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Charged for being topless in her own home.


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#1 IamtheMumma

Posted 22 January 2020 - 06:01 PM

https://www.theguard...-tilli-buchanan


I'd be fighting the charges too. What a load of crap. Designed to punish her because her husband, the kid's father, wasn't charged. Nasty ex wife there.

#2 born.a.girl

Posted 22 January 2020 - 06:11 PM

It's outrageous.


I can't imagine this happening in any comparable country except the USA.  (Comparable with us in many ways.)

Although with some of their abortion law changes, their gun laws, and now this sort of thing, it seems like they're reverting back to the wild west.


ETA: Now this is a gofundme I'd happily contribute to.

Edited by born.a.girl, 22 January 2020 - 06:11 PM.


#3 fig_jam

Posted 22 January 2020 - 06:16 PM

Sounds like there is way more to the story as child protection were already involved.

It first says she took her clothes off to hang drywall but then said she was making some some sort of feminist point by exposing her breasts to the children.

I agree standards around toplessness for men vs women need to change, but whipping your top off in front of kids isn't the way to go about it.

#4 Expelliarmus

Posted 22 January 2020 - 06:27 PM

I wonder what the full story is - it changes depending on which article you read by the looks of things.

Bottom line is merely seeing a breast isn’t sexual so shouldn’t be subject to sexual offence laws particularly in ones own home!

#5 Datrys

Posted 22 January 2020 - 06:34 PM

I think it depends which lens you look at it through.

On the one hand, the idea that you can't be topless in the privacy of your own home is ridiculous.

But on the other hand, exposing yourself to minors in your care... that could be seen as grooming or low-level sexual abuse.  

Context is going to be important and I'm not sure we have the full picture on that.

#6 seayork2002

Posted 22 January 2020 - 06:46 PM

I am reserving judgement either way till the full story comes out (if the public learns the full truth)

#7 ~Jolly_F~

Posted 22 January 2020 - 06:48 PM

There has to be more to this but that said it is Utah, so who knows.

#8 Expelliarmus

Posted 22 January 2020 - 07:06 PM

View PostDatrys, on 22 January 2020 - 06:34 PM, said:

I think it depends which lens you look at it through.

On the one hand, the idea that you can't be topless in the privacy of your own home is ridiculous.

But on the other hand, exposing yourself to minors in your care... that could be seen as grooming or low-level sexual abuse.  

Context is going to be important and I'm not sure we have the full picture on that.
I think the context is quite clear. It is not low level sexual abuse - she was simply present and by the sounds of it the children initially were not. There was no sexual context. I think it’s a case of disgruntled biological mother tbh.

I’d be rich if I had a dollar for every time one of our three children has walked in on DH or I ‘exposed’.

#9 ekbaby

Posted 22 January 2020 - 07:47 PM

This article has more https://outline.com/VxYqNx

#10 LenaK

Posted 22 January 2020 - 07:50 PM

The reporting is terrible and there is WAY more to this story.

Firstly, child protection is already involved.
Secondly she removed her shirt AND her bra... to put up drywall?
Thirdly alcohol was involved? While putting up drywall?

While it is certain the US justice system is flukked and it is possible the ex-wife is not a nice person and decided to bring charges because she's nasty.... what I read between the lines is...

They decided to get drunk and naked to... hang drywall.

I don't know about you, but I prefer to remain sober and wear protective clothing while using power tools.

Edited by LenaK, 22 January 2020 - 07:50 PM.


#11 LenaK

Posted 22 January 2020 - 07:52 PM

<p><p>

View Postekbaby, on 22 January 2020 - 07:47 PM, said:

This article has more https://outline.com/VxYqNx

So... this makes more sense....
According to Buchanan, she had been in the garage that day with her husband, wearing long-sleeved shirts and protective clothing. They were sweaty and itchy, so they stripped down to their underwear, leaving their dirty clothes near a doorway so they could take a shower. That’s when the kids — a 13-year-old boy, a 10-year-old girl and a 9-year-old boy — saw her without her top on.

So she had a bra on?
But then this happens?

West Valley City Deputy Attorney Corey Sherwin offers a different account in court papers: He alleges that Buchanan stripped down in front of her stepchildren after making a statement about how if her husband could take off his shirt, then a woman should be able to as well.

He further alleges that Buchanan, while “under the influence of alcohol,” had told her husband that she would only put her shirt back on if he showed her his penis."

