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Ladies of leisure stealing child care places???
85 replies to this topic
Posted 10 April 2006 - 03:52 PM
Probably a bit harsh, my heading (but I would love to get a few responses)
I put DD on the waiting list at the nearest community child care centre to me when she was born in AUGUST 2002. I finally got in for 2 days only this year, and that was only because I heavily questioned the length of time on list and the fact that I knew someone had got a place, but had not been on the list as long!!!!
I work 4 days a week, so I relied on Family day care and Monster-in-law to look after DD
What sh@ts me, is the fact that stay at home mums are putting kids into long day care centres say for 2 days. So they drop off at 9.30 (after a little lie in), then head off to the gym/coffee/or go home and relax. Pick up when it fancies.
I am ALL for stay at home mums, but surely they should be using OCASSIONAL CARE?????? Our YMCA gym offers this (and there is a fair bit of it around Eastern suburbs in Melbourne) and I used this when I was on materinity leave. I never had an issue getting DD in because you were not allowed to book more than a week in advance....
The Govt should not allow this, thank God they don't get a rebate/CCB or do they?????
Anyone feel like me!!!!???????????
Posted 10 April 2006 - 04:05 PM
I agree with you...I was kinda desperate for daycare and after repeated phone calls and personal visits to the director of the centre, I got the days I wanted.
Ive had plenty of mums give me dirty filthy looks when I drop my DS at daycare 3 days a week. Im usually dressed pretty grungily, and really doesnt look like I go to work. Thats right, I dont go to work.
I study, full-time. Im either at uni, or at home doing research..which is why I really needed the care. Some days I do pick up DS at 3:30 or so..so that I can have an afternoon with him, as weekends Im usually locked away studying. Some mums look me up and down as if to say that I have no right to a daycare place!
Posted 10 April 2006 - 04:06 PM
Georgie you are very brave
I don't have a problem with SAHMs using childcare however I do undertsand your frustration if you are having trouble.
In a perfect world it would be great if CC was "prioritised" for those who most need it however how do you know a working Mum, just because she is working, needs CC more than somebody else.
Imagine these scenarios for example:
Mum 1 - Non working, 3 children aged DS8, & DD4 & DS2, has no family in Melbourne, Dad often travels interstate and overseas, Mum volunteers at DS8's school and DD4's kinder and puts DS2 y/o in CC for some socialisation for him, respite for her and to have time for herself to "get stuff done" such as shopping, cooking, housework and so on.
Mum 2 - Works 3 days per week, 1 child DD3, has a huge extended family - both her Mother and MIL are available and willing to mind DD, Dad works 9-5 and is a great help in the evening and weekends with DD, housework etc.
Why is Mum 2 more entitled to CC than Mum 1?
Unless you know everybody's situation and the reasons why they are using CC it is very hard to say who should have a place and who shouldn't.
Posted 10 April 2006 - 04:15 PM
you are brave for having a title like this!
Im a mum who has no intention of ever using cc, but cant help making a comment in regards to your post title.
If you were a decent sort of person, you would have some respect for other mums who need such cc facilities, whether they work or not. As far as im concerned, no mother is a lady of leisure until the kids leave home
Posted 10 April 2006 - 04:16 PM
I'm with you on this one. I think it's disgraceful that working mums are on waiting 'day care' lists, whilst SAHM's have their places. It's incredibly wrong.
My sister currently has her DS in daycare three days a week, and doesn't work at all. I find it incomprehensible.
Posted 10 April 2006 - 04:20 PM
I hear you both:
Coriander: I did not want a full length post, studying is different, and need the care on a rgegular basis. Good on you studying.
Sambanbino: I know what you mean, both are entitled to CC, but it's what child care they go for. SAHM under stress can still go to ocassional care centres and get some reprieve!!!
System does prioritise for Single mums, then Aboriginals, then disabilities (not sure of order). Govt should stipulate SAHM's and maybe we will get placed quicker... Imagine if I was desperate to work 5 days in order to survive. I wouldn't have a chance at 5 days.
This debate will continue forever I think!!!
Posted 10 April 2006 - 04:25 PM
I agree with you, Georgie, but I would also urge you not to make judgments based on appearances. I am like Coriander - I am doing a PhD full time which I do from home (and am paid a scholarship to do, so I treat it like a job, albeit one with flexible hours which I undertake dressed in trakkies!). So yes, I look like a dag when I drop my daughter off at daycare and then stroll on home and sometimes during her time there I go out to a cafe (with or without books and laptop) but I still regard myself as a working mum.
