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WA to ban puppy farms!


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#1 Romeo Void

Posted 10 February 2020 - 12:29 PM

https://www.theguard...tAkh2zeeoFACC8E

#2 SummerStar

Posted 10 February 2020 - 12:59 PM

This is good! We need that in nsw as a start... I'm hoping they eventually ban BYB too... A long way off that I think but banned in pet shops and banning puppy farms is a good start.

#3 Oriental lily

Posted 10 February 2020 - 01:13 PM

they have been banned in vic for a while now . I don’t think it’s made a zero amount of  of difference . It just gets hidden better . Which in a way makes it worse because a council does not even get to do a sporadic chance of an inspection .

but google designer dog breeders in vic and you get heaps of oodly doodley monstrosities for sale everywhere .

many would deffinetly fit a description of a puppy farm but because they are not licensed as one  they fly under the radar .

i am not convinced legislation does anything for animal welfare . Education about sourcing family pets from ethical registered breeders is the only thing that will work .

#4 Romeo Void

Posted 10 February 2020 - 01:17 PM

I don't know how the Vic version works but this sounds like they're really trying to put the thumb screws on it.

#5 Oriental lily

Posted 10 February 2020 - 01:22 PM

Actually just read the article more carefully . It said it will stop ‘illegal puppy farms ‘ so those with a license and registered with a council that are microchipped as coming from that farm are still allowed . Legal puppy farm are still very horrible for a dog to live in and the standards are still very low. .

#6 #notallcats

Posted 10 February 2020 - 02:04 PM

View PostOriental lily, on 10 February 2020 - 01:22 PM, said:

Actually just read the article more carefully . It said it will stop ‘illegal puppy farms ‘ so those with a license and registered with a council that are microchipped as coming from that farm are still allowed . Legal puppy farm are still very horrible for a dog to live in and the standards are still very low. .

Yes you'll have to be a registered breeder, and the pup/dog should be able to be traced throughout its life. Pet stores won't be able to sell puppies, only re-home pup/dogs from shelters. It's a start, not perfect, and probably about 20 years too late.  I don't know why you think it's only 'designer' dog breeders that are horrible, I'm sure there are plenty of purebred breeders that are too.  'Oddles are here to stay, and we are better off trying to register/examine their practices than ban.  Ideally all breeding would be banned while dogs linger in shelters but selfishness prevails.

#7 SummerStar

Posted 10 February 2020 - 02:52 PM

No one has ever said all pure breeders are ethical and reputable. But no oodle breeder is. You can't be a registered breeder of a cross breed since they aren't a breed and can't be registered as one.

So if they ban breeding by non registered breeders we would see the end of BYB looking to cash in off breeding mutts....

And there's many reasons they're "horrible" not just because they breed mutts. But there is no registered body with guidelines for breeders to follow that means they can't breed them more than a certain number of times, that they can't sell through pet shops, that they need relevant testing etc. Crossed breeders are in it for the money only, not the health and well being of the dogs or bettering any breed etc just for profit and there are many fools who spend upwards of $4000-6000 and then some on these false promises about what genes they'll get.

They're also breeding pet quality dogs not breed quality because no breeder would sell a dog on mains to a cross breeder or someone who wasn't a registered breeder. So the pet they breed are most likely on a desexing contract which they ignore, making them dishonest from the get go.

They also can't promise what genes the pup will take from the adults like most cross breeders do. They promise non shedding, this and that, but the dogs aren't made in a lab, it's a lucky dip what genes they get from which dog. But people blindly believe these dodgy breeders.

That's just a few reasons why they should be stopped.

Edited by SummerStar, 10 February 2020 - 03:27 PM.


#8 Oriental lily

Posted 10 February 2020 - 03:28 PM

The confusion comes on what people consider a ‘registered breeder ‘

you can be registered with the council .
you can registered with your states dog society VICdogs ect .
you can  be registered with a MBA , which welcomes x breeds like the oodles .

