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ABAS 3 or vinelands cost approx?

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#1 Caitlin Happymeal

Posted 11 January 2020 - 09:14 AM

Hopefully someone can give me a rough idea - has anyone had a vinelands or abas3 done recently (preferably in Brisbane) and can tell me the approx cost? We have one coming up (the hoops we have to jump through to get ASD1 with multiple co morbidities approved for NDIS access 🙄 - in my opinion - diagnosed with ASD? That's ASD regardless of level.. but whatever - thats a vent for another day...)

Just bracing myself for the financial hit straight after Christmas. From the limited info I can find online, it looks like $500 ish is where it's at... If that's the case, thats doable, but if it's more in the $1000s, I might have to postpone.

Forgot to ask them on the phone the other day and obviously can call Monday and ask, but just trying to budget roughly today.

#2 Lees75

Posted 11 January 2020 - 01:45 PM

I would get a Vineland done, rather than an ABAS, as NDIS prefer it for access purposes.

You will probably find it is cheaper to go to an OT than a psych, although if you need a diagnostic assessment to get an ASD Level, you will need to go to a psych. But they will need to do more than just a Vineland, I would imagine.

#3 José

Posted 11 January 2020 - 02:24 PM

Have you already applied for NDIS and been knocked back or are you just anticipating what they might need.?
If there are multiple commodities an ABAS or vineland alone will be unlikely to be enough to assign a level re: ASD.
Do you already have a psych or paed involved that cpuld assign a level if required?
An ABAS or vineland should  show functional impairments, which NDIS should like, but on its own it couldnt say whether the impairment is due to ASD or the other diagnoses.  And the ABAS doesn't really address the restricted repetitive interests part of ASD. So while it may be useful i wouldnt think on its own its enough for a person who doesn't know your child to give a level.

#4 jmjsa

Posted 11 January 2020 - 06:13 PM

Our daughters psych did her abas and I am pretty sure that she just charged 1 hour so $200 for the report.  Our daughter is level 1 and I believe that the abas really helped and we got what I considered a good ndis package.

Another option could be a uni.  We had a heap of testing done, Wisconsin, wiat and a few others and all up it cost us $250.

#5 smiley~kylie

Posted 11 January 2020 - 07:35 PM

If it’s just to apply for the NDIS you shouldn’t need it.
We were just approved for DS15. We gave them his original ASD diagnosis paperwork. He was diagnosed at 4 so it’s old! We also gave them a letter from school, a letter from his psych, a speech assessment (that showed no delays) and a letter from the GP. That was it. He doesn’t see a speechie or OT so he saw the speechie at school for the assessment. School can also organise for the Vineland to be done through student support services

#6 Froyohoho

Posted 11 January 2020 - 10:14 PM

I don't know how old your child is, but as a primary school teacher I regularly complete Vinelands. It's part of the job.

#7 Caitlin Happymeal

Posted 12 January 2020 - 07:56 AM

Thanks for the help folks :)

She's 10, has level 1 ASD/ADHD/a variety of anxiety diagnoses and a few medical issues. Her psych who we've had for ages wrote a stunning and compelling letter on her needs and addressed the appropriate NDIS domains, her paed gave supporting evidence, and she was still knocked back.

Meanwhile, her twin sister who is level 2 but actually has less functional impairments because she's not crippled by anxiety 100% of the time is accessing NDIS with no questions asked. That level 1 vs level 2 thing has really stuffed us up.

So this ABAS or vinelands (psych we are seeing on tue can do both) is our last ditch attempt to get her access. I will also be writing a carers impact statement.

I'm sort of over it but also don't want to give up the fight, which is exhausting.

Froyo and smileykylie, I had no idea teachers/schools could do it... hmmmm.

#8 Crombek

Posted 12 January 2020 - 08:01 AM

Teachers can't interpret or report on the results, but they are often asked to fill in a questionnaire as well as the caregiver. It's so we can look at how situational or global the child's impairments and strengths are and is really useful information to have for goal setting and intervention planning.

#9 José

Posted 12 January 2020 - 08:30 AM

A vineland and ABAS is a checklist that is completed by a person who knows the target person.
So, a teacher who knows a child well can complete a checklist, just as the parent can complete the checklist.
Neither a parent or teacher can purchase the checklist from the supplier directly, or score the checklist or interpret and report on the checklist.
A school psychologist could do it, however, there are waitlists and this is unlikely to be a priority for them. And school psychs are unlikely to be overly familiar with how to write for NDIS.
Why can't the usual psych do this? seems extremely strange to me.

#10 Lees75

Posted 12 January 2020 - 08:39 AM

In the situation you have described, I think the Vineland is preferable, although you could always ask the psych to send you the link to the Carers form for the ABAS, then you can do it at home, so it won’t cost extra money, and then they can include the results in their report as extra evidence of functional impact.