Also you might not realise but the number of hours available for the (meagre) CCB is capped depending on whether you are working or not. That said, there are definitely not enough places in our area, let alone good and affordable ones and it should be assessed on a needs basis.
Posted 10 April 2006 - 04:34 PM
I just have to say, I thought this site was about voicing an opinion, and maintaining some level of respect. I believe my comments to be NON personal, so I don't get you insinuating I am an indecent person. Just for the record I pay my taxes, I let old people go in front of me at supermarket aisles (even when I am under the pump), I always place money in the tin for charity, and ABOVE all I believ it's always innocence before being proven guilty. If that's not decent....
My gripe is only with type of child care.
Long day for working mums and ocassional care for SAHM's.
I do not judge women on what they are wearing (I look like a dag going to the office....)
It's when you know (have proof whatever) that it is happening.
I used ocassional day care when I was at home, it worked. I rang up, I booked in and I got 5 hours of "leisure". I even preferred it because it's pay-as-you-go so it was a cheaper option.
BOY, I am BRAVE, aren't I.
NEXT TIME I START UP A DEBATE IT'S GOING TO BE ABOUT WHETHER IT'S POLITICALLY CORRECT TO SWAP SIDES WITH YOUR HUSBAND IN BED???!!!! (Actually, that's not a bad topic is it....)
Posted 10 April 2006 - 04:35 PM
What about me. I'm on maternity leave but have kept my son in care on his one day that he previously went. I'm at home, I can look after him but am keeping his spot for when I return to work.
Posted 10 April 2006 - 04:39 PM
You have a right to your view but as a SAHM I'd like to clarify a couple of your misconceptions....
- like many, many others, I intend to return to work soon and putting DS1 in care 1 day a week gives him and his brother priority for full time places when they come up. It's a very expensive but necessary way of keeping us near the top of the list and hopefully avoiding what you're going through.
- you're referring to one child in your post. Perhaps if you had 2 under 2 (or worse) you might better understand why some mothers need to 'offload' one or more in order to get anything at all done. Occasional care is great for what it is, but as you said yourself it is not a permanent arrangement.
- yes, I get government assistance for my fees.
- it must be a nightmare for centres to juggle all the requirements of various parents, with so many only wanting part-time care these days. My DS1 goes Monday and his place is taken Tue-Fri by a working mum's daughter - she was fulltime then dropped back to 4 days. It's very unlikely that the centre could have found a working mum who only wanted Mondays. This scenario is very, very common.... lots of those SAHMs using 1-2 days a week are in fact enabling lots of other working mums to use part-time care. How do you propose to solve this.... only offer full-time places?
- unfortunately the children of SAHMs don't "lie in" any later than those of working mums. Most of your post was pretty inoffensive but that comment is just effing stupid.
Posted 10 April 2006 - 04:41 PM
Would you please STOP digging the hole even bigger for me (He he)
Actaully I am in the same boat as you, when I have baby #2: do I give up my spot and go to ocassional care???
That will test the DECENCY in me, won't it.
Actually my title is harsh (but if you read I stated it was to get the number of responses up) Can I change it??? I'll change it to "Please Mr Howard can you provide more placements?"
Posted 10 April 2006 - 04:47 PM
You are lucky you are in an area with lots of occasional care places - unfortunately in Brisbane there is a severe lack of occassional care.
I use day care 2 days per week for my DS, and I'm a SAHM. However I know there are plenty of spaces available for working parents. As a PP said, I have lots of friends who have family etc who could help with care, but choose to use LDC.
All our family are interstate, DH works long hours and I would rather have DS in care 2 days per week where he is learning & socialising, than be an unhappy & stressed out mummy. If there were occasional care places I would most definately use them.
I don't want to spark off a whole different argument, but I most definately do not get up at 9.30am, go to the gym or out for coffees. I work bloody hard, I just don't get paid as well as you or recognised for my work.
Need to stop here before this turns nasty.
GeorgieV I feel sorry for you that you can't get the places you need, you obviously have a different situation down there in VIC to what we do. But please don't slander SAHM's as you don't know everybody's circumstances, just as we don't know yours... (you might have an income of $150,000, want to go to work just to socialise with your girlfriends, etc etc!).
Posted 10 April 2006 - 04:48 PM
Well I use one day per week and I don't work and personally I NEED this day, I suffered with severe post natal depression after I bought my Son home from hospital and until he was 13 months old I had never even had 10 minutes away from him as we have no family in Melbourne at all, so to me my one day of child care is so important to me and my sanity. I can assure you that I certainly don't "do lunch" or anything like that, I sleep and do housework and just have a break basically and this helps me to be a better Mum for the rest of week. I think every situation is different and should be looked at as such, not all SAHM who use day care are off doing lunch or playing tennis, for some of us this time is essential.