The whole thing is weird.
(edited because my formatting went crazy)

Edited by LenaK, 22 January 2020 - 08:02 PM.


#12 ~Jolly_F~

Posted 22 January 2020 - 07:56 PM

View PostLenaK, on 22 January 2020 - 07:50 PM, said:

The reporting is terrible and there is WAY more to this story.

Firstly, child protection is already involved.
Secondly she removed her shirt AND her bra... to put up drywall?
Thirdly alcohol was involved? While putting up drywall?


While it is certain the US justice system is flukked and it is possible the ex-wife is not a nice person and decided to bring charges because she's nasty.... what I read between the lines is...

They decided to get drunk and naked to... hang drywall.

I don't know about you, but I prefer to remain sober and wear protective clothing while using power tools.

First point - they were involved but it wasnt to do with Buchanan.

Second point - she may not wear a bra around home, plenty of people dont. That said it also doesnt actually say she didnt have a bra on. It could be possible that even with a bra this charge could go through. I do think its likely from the newer article posted, she was braless when they decided to strip off.

I have stripped off in the laundry and walked through to my room naked before after doing certain jobs, kids have seen, I wouldnt expect to be charged for it.

Third point - meh, whats the issue with having a drink while doing crap around your own home?

Edited by ~Jolly_F~, 22 January 2020 - 07:57 PM.


#13 Expelliarmus

Posted 22 January 2020 - 08:12 PM

View PostLenaK, on 22 January 2020 - 07:50 PM, said:

The reporting is terrible and there is WAY more to this story.

Firstly, child protection is already involved.
Secondly she removed her shirt AND her bra... to put up drywall?
Thirdly alcohol was involved? While putting up drywall?

While it is certain the US justice system is flukked and it is possible the ex-wife is not a nice person and decided to bring charges because she's nasty.... what I read between the lines is...

They decided to get drunk and naked to... hang drywall.

I don't know about you, but I prefer to remain sober and wear protective clothing while using power tools.
That’s what the prosecution is alleging. Like you say it doesn’t make sense.

Her point about it shouldn’t matter if she’s female is a fair point and more likely made in the context of already having been seen, not as a precursor to deciding to suddenly strip off.

Only the prosecution alleges she was drunk. There’s no proof of anything they say and it doesn’t make sense.

I’d believe her over allegations made by the children’s mother.

#14 ekbaby

Posted 22 January 2020 - 08:16 PM

I have been painting and working in the garden all summer and definitely relate to the hot sweaty dirty strip off clothes in the laundry and head straight to the pool or bathroom in my own home

#15 LenaK

Posted 22 January 2020 - 08:16 PM

View Post~Jolly_F~, on 22 January 2020 - 07:56 PM, said:

First point - they were involved but it wasnt to do with Buchanan.

Second point - she may not wear a bra around home, plenty of people dont. That said it also doesnt actually say she didnt have a bra on. It could be possible that even with a bra this charge could go through. I do think its likely from the newer article posted, she was braless when they decided to strip off.

I have stripped off in the laundry and walked through to my room naked before after doing certain jobs, kids have seen, I wouldnt expect to be charged for it.

Third point - meh, whats the issue with having a drink while doing crap around your own home?

Perhaps it wasn't to do with Buchanan but if the children have suffered abuse they (and their mother) may be triggered by nudity. It is part of the overall story. I'm not saying it makes criminal charges ok - I'm just saying we dont know the whole story.

I completely agree with your second point.  I wonder around naked in front of my children all the time. It is outrageous that charges would be made for being naked in your own home. My post simply suggests that we do not have the FACTS.

Third point - having a drink while doing things around the house is a little different to being drunk while using nail guns, drills and other electric tools.

It seriously would not surprise me if the charges were trumped up and that the media has decided to turn this into trial of feminism by morality. It is Utah after all. My point is simply that there is more to this story and we should be careful making assumptions.

#16 LenaK

Posted 22 January 2020 - 08:18 PM

View PostExpelliarmus, on 22 January 2020 - 08:12 PM, said:


Only the prosecution alleges she was drunk. There’s no proof of anything they say and it doesn’t make sense.

I’d believe her over allegations made by the children’s mother.

I don't believe anyone in this scenario. None of it makes sense!