Or you can register with breed development groups like the group trying to get the Aussie bulldog a recognised breed ..

all these can claim to have registered puppies . But many of these groups don’t have strict ethical standards that they enforce . Talk the talk but don’t walk the walk .

ultimately it makes very little difference on what breeders claim to be registered with . No good breeder will sell pups to a pet shop . So automatically sourcing a pup there even before it became illegal should be a no go .

the best way to get a ethically bred dog is to do your own research . Straight away a good search will show why designer breeds are a no go .

then you need to find a good breeder of purebred dogs with a excellent reputation . There is heaps of resources online on how to find one .

i think all the legislation in the world can not replace your own personal research on finding a good breeder .

#9 Ozquoll

Posted 10 February 2020 - 03:55 PM

Okay, this is a genuine question so please don't flame me - what's so bad about cross breeds? The best dog I ever met was an unholy mix of god-knows-what. I can see that oodles have been a bloody disaster, but isn't that more because people have bred them for a certain look rather than focussing on temperament and trainability?

#10 But seriously

Posted 10 February 2020 - 03:55 PM

My vet who I asked advise from in regards to what sort of dog did not have a problem with some cross-breeds. We got a cavoodle. On his advice. Are you saying that vets are ill-informed?

I agreed with you about pet shops - and my vet said no dogs from pet shops as they are always likely to be anxious and there are other issues. He also said no dogs from interstate - you dont get to meet their parents

#11 SummerStar

Posted 10 February 2020 - 04:10 PM

Yes. Because no one can promise you that you won't get the heart issues known to cavaliers just by crossing them. Or that it won't shed and take after the poodle.

I know if a few cavoodles that have died young of the heart condition the owners were promised they wouldn't have.

And you supported a BYB who as I said above has just bred two pet quality dogs together and hoped for the best. Probably done no testing (many cross breeders these days seem to tell buyers they have but don't bother doing it.)

So yes you were given bad advice and then went on to support a BYB or puppy farm depending where you got it.

#12 SummerStar

Posted 10 February 2020 - 04:12 PM

View PostOzquoll, on 10 February 2020 - 03:55 PM, said:

Okay, this is a genuine question so please don't flame me - what's so bad about cross breeds? The best dog I ever met was an unholy mix of god-knows-what. I can see that oodles have been a bloody disaster, but isn't that more because people have bred them for a certain look rather than focussing on temperament and trainability?

They're bred by BYB or puppy farms who do all I said above and more.

I'm not against cross breeds it's not their fault they were bought into the world. But I'd only ever rescue one. I wouldn't line the pockets of a dodgy breeder and keep the cycle going. I don't get with all the info out there why people still support dodgy breeders but I guess someone has to because there's enough of them around where people are still paying bucket loads.

#13 annodam

Posted 10 February 2020 - 04:27 PM

View PostBut seriously, on 10 February 2020 - 03:55 PM, said:

My vet who I asked advise from in regards to what sort of dog did not have a problem with some cross-breeds. We got a cavoodle cross-bred mutt. On his advice. Are you saying that vets are ill-informed?

I agreed with you about pet shops - and my vet said no dogs from pet shops as they are always likely to be anxious and there are other issues. He also said no dogs from interstate - you dont get to meet their parents



Fixed it for you!

#14 But seriously

Posted 10 February 2020 - 04:53 PM

Are you a vet?

There are no guarantees with any pet. We have a pure bred cat and a rescue cat and now a dog. They are all lovely in their different ways

#15 SummerStar

Posted 10 February 2020 - 04:58 PM

You seem to think that because a vet said it must be so.... Instead of researching the why yourself. So really you don't care what you got or any of the other details but the vet said so it must be right.

I have actually heard of vets being BYB themselves and breeding mutts. They know people pay. And they can up sell when someone asks. Being a vet doesn't make them an expert on breeding or registered breeders and how they go about breeding their dogs. But it is interesting to see the various reasons why people actively support BYB and puppy farms. "The vet said" is probably quite a legitimate reason for many.

And no there's no guarantee as such but I'd rather have a pup from dogs who have been tested and have no genetic problems to pass on and are suitable to breed together. Also the lifetime support from an ethical breeder is important too.

Edited by SummerStar, 10 February 2020 - 05:00 PM.


#16 But seriously

Posted 10 February 2020 - 05:05 PM

I am certain our vet is not a breeder.

And it makes them an expert at least on pets and their various issues.

I take professional advice from professionals. Same as I would a medical doctor.