Posted 10 April 2006 - 04:54 PM
Okay, I am saying this one more time: I am really stressing that it is TYPE of care taken up.
So, I'll take back the comment of "lying in bed", it was more tongue in "cheeky". Perhaps, my sense of humour was inappropriate.
Afterall I have been a SAHM and will be one again.
Watch here for future posts: When I am SAHM, I will probably bat for the other team!!!
Ladies, we are all mums with different gripes and groans. I am glad we are not in a pyhsical forum though!!!
Have a nice day
Posted 10 April 2006 - 05:06 PM
i have my son in care for 1 day per week and i dont feel guilty for taking that place. i use that day to do the grocery shopping and ironing and god forbid, sit down in peace for a short time.
(samantha is not in care) we live 2 hrs away from our family so i am otherwise with my kids 24/7. occasional care doesnt offer long enough hours to get things done and quite frankly i found the level of care to be not as good as that of a long day centre (i have worked in both)
I dont know about other people but i certainly dont get a lie in and my son gets to creche at about 9.30 - 9.45. He gets up between 7 7.30 sometimes earlier, has his breaky, and watches abc kids and then we will leave. I dont rush him. Why? because from the age of 9 weeks he was in full time care while i worked and each morning i was waking him up and feeding him while he was half a sleep and rushing out the door so i get to work. It wasnt fair to him, especially from such a young age. i see you mentioned something about sahm's going to the gym. well, i cant afford to go to a gym and i truly wish that i could (have some baby bulge to shift).
I personally find it bloody hard being a sahm. it was easier for me being at work and looking after other people's kids, than my own.
Bring on 2011, when both of my kids are in school and i can go back to work. whoo hoo
Posted 10 April 2006 - 05:12 PM
Could you please tell me where in the Eastern Suburbs you can get occasional care?
The Occasional cares in my area are permeant. So I have to put DS in every Thursday or if I put him in at my gym - I have to go to gym – I cant just leave him and go and have a Chardy and my nails done.
I want to return to work one day. So like you I have to start somewhere and while you think I am sleeping in - I actually have to take that one - 4 days or whatever is offered otherwise I will never get a place. Just like you.
How can you judge people and know what their situation is? Everyone has a diffent story to tell. I also think the women that you refer to – Sleeping in and going to the gym don’t put their kids in to full day care when they can pay $4 at their gym.
Oh by the way - I pay taxes too - Oh so does my DH.
Gosh I hope that someone doesn’t put you in the same basket when you become a stay at home mother again.
Blame the government not the people.
Posted 10 April 2006 - 06:15 PM
I'm a FDcarer and i have 9 children aged 1-4 yrs over the week & 2 school aged (9 different families).
out of these families there is 5 mums who work & only two of these are full time, then one of the other mums studies at tafe full time (although she's hardly there & puts her child in 5 days a week anyway),so that leaves 3 SAHM's.
i agree that some mums use care that isn't really needed, but they do feel that they need some repite care.
The thing that gets up my nose is the CCB rate! SAHM's who do not work & perhaps don't have a partner get more of a rebate then mums/dads who work full time. Then those parents who do work have to pay out somuch of the wage on day care, just so they can work in the first place!
I have one mum who doesn't work, her child comes 5 days a week & she pays less then $20, then i have another mum who works two days a week & she has to pay $65-$75 for those two days!!!!
I just think it's wrong! espcially if they don't even really require the care.
Posted 10 April 2006 - 06:56 PM
What I don't understand is how come there are SAHMs who are getting CCB for 5 days/week?
When I took a leave of absense and became a SAHM I got a letter stating that DD was only entitled to 20 hours (2 days) of CCB now (even though that's all we ever used anyway)
Are these people just not telling Centrelink that their circumstances have changed? I just don't understand it.
Also, SAHM who don't meet approved activity tests (e.g working or studying) do not qualify for the 30% rebate that is coming in this year, so will not get all the benefits that others do.
Posted 10 April 2006 - 06:58 PM
Just replying quickly at this stage, and i"m not sure if its already been said, but there is three levels of priority in relation to childcare, I think from memory they are:
1. Workforce participants where a single parent, or both parents are employed, seeking employment or studying/training for future employment, are to receive first priority.
2. Those chidren or parents with a continuing diability or incapacity are to receive second priority.
3. Childcren at risk of serious abuse or neglect are to receive third priority.
If this is a childcare centre's priority how could "ladies or leisure steal child care places".
Even if I wasn't working (I am). There are people with real needs, i.e. PND, high needs children, multiple children, or just to have a break, and they deserve places too.
