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WA to ban puppy farms!


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#26 SummerStar

Posted 10 February 2020 - 07:05 PM

View Post#notallcats, on 10 February 2020 - 07:01 PM, said:



I did chuckle at that bit too.

Well while you're wasting time laughing at the uneducated post perhaps you need to find out exactly the costs involved in breeding properly. How much money they don't make from it after buying breed quality dogs, having them tested, the time it takes and much more. Yet the dodgy breeders you're in support of don't do any of that. They cut costs and make a bomb pumping out as many dogs as idiots buy. But yes, ethical registered breeders are in it for the money... Wow....

View Post#notallcats, on 10 February 2020 - 07:04 PM, said:



I'm surprised you and others are so stubborn over 'oodles'.  No we are not supporters of BYB, and no I'm not a supporter of "ethical" breeders either.  But I am a realist.   Register the breeds, give them a governing body... because 'oodles' are not going away, and while people are charging $2k++, at least make them accountable.

Oodle breeder charge way more than that. Most pure breeds are less than mixed mutts with stupid names. And yes they could be stopped. But they make so much money why would they want to... Yes you clearly support it. Good for you. A fool and their money...

Edited by SummerStar, 10 February 2020 - 07:08 PM.


#27 ~Jolly_F~

Posted 10 February 2020 - 07:09 PM

It sounds like it might be similar how Qld does it already.

You get a breeder number. Which is easy to get on the internet.

You can still have a backyard litter, you just need a breeder number to sell them.

It just tracks the amount of litters had on one breeder number.

#28 #notallcats

Posted 10 February 2020 - 07:10 PM

How would you stop t

View PostSummerStar, on 10 February 2020 - 07:05 PM, said:


And yes they could be stopped. But they make so much money why would they want to... Yes you clearly support it. Good for you. A fool and their money...

How would you stop them then?

I'm not a dog person btw, so no I don't support them.  But like I said, I'm a realist.  To me, the compromise is to register the breed, give them a governing body or whatever they do in dog land, and make them accountable.

#29 Oriental lily

Posted 10 February 2020 - 07:37 PM

My Havanese pup ( who does not shed, no ifs or buts, is tested for all known heritable diseases , who has breeder support for life and breeding can be traced back to dogs who originally left Cuba ) costs about $1000 dollars less than a random cavoodle to be found on gum tree or the trading post .

other cavoodles from places that pretend they are legitimate breeders charge DOUBLE the amount I am paying for my Havanese .

I have also be warned that everyone will think my Havanese is a cavoodle as well . Especially if kept in a puppy clip hair cut .

but at least my Havanese who are long lived healthy breeds won’t have any health ticking bombs like heart disease like cavoodles are known for .

#30 annodam

Posted 10 February 2020 - 07:38 PM

View Post*Spikey*, on 10 February 2020 - 06:35 PM, said:

So why a vet would recommend a dog that is going to be expensive to buy, and even more expensive to keep alive and comfortable is beyond me.



Because if the over-priced cross-bred mutt gets sick, it'll be probably taken to the Vet, no?
So he's making a profit in a sense.
The only money my Vet makes from me is $300.00 for yearly Heart Worming, a C5 & Intestinal Worming.
He needs dickey people buying cross-breds so he can diagnose, treat to alleviate pain & prescribe expensive heart medication & so on...

#31 Oriental lily

Posted 10 February 2020 - 07:40 PM

https://www.chevromist.com/

This is one of the ‘fancy’ puppy farms masquerading as something it’s not . Look at the prices !

this place is not far from me . You pick the pups up from a warehouse shed . Not the fancy green rolling hills it likes to portray itself .

Edited by Oriental lily, 10 February 2020 - 07:41 PM.