#17 SummerStar

Posted 10 February 2020 - 05:08 PM

I didn't say they were a breeder I said I have heard of vets breeding. But ok, you asked and didn't like the answer. But like I said it is interesting to see the justifications of those who buy from dodgy breeders....

#18 Oriental lily

Posted 10 February 2020 - 05:13 PM

Purposefully bred x breeds are unethical because .

the breeders lie and say they don’t inherit the bad bits of both breeds . You only need a basic understanding of genetics to understand that’s a croc .

they have no standard they follow . So a pup can look like a mix of their parents , the father , the mother or some weird throw back in its line ( that’s why multi generations of a x breed is deffinetly not better )

most are bred for profit . Not for the betterment of the breed .
good ethical purebred breeders import lines from all over the world to widen gene pools . This costs a fortune . Not profit to be made .
they say many a hypoallergenic . Lie because non one can predict the adult coat of a mixed breed .

they often have structural issues due to parents looking massively different from one another . I recently do a Bernese mounatain dog crossed with a mini poodle . If they inherit the light bone frame the poodle but the muscle mass of the Berber well can you imagine ?

no one is saying all purebred dogs are ethically bred either . I think French bulldogs should never be bred due to health issues . Most brachy breeds are a disgrace .

but you if you do your research you can find ethically bred dogs .

like the little Havanese puppy I am getting in 6 weeks!

#19 *Spikey*

Posted 10 February 2020 - 06:35 PM

View PostBut seriously, on 10 February 2020 - 05:05 PM, said:

I am certain our vet is not a breeder.

And it makes them an expert at least on pets and their various issues.

I take professional advice from professionals. Same as I would a medical doctor.

Actually, it doesn't make them a specialist in breeding. It makes them a generalist in treating diseases of companion animals, and livestock, and occasionally natives and zoo animals.

a vet can administer a genetic test, but they aren't geneticists.

Would I trust a vet to tell me about the disease of the dog in front of me? Absolutely. Do I expect them to be informed about the breeding programs and genetic screening of over 300 breeds of dog alone? Nope.

And if a vet tells you that a Cavoodle is a breed, doesn't warn you about where they are bred and the circumstance likely to be involved in the purchase you make, plus explaining the genetic lottery when it comes to shedding, and inherited diseases from both breeds, then they're not a particularly informed vet. In fact, I'd go as far as saying, they're not a particularly good vet. A quick observation of the muscularskeletosystem of any cross bred dog tells you there's will most likely be issues. So why a vet would recommend a dog that is going to be expensive to buy, and even more expensive to keep alive and comfortable is beyond me.

#20 #notallcats

Posted 10 February 2020 - 06:53 PM

View PostSummerStar, on 10 February 2020 - 04:58 PM, said:

You seem to think that because a vet said it must be so.... Instead of researching the why yourself.

That sounds like an anti-vaxer doing their own "research" rather than accepting expert opinion.

Anyone talking about "ethical' breeders while dogs sit in shelters are not in a position to judge anyone else's choices. There are just as many rubbish breeders of pure breed as mutts.  Perhaps more.

The boat has long sailed on 'oodles'.  People need to accept it and work with it, to ensure the dogs are cared for,  instead of ridiculing owners.  I don't believe anyone should be breeding but even I can accept it's going to happen, so let's make sure proper laws are in place. (and perhaps registering the breeds so they have a governing body).

Edited by #notallcats, 10 February 2020 - 06:57 PM.


#21 franklymum

Posted 10 February 2020 - 06:59 PM

View Post#notallcats, on 10 February 2020 - 02:04 PM, said:

Yes you'll have to be a registered breeder, and the pup/dog should be able to be traced throughout its life. Pet stores won't be able to sell puppies, only re-home pup/dogs from shelters. It's a start, not perfect, and probably about 20 years too late.  I don't know why you think it's only 'designer' dog breeders that are horrible, I'm sure there are plenty of purebred breeders that are too.  'Oddles are here to stay, and we are better off trying to register/examine their practices than ban.  Ideally all breeding would be banned while dogs linger in shelters but selfishness prevails.

Run - leave this thread now. Time is too precious!