The problem is the system stinks, not enough places in good childcare centres.....
I hope I haven't posted what someone else has said, just didn't have time to read all the posts, will be back later.
Love M and M
Posted 10 April 2006 - 07:59 PM
Yes, i think you WILL be eating your words one day !!!
If it bother's you SO much-STAY AT HOME & LOOK AFTER YOUR DAUGHTER YOURSELF !!!!!
Oh, & i didn't realise 5.30AM was sleeping in !!!! That's what time my youngest 2 get up EVERYDAY !!!!!!
and i DONT believe in gyms !!! - go for a walk !!!
Believe me, us SAHM's do MORE work in a day than you do in a WEEK !!!!!
oh, & i DONT get the rebate cause my hubby "makes TOO much" !
DONT YOU DARE INSINUATE that we "sahm's" get our nails done, go to the gym, play tennis etc. etc. - you dont know a THING about our lives !!!!!!!!!
Posted 10 April 2006 - 08:14 PM
That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard !!
Who says child care places are ONLY for working mums???
Posted 10 April 2006 - 08:20 PM
I just have to say, I thought this site was about voicing an opinion, and maintaining some level of respect
Sorry, but could you please point out which part was more respectful... the title or the bit where you insinuated SAHM's were lazy and dropped the kids off at 9:30 because they had a lie in?
But guess what... this will annoy the heck out of you! Not only am I taking a day of daycare for my child, my CCB rate is also 100%. I pay a grand total of $9 a day for my DD's care.
I am entitled to this rate for 20 hours at the moment although our childcare counts one day as being 12 hours worth regardless of if she is there one hour or 12 hours that day.
Why on earth should I give up my place for you? What makes you think that the half a day a week I currently get away from DD is spent going to the gym and lunch outings with friends? My few hours away from her are usually spent doing mundane tasks like going to Dr appointments which I do every fortnight (an hours travel each way... straight there, appointment, straight back to pick up DD).
The only places around here that offer occasional care only cater for ages 3+ anyway so your plan wouldn't work unfortunately.
Posted 10 April 2006 - 08:35 PM
I had my daughter in full-time preschool for three days a week last year (she's in Kindy now). It was a church run preschool and she absolutely loved it. I think a lot of SAHM's use childcare centers in the year before school because there aren't very many formal 'preschools' in some areas. From the center's perspective, as long as the parent is paying up, I don't think they particularly care whether the mother of the child is working or not. A lot of SAHM's also do work for their husband or family's business during that time (like book-keeping, paperwork, calling clients, suppliers, serving in the restaurant etc) so it's a little difficult for the centers to discriminate based on whether the parent is doing paid work outside the home or not. Even if they are going to the gym or playing tennis, it's their choice really, isn't it?
Posted 10 April 2006 - 08:37 PM
Didn't you know that us SAHM's do f**k all, all day !!!
I work bloody hard-i just dont get paid for it !!!
I teach (volunteer work) Religion at the local public schools 4 hours a week
I run my husband's Removalist Business (we own 5 trucks) 7 days a week: run around & do quotes, chase up unpaid accounts, do ALL the paperwork, accounts, BAS's, worker's pays etc. etc.
I just finished chemo therapy last year for the cancer that i had - i should've just taken my 4 yr old with me so he could watch me getting it done & watch me throwing up all the time!!
I cook pies & cakes (unpaid cooking) for my best friend's pie shop-have done so for over 7 years.
I do Italian Language tutoring twice a week for some local school children-FOR FREE-their parents repay us in ways to do with their plumbing & electrical expertise (i think that's how you spell it?)
I run my household, clean, wash, shop, & cook a 2 course FRESH meal EVERY NIGHT for my 3 children & husband!
I am HEAVILY involved with the 3 different schools my children attend with the canteen, uniform shop, soccer club (i manage both my eldest kids teams)- as most of you may know, this is ALL unpaid.
AND i help look after a mentally ill family member.
AND YOU THINK I DONT NEED 2 DAYS OF CARE FOR MY SON ????
GO JUMP !!!!!!!!
Posted 10 April 2006 - 08:45 PM
i am not sure where you are but in my area working mums are the number one with spots...
We dont get occasional care at any centre or FDC in this area either...
FWIW my son goes to care for six hours once a week, in this time i vacum, mop, food shop, doctors appointments, banking etc etc etc.. not a fun day at all but easier with one child than two...
My hubby works away so i have no help and he earns to much so for my six hours i pay $40!!!!
No wonder so many men thing SAHM do "nothing" when working girls say it to!!! (some not all- sorry to those who recognise how hard it is)
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