#32 Oriental lily

Posted 10 February 2020 - 07:58 PM

https://www.chevromi...ggallery/page/4

$6000 !!!

or you could get my little baby ( who is now 6 weeks old ) for $2500

both ‘ breeds’ have the same attributes . Great family dogs . Happy, intelligent , easy to train , none shedding coats , similar size ect .

difference mine has a very good chance of being all that .

look at the cavoodles on that page further down . For sure they have inherited the cavalier coat that DOES shed, they look much more cavalier than poodle .

everyday a sucker is born .......

Attached Files



#33 Romeo Void

Posted 10 February 2020 - 08:03 PM

Cross bred, pure bred...if you're breeding into a saturated market then I lump you all in together.  I've seen *plenty* of pure bred dogs at the RSPCA over the years. I think purebred breeders are deluded.

I've got a friend who bought an 'oodle' a year ago. She adores her pup but mutters everytime I see her 'he's bigger than I thought he'd be'.  I tried to talk her out of doing it..

Anyway I think any tightening of the screws is a good thing.  I never thought this would do away with puppy farming or animal neglect, but it will help a little.

#34 Oriental lily

Posted 10 February 2020 - 08:10 PM

The only dogs I see in the rspca  are bull mixes, herding mixes,  pig hounds ( wolfhounds staghound mixes) greyhounds and the ocassional husky . Mostyoungb medium sized good for family dogs don’t end up there .

all there due to irresponsibly morons who don’t desex there b**ches or they think by desexingbtheir dogs it removes their ‘drive’

#35 Oriental lily

Posted 10 February 2020 - 08:24 PM

https://www.petrescu...ngs/search/dogs

nearly 3000 dogs . I would say 5% are purebred .

the market might be saturated but not with purebred dogs .

#36 #notallcats

Posted 10 February 2020 - 08:34 PM

blah blah here are my choices and why they are "ethical"/

What are the solutions?




#37 But seriously

Posted 10 February 2020 - 08:46 PM

And for the record my vet never suggested Cavoodle was a breed - just an option for a dog for us. And he wasn’t $2000. He was less. And the purebred cat has been far more expensive than the rescue cat. And if this thread is anything to go by, dog breeders sound like a self righteous bunch of virtue-signallers

#38 *Spikey*

Posted 10 February 2020 - 08:49 PM

Lol, of course it's bloody virtuous to not support puppy mills. How could being against the gross mistreatment of animals be anything but?

You seem to be implying that being virtuous (ethical, moral, having integrity, choosing not to torture animals from profit) is wrong. I'm happy to signal that particular virtue all over the place, as I sit here with my rescue dogs.

It's also bloody common sense not to buy from an industry that lies.

Edited by *Spikey*, 10 February 2020 - 08:52 PM.


#39 SummerStar

Posted 10 February 2020 - 08:54 PM

View Post*Spikey*, on 10 February 2020 - 08:49 PM, said:

Lol, of course it's bloody virtuous to not support puppy mills.

It's also bloody common sense.

Exactly. But those who do support them have to justify it some way even if it resorts to those sorts of posts.

Funny too that just because I won't support puppy farms or BYB and actually care about the history of my dogs and who breeds them, what tests are done etc that I must be a breeder protecting my. "income"... That's the best come back I've heard when I state the facts about others choice to support dodgy breeders.

Am not a breeder never intend to be one, but I know what goes into it, what to ask, what to look for when finding one to get the best possible outcome for my future dog. It's a shame more people don't give a crap about those things and believe what they're told about mutts.

#40 annodam

Posted 10 February 2020 - 09:21 PM

I ain't a Breeder either...

#41 Oriental lily

Posted 10 February 2020 - 09:27 PM

Neither am I .

#42 #notallcats

Posted 10 February 2020 - 09:32 PM

You guys are impossible.... all I hear is blah blah but no solutions.  Despite repeated requests for solutions.  

You are not ethical, or moral by choosing pure breeds, or your pretend "research" into ethical breeders. So do not take the higher moral ground, or judge.