#17 ~Jolly_F~

Posted 22 January 2020 - 08:22 PM

View PostLenaK, on 22 January 2020 - 08:16 PM, said:

Perhaps it wasn't to do with Buchanan but if the children have suffered abuse they (and their mother) may be triggered by nudity. It is part of the overall story. I'm not saying it makes criminal charges ok - I'm just saying we dont know the whole story.

I completely agree with your second point.  I wonder around naked in front of my children all the time. It is outrageous that charges would be made for being naked in your own home. My post simply suggests that we do not have the FACTS.

Third point - having a drink while doing things around the house is a little different to being drunk while using nail guns, drills and other electric tools.

It seriously would not surprise me if the charges were trumped up and that the media has decided to turn this into trial of feminism by morality. It is Utah after all. My point is simply that there is more to this story and we should be careful making assumptions.

It doesnt say she was drunk though, its says under the influence of alcohol, that could mean a couple of drinks.

But yes I think we should be careful making assumptions, all of us.

#18 teaspoon

Posted 22 January 2020 - 08:23 PM

Reminds me of this cartoon

Posted Image

#19 Expelliarmus

Posted 22 January 2020 - 08:23 PM

I thought it made perfect sense to hang drywall them come in and strip off before tracking dust and particles and whatnot throughout the house.

Even if the kids/their mother are triggered by nudity, this law is ridiculous and rather than charging Ms Buchanan for doing something perfectly normal, they should access some assistance for their difficulties.

So instead of helping children who are obviously vulnerable in some way, the government is using an outdated law to punish someone who’s not actually done anything wrong - it’s entirely subjective that law and needs to be challenged.

#20 fig_jam

Posted 22 January 2020 - 08:25 PM

It made the children uncomfortable/perturbed enough to tell their mother.

When the children walked in she didnt try and cover up. Based on her personal belief she should be allowed to expose her breasts because men can.

That, unfortunately, is not the society we live in.

If it was a stepfather exposing his penis to children saying he was just hot/sweaty, it wasnt sexual, he was in his own home etc would that fly? I think not.

#21 ~Jolly_F~

Posted 22 January 2020 - 08:31 PM

View Postfig_jam, on 22 January 2020 - 08:25 PM, said:

It made the children uncomfortable/perturbed enough to tell their mother.

When the children walked in she didnt try and cover up. Based on her personal belief she should be allowed to expose her breasts because men can.

That, unfortunately, is not the society we live in.

If it was a stepfather exposing his penis to children saying he was just hot/sweaty, it wasnt sexual, he was in his own home etc would that fly? I think not.

We have no idea what context the kids told their mother in though?

On the penis thing, for me, again context is everything but she wasnt flashing her vag, so I dont think its the same, she had the same amount of skin out as their father and he is all good.

Edited by ~Jolly_F~, 22 January 2020 - 08:33 PM.


#22 teaspoon

Posted 22 January 2020 - 08:31 PM

View Postfig_jam, on 22 January 2020 - 08:25 PM, said:

If it was a stepfather exposing his penis to children saying he was just hot/sweaty, it wasnt sexual, he was in his own home etc would that fly? I think not.

Breasts are not genitals

#23 Expelliarmus

Posted 22 January 2020 - 08:31 PM

I don’t think breasts and penises are the same.

Perhaps, yes, she should have been less outspoken about the fact it should be the same as men as a step parent and mindful of whatever morals the parents are trying to instil and maybe she could have handled it better, covered up or whatnot but surely this is a conversation that could be had in mediation circumstances. Is it really something she should be charged with and dragged into court? Is it really the best way to handle it for what appears to be a first incident/one off?

#24 LenaK

Posted 22 January 2020 - 08:31 PM

View PostExpelliarmus, on 22 January 2020 - 08:23 PM, said:


So instead of helping children who are obviously vulnerable in some way, the government is using an outdated law to punish someone who’s not actually done anything wrong - it’s entirely subjective that law and needs to be challenged.

Could not agree more!

This is exactly what I meant when I said trial of feminism by morality.

#25 ExpatInAsia

Posted 22 January 2020 - 08:38 PM

I don’t have a problem if my children see me naked but I would not be naked in front of other people’s children. Yes it is her home but if her step children are there and they, or one of their parents don’t want an adult naked in front of the children then she needs to cover up.

Using this law is a blunt instrument - I wonder if they had no other option to enforce this.




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