My only other thought, if you have already been denied because of a lack of functional evidence, NDIA tend to prefer an OT functional report, rather than a psych. The report needs to outline the functional difficulties in the 6 domain areas of mobility, self-care, self management (which is age related chores, life skills, such as catching the bus, etc), learning, communication and social interaction.  And it needs to include wording that is along the lines of “substantially reduced functional capacity in the domains of.........” as that is the eligibility requirement wording. With the evidence to back it up, i.e. Vineland or ABAS, as well as clinical and functional observations.

ETA It is important to remember that not a lot of NDIA staff are trained in disability, so they don’t have the skills to read a report and interpret what it means. It needs to be pointed out to them in their specific lingo.

Edited by Lees75, 12 January 2020 - 08:55 AM.

#11 Caitlin Happymeal

Posted 12 January 2020 - 09:34 AM

Yeah the regular psych CAN do it, as in, has the training, but the clinic she practices out of don't own the tools themselves. Which is super annoying. But she is also a fabulous clinician so we are sticking with her long term.

The psych we are seeing for this upcoming assessment - well, when I booked, I thought it was going to be with an OT. It's being done through our other daughter's therapy hub, who are very much up on NDIS speak and how to access it. Current psych is in an area that only just had NDIS rollout (We moved to a rolled out area recently) so they aren't quite au fait with it all just yet. They are getting there but it's such a convoluted system to navigate.

Gosh it's so frustrating.

#12 Caitlin Happymeal

Posted 12 January 2020 - 09:36 AM

Sounds like it's similar to the Connors (Or is it conners?) That we did for her ADHD diagnosis in that we filled it out, teacher filled one out and psych interpreted it. That was a few years ago though and a different psych.

#13 José

Posted 12 January 2020 - 09:52 AM

 Caitlin Happymeal, on 12 January 2020 - 09:36 AM, said:

Sounds like it's similar to the Connors (Or is it conners?) That we did for her ADHD diagnosis in that we filled it out, teacher filled one out and psych interpreted it. That was a few years ago though and a different psych.

I suppose you could say its similar to the Conners. but its assessing completely different things.
You read a bunch of statements and then choose the appropriate answer e.g. can do the task independently, needs help to do the task etc etc.

I still think it's highly unusual for a psych working with children not to have an ABAS OR a Vineland.  They must never ever do assessments!
Sounds like the people you are seeing know all about NDIS which is good!

FWIW a psych who had seen my son long  term charged $500 for an ABAS report. The practice didn't charge for the form and because of our situation we didn't require any face to face appointments. If we had seen him at all (E.g. to discuss reason for assessment, to receive and discuss report) we would have been charged for those sessions as well which is something like $220 per session. That would have pushed it close to the $1000 mark.

#14 Caitlin Happymeal

Posted 12 January 2020 - 10:19 AM

I think they dont do the assessments because they are a NFP and they are running on the smell of an oily rag. I think their model is going to have to change as more people in that area access NDIS.

Anyway, it's all good. I'll see what I can find out tomorrow over the phone.

I really,truly appreciate everyone's input - this whole situation is just so frustrating. Two people with the same condition, and a number in the diagnosis that makes all the difference. It's so much more complicated than "levels".

Anyway, I'll keep trying. She needs the support so badly - we want to give her so much more than we can.

#15 MsLaurie

Posted 12 January 2020 - 02:59 PM

Is the sticking point that NDIS is viewing the main issue as anxiety (& therefore “medical”), rather than ASD (& “disability”)?

#16 José

Posted 12 January 2020 - 03:09 PM

 MsLaurie, on 12 January 2020 - 02:59 PM, said:

Is the sticking point that NDIS is viewing the main issue as anxiety (& therefore “medical”), rather than ASD (& “disability”)?

It seems the main problem is the primary disability is ASD level 1. The OPs child with an ASD level 2 diagnosis was approved.

#17 Lees75

Posted 12 January 2020 - 04:38 PM

ASD Levels 2 and 3 are both NDIS List A conditions, which means acceptance is likely with no further evidence required.
ASD Level 1 is a List B condition, so further evidence of functional impairment is required.

Edited by Lees75, 14 January 2020 - 09:37 PM.

#18 Caitlin Happymeal

Posted 14 January 2020 - 09:28 PM

Exactly what Lees75 said. My understanding is that all ASD was originally to be covered under NDIS but they tightened the access requirements quite early on, limiting it to level 2-3 that qualify without much, if any, supporting evidence. They really dont get what the word spectrum means.

Well, ABAS done, sensory profile done, psychologist will tally up scores and write a report. Seemed to suggest that DD might possibly fit a level 2 diagnosis, and if so, best approach is to approach paed with the evidence and see if a change of level is possible/appropriate.

And going back to my original question, cost was under $500. Which was good.

Thanks all for the assistance :) It has helped. Now I will just wait and see if anything comes of it.

Hate how many times I have to talk about all the things my daughters can't do, just to get them support.

#19 jmjsa

Posted 15 January 2020 - 07:52 PM

Our daughter was given a level 1 diagnosis by psychiatrist but abas report (which was really, really, really low) stated that her needs were level 2.  She was accepted for ndis and got almost identical funding to her twin who received a level 2 diagnosis from psychiatrist

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