#43 kadoodle

Posted 10 February 2020 - 10:01 PM

Come with me next time I’m helping remove b**ches from puppy mills, and see just how wonderful they really are. I’m sorry, but a breeder who turns out a litter every couple of years in the hope of getting to crufts one day just doesn’t compare. I’m talking ankle deep sh*t, open wounds covered in vermin, dead animals, deformed b**ches locked in cages with filthy puppies, the smell, the flies, knowing that most of the dogs will be euthanised because they’re just too sick and damaged to survive. It’s heartbreaking.

#44 #notallcats

Posted 10 February 2020 - 10:39 PM

I'm sorry you had to see and deal with that Kadoodle.  I'm not naive or without experience in animal welfare.

Just to be clear, I don't think BYB are wonderful or ethical.

I want solutions.  It must be at least 15 years, surely more, since 'oodles have been popular, and nothing has changed.  I see much posturing from pure breed enthusiasts but little in the way of solutions except outright bans, which clearly is too late.   Register the breed, let them be governed like other pure breeds...  why not if dogs' welfare is paramount?  It won't stop the cowboys, as it doesn't with pure breeds, but it will give those wanting an 'oodle' a semi-decent choice at least,  there can be check and balances.

Edited by #notallcats, 10 February 2020 - 10:47 PM.


#45 BusbyWilkes

Posted 11 February 2020 - 12:08 AM

Oriental lily said:

1581327423[/url]' post='18561530']
My Havanese pup ( who does not shed, no ifs or buts, is tested for all known heritable diseases , who has breeder support for life and breeding can be traced back to dogs who originally left Cuba ) costs about $1000 dollars less than a random cavoodle to be found on gum tree or the trading post .

other cavoodles from places that pretend they are legitimate breeders charge DOUBLE the amount I am paying for my Havanese .

I have also be warned that everyone will think my Havanese is a cavoodle as well . Especially if kept in a puppy clip hair cut .

but at least my Havanese who are long lived healthy breeds won’t have any health ticking bombs like heart disease like cavoodles are known for .

I’ve been looking at dog breeds in (possible) preparation for getting a pup. Genuinely trying to understand all the issues. I checked out some basic info on Havanese when they were mentioned in another thread. I read that they originated from the Blanquito and were crossbred with other Bichon types, including the poodle. If that’s true, then the Havanese would be one of the first ‘oodles!

So, cross breeds have historically become registered breeds over time (I’m assuming centuries). Why is that accepted as a breed, when the possibility of other cross breeds becoming a breed isn’t?

Edited to add - so sorry Kadoodle for your experiences of puppy mills and a big thank you for all the great work you do in rehoming these mums and their pups.

Edited by BusbyWilkes, 11 February 2020 - 01:20 AM.


#46 got my tinsel on

Posted 11 February 2020 - 01:18 AM

To register a breed, the dogs in that 'breed' need to have consistency regarding size, shape, coat, and 'look'.

With oodles, even the offspring of a poodle and one other breed, tend to throw to one breed or the other, so even within a litter, one pup could look more, for example labrador than poodle and another pub look more poodle than Labrador, and then there are the ones who look like labs but the size of a poodle and the poodle look-a-likes the size of labs.  Then there are the combinations of coat texture, length of body, shape of head, shape of ears, ad infinitum.  

And then there are the dogs who look like neither breed.

A registered breed has physical standards that the dogs in that breed are judged against  eg. a toy poodle breeder would not be breeding to get larger dogs than the standard allows.

Edited by got my tinsel on, 11 February 2020 - 01:18 AM.


#47 annodam

Posted 11 February 2020 - 05:52 AM

Just to be clear, even though I prefer PB dogs, I don’t believe Registered Breeders should be breeding for Conformation Shows either.  Be it dogs, cats, rabbits, birds etc.
There are far too many animals in Shelters to be adding more dogs into the mix.
I do see comfort in the fact that at least with Registered, ethical Breeders they will take back what they bred if an owner cannot look after their pet for whatever reason.
BYB will wash their hands once they’ve taken the cash.

