.


#16 born.a.girl

Posted 31 December 2019 - 09:02 AM

View Post*Spikey*, on 31 December 2019 - 08:40 AM, said:

To get a dog to be silent, especially one that is rewarded for being noisy, is not as hard as you might think.

Hold the treat where the dog can see it - let the dog bark. When the dog stops barking (and you may need to wait for a few seconds/minutes) for a brief moment, you give the treat. You repeat this exercise, lots - and over the space of an hour or so, you extend the quiet time. Soon, the dog realises that its being rewarded for the quiet. Make a big fuss over the quiet dog, and you can add in "nobark".

I visited one of our rehomed dogs last year, she was a chronic barker. Didn't stop. I stayed for 2 hours. At the end of that lovely morning tea, there was no barking, no jumping, and great manners. It was so lovely to see.

Also, showing that the dog can be trained might be more encouraging for them to actually do training.


I'm going to try this with the frequently visiting schnauzer who gets little effective training at home for his barking - although it drives them batty, and they are happy for us to do whatever helps, obviously within reason.

He's so bizarre he still keeps barking when the visitor arriving is patting him.

There are generally two of us at home so we can do it each time anyone comes to the door.

#17 Ivy Ivy

Posted 31 December 2019 - 09:11 AM

ljmcco,
re "For the first week, there were 6 of us, me, DH, his parents, and DH and his wife"
when I first read this sentence in your post I thought, 'oh that's interesting, EB is more diverse than I'd realised, there are polygamous families, good to see'.

Anyway,

the reality is once you have a baby, or child under about 8, you'd never let them be alone unattended with such a dog.  That'll be easy to communicate and enforce (well, maybe emotionally distressing if other family members don't agree with your position, but easy for you to enforce as it's your child).

Otherwise generally that just sounds like a real pain-in-the-neck dog, so personally I'd just avoid staying in the same house with it in the future.  Short meal visits, and I'd be asking if invited to stay longer, "will the dog be there", and if the answer is yes, make clear by your polite "we'll stay elsewhere then" answer you're just not a fan of jumping barking doggy.

#18 Silverstreak

Posted 31 December 2019 - 09:11 AM

Yeah, I wouldn't bring up the dog and the future baby, that's just borrowing trouble, as the saying goes. But I wouldn't be happy bringing a baby into that situation either.

Hopefully the dog will settle down and/or get some proper training, but if it doesn't, I'd try to negotiate something. Eg, a friend of mine has a large dog that I'm not comfortable around, it will jump up and put its paws on my shoulders and stick its nose in my crotch and can be aggressive around other animals. So now when I visit, the dog stays outside. May delete post so don't quote!

#19 Ozquoll

Posted 31 December 2019 - 09:30 AM

This bit really stood out to me:

"I have objected to the noise, but was told that the dog won't be put outside or upstairs so I left the room."

FFS 🤬!! Does a spoiled dog matter more than a human who is being made uncomfortable by its behaviour? Why on earth should YOU have to leave the room? I think you are going to have an uphill battle getting these people to see your perspective 🙄.

If you are still at IL's house, have a go at Spikey's suggestion of training the dog with treats. If you have left, I would make it clear to IL's that you won"t be staying there again if the dog is there and still untrained. I would definitely not mention anything about the safety of any future children - that is a future problem, but the dog jumping and barking is today's problem.




**Disclaimer - I am a cat person, in case you can't tell 😉**

#20 just roses

Posted 31 December 2019 - 09:34 AM

That would drive me a bit batty too.

However, the difficulty is that you are in someone else's house. It's up to your in laws to decide if they want the dog in their home. And it's up to you and your DH to decide if you can put up with it or if you'd prefer to cut short your stay.

Later, when there's a baby, you can decide on the boundaries you're comfortable with.

When our first was a baby, my parents' dog was old and not used to unpredictable little people. We did a combination of keeping dog and baby separated, and keeping dog outside if the baby was crawling around.

With our own dog, we are very conscious of how visitors feel about dogs. For visitors who are scared of dogs, we'll put him in the laundry. However, these are visitors who are around for lunch or dinner. Anyone who stays with us would do so knowing that the dog sleeps inside and it's just not practical and fair to have him separate from us for days. It hasn't happened before, but we would just be clear about that if it did, and we'd be fine if people chose to stay elsewhere instead if they weren't comfortable with the dog.

#21 JustBeige

Posted 31 December 2019 - 09:48 AM

Quote

would it be out of line for me to say that I am not happy to have the dog around if and when we do have a baby?
Yep. You are starting a war for something in the future.  If you were pregnant and nearly due, then maybe you could use that line solely based on the childs safety.


Quote

but if it injures my child I will have the dog destroyed.

Is this too nasty on my part?
  Yep. You are addressing something that has not happened and may never ever happen.

Tbh, I think I would just make the decision that IF the dog is still around and still the same once the baby is on the scene, then you will make alternative accommodation arrangements.,  You would also have to think about how a crying bub may impact the other adults in the house and you can have that as a reason to stay elsewhere when you visit.

I think its not worth starting a war now about future events when they may not occur.

Re the dog behaviour.  I dont think there is anything you can do other than use your firm no voice and take Spikeys advice above.

#22 Not Escapin Xmas

Posted 31 December 2019 - 11:02 AM

OP, you are seriously counting your chickens (and problems!) before they are hatched. As you can read in many many threads, just because you want a baby doesn’t mean you’re going to just instantly fall pregnant!

Secondly, you will not let your (not yet real) child near said dog so chance of injury is minimal. So you are not going to get to choose to have the dog put down. And anyway, it wouldn’t be your decision anyway!!

Lastly, why not talk to your BiL about training for the dog? Have you tried?

#23 #notallcats

Posted 31 December 2019 - 01:10 PM

I'm not a dog person, and the whole think sounds pretty annoying, however I think you have been a bit rude and definitely shouldn't say anything further.  It's their house, the dog sounds young (or new to the household at least)... one day you may have a noisy child who screeches or cries a lot, imagine how you'd feel if someone in your own house, told you to lock the child away.  Right or wrong, someone people think their animals are their children.  If safety isn't a concern, and it is their house, then I'd just leave it.  It's early days, they will probably start training it soon.

#24 seayork2002

Posted 31 December 2019 - 01:47 PM

View PostFreddie, on 31 December 2019 - 08:27 AM, said:

I agree with the others about leaving out any talk of possible as yet unconceived babies.

You have a couple of options - don't stay with your in laws when your BIL and the dog is there and / or don't stay with your BIL.

You can't force someone to train their dog.  So remove yourself from the whole situation.

This and I think you are coming across as controlling and a bit rude to be perfectly honest don't stay with them if you don't want too

#25 ImperatorFuriosa

Posted 31 December 2019 - 02:37 PM

Yikes, and to think you aren't even pregnant yet. :ph34r:

Edited by ImperatorFuriosa, 31 December 2019 - 02:38 PM.





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