View PostBut seriously, on 10 February 2020 - 03:55 PM, said:

My vet who I asked advise from in regards to what sort of dog did not have a problem with some cross-breeds. We got a cavoodle. On his advice. Are you saying that vets are ill-informed?

I agreed with you about pet shops - and my vet said no dogs from pet shops as they are always likely to be anxious and there are other issues. He also said no dogs from interstate - you dont get to meet their parents

Another poor soul. Trust me - this thread only ever goes one way. I love EB normally but my unasked for advice is to stay away from the pure bred dog threads - any dog that isn't a pure bred is a mutt, anyone who has a mutt is evil and there is no grey area, there is only black and white. Pure bred dog breeders are incredibly vicious about protecting their income streams. Not that they do it for the money of course - it's only out of the goodness of their dog loving hearts and a virtuous desire to maintain pure blood lines.

For those who may wish to flame me, feel free but I won't be around to read it sorry, I've got to wash my hair. Not flouncing, just wanted to make a quick public service announcement for any other poor unsuspecting EB members who may not have had the pleasure of meeting this particular demographic.

Edited by franklymum, 10 February 2020 - 07:00 PM.


#22 SummerStar

Posted 10 February 2020 - 07:01 PM

Health and well being of dogs is not like an antivaxxer.... The fact is no cross breeder can be registered with a recognised breed organisation because they aren't a breed. Full stop.

And anyone buying them is supporting dodgy breeders which I can't understand but so many do it.

And the shelter call card is old. Yes there's alot of dogs in shelters. Most of them cross breeds that didn't turn out how the buyer thought or were promised. And msot are breeds not suitable to my family. So when choosing a dog I will go to a reputable breeder if there isn't a dog in a rescue suitable. We have had many rescues over the years. But sometimes there just isn't one suitable and getting any old dog for the sake of it isn't a sensible thing to do.


Again, not all registered breeders are ethical and reputable, by no cross breeders are. Finding a registered breeder of a suitable breed is a start.

I am surprised there are so many supporters of dodgy breeders who even defend that choice to support such an industry. I hope they do bring in a ban on breeding if not registered with a recognised breed body. It's the only way to stop it because too many people clearly don't care what they buy or its history.

#23 #notallcats

Posted 10 February 2020 - 07:01 PM

View Postfranklymum, on 10 February 2020 - 06:59 PM, said:

Not that they do it for the money of course - it's only out of the goodness of their dog loving hearts and a virtuous desire to maintain pure blood lines.


I did chuckle at that bit too.

#24 SummerStar

Posted 10 February 2020 - 07:02 PM

View Postfranklymum, on 10 February 2020 - 06:59 PM, said:



Run - leave this thread now. Time is too precious!



Another poor soul. Trust me - this thread only ever goes one way. I love EB normally but my unasked for advice is to stay away from the pure bred dog threads - any dog that isn't a pure bred is a mutt, anyone who has a mutt is evil and there is no grey area, there is only black and white. Pure bred dog breeders are incredibly vicious about protecting their income streams. Not that they do it for the money of course - it's only out of the goodness of their dog loving hearts and a virtuous desire to maintain pure blood lines.

For those who may wish to flame me, feel free but I won't be around to read it sorry, I've got to wash my hair. Not flouncing, just wanted to make a quick public service announcement for any other poor unsuspecting EB members who may not have had the pleasure of meeting this particular demographic.

No the mutt isn't evil but the sorry excuse for a breeder is.

And no need to flame you, I've read your past posts on this and from memory you're one of those I refer to is happy to support dodgy breeders as is your right, but it's mine to judge for it.

#25 #notallcats

Posted 10 February 2020 - 07:04 PM

View PostSummerStar, on 10 February 2020 - 07:01 PM, said:



I am surprised there are so many supporters of dodgy breeders who even defend that choice to support such an industry. I hope they do bring in a ban on breeding if not registered with a recognised breed body. It's the only way to stop it because too many people clearly don't care what they buy or its history.

I'm surprised you and others are so stubborn over 'oodles'.  No we are not supporters of BYB, and no I'm not a supporter of "ethical" breeders either.  But I am a realist.   Register the breeds, give them a governing body... because 'oodles' are not going away, and while people are charging $2k++, at least make them accountable.




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