#48 *Spikey*

Posted 11 February 2020 - 06:13 AM

View PostBusbyWilkes, on 11 February 2020 - 12:08 AM, said:

I’ve been looking at dog breeds in (possible) preparation for getting a pup. Genuinely trying to understand all the issues. I checked out some basic info on Havanese when they were mentioned in another thread. I read that they originated from the Blanquito and were crossbred with other Bichon types, including the poodle. If that’s true, then the Havanese would be one of the first ‘oodles!

So, cross breeds have historically become registered breeds over time (I’m assuming centuries). Why is that accepted as a breed, when the possibility of other cross breeds becoming a breed isn’t?

Edited to add - so sorry Kadoodle for your experiences of puppy mills and a big thank you for all the great work you do in rehoming these mums and their pups.

This is an excellent question.

Those breeds were bred for a purpose, and the breeding 'program' aimed to create a consistent dog that met that purpose. By the time you are 50 or so generations in, a Labrador looks like a Labrador (and behaves like one), and a Havanese looks like a Havanese, and behaves like one. They don't ever throw pups that look like a Bichon or poodle, or some sort of warped version of a Havanese. They're usually sound (breed standards look at muscularskeleto issues for a reason), and are hopefully free from any genetic diseases.

The Aussie Bulldog is/was going through this recognition process. They are getting some success in consistency.

Your oodle cross is done to make money. Not improve the breed, not work on a more healthier option (ie, away from English Bulldogs), and so on.

Solutions have been given for years - when I hear someone saying "all breeders are bad" yadayadayada, and that purebred breeders are responsible for fixing it, I see someone who is invested in maintaining the churn of dead animals in BYB, Puppy Mills and pounds who destroy animals.

The problem with supply isn't your purebred dog - its Reg down the road breeding his staffy with his neighbour's unregistered kelpie. And on it goes. The solution lies with purchasing and education and a huge cultural shift.

#49 SummerStar

Posted 11 February 2020 - 06:36 AM

View Post#notallcats, on 10 February 2020 - 10:39 PM, said:


I want solutions.  It must be at least 15 years, surely more, since 'oodles have been popular, and nothing has changed.  I see much posturing from pure breed enthusiasts but little in the way of solutions except outright bans, which clearly is too late.   Register the breed, let them be governed like other pure breeds...  why not if dogs' welfare is paramount?  It won't stop the cowboys, as it doesn't with pure breeds, but it will give those wanting an 'oodle' a semi-decent choice at least,  there can be check and balances.

Again, no ethical registered breeder that cares about their dogs will sell a dog on mains to someone that isn't a registered breeder of that breed. So therefore the BYB of oodles is buying pet quality dogs and breeding them, usually without bothering to do tests and also going against the purchase contract by not getting their dogs desexed. So they're starting out as deceitful people from the start.

If they aren't buying from ethical breeders then they are buying from another BYB with a whole set of other possible issues. There is no way of "registering" them and making them accountable when they're already starting out by being dodgy to get the dogs they breed together.

A start would be only allow people to breed and sell by being a member of a registered recognised dog body of a specific breed. Otherwise you cant do it. The resources and trouble of making breeding illegal this way would be too much work or bother for those who could police it. I've heard of heaps of neglect cases being reported to RSPCA who do nothing about them so even the main body re welfare of dogs doesn't even bother with cruelty cases sometimes, no one is going to bother trying to stop BYB.

And yes there are good breeders out there who stick to their guidelines and breed good quality dogs and researching, no matter what you think of that, can find them.

#50 ECsMum

Posted 11 February 2020 - 07:12 AM

View PostOriental lily, on 10 February 2020 - 08:24 PM, said:

https://www.petrescu...ngs/search/dogs

nearly 3000 dogs . I would say 5% are purebred .

the market might be saturated but not with purebred dogs .

and what percentage are oodles do you think?




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