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Ladies of leisure stealing child care places???


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#26 vickois

Posted 10 April 2006 - 08:46 PM

I think Heidistar made a good point that SAHM's can get a higher rebate than working mums and that doesn't seem right.

Alanis Grrrl, I actually think that the system is wrong if you get 100% rebate and only pay $9 a day. I'm sure any working mum would love that - it would make going to work much more financially worthwhile.

I'm on maternity leave so a SAHM at the moment and I didn't give up my spot (2 days a week) either, otherwise I'd have no childcare for when I return to work in Feb. I wish I was only paying $9 for it though.

Perhaps I would agree with the OP if she had suggested that SAHMs use preschool care rather than long day care. I know that's only for 3+ olds though.

#27 Cath-In-SA

Posted 10 April 2006 - 08:51 PM

Georgie, you admit the title is a bit "out there".  Have you asked any of the moderators to change it?  Didn't think so.

Have you approached you local or federal MP about your situation?  Didn't think so.

Much easier to b**ch and moan to a group of people who are just like you - trying to do the best for their kids.

Get Pro-Active

#28 ~Kathryn~

Posted 10 April 2006 - 08:59 PM

Vickois - I live on just over $300 a week TOTAL household income. If you want to swap places financially, be my guest! I would love to be in a position where I COULD pay full rate!

#29 Milly Molly Mandy

Posted 10 April 2006 - 09:04 PM

I'm sorry but I'm not quite sure I understand the tone of the following

QUOTE
That will test the DECENCY in me, won't it


Surely you aren't implying holding onto a spot for a 2 year old isn't decent. I would have thought it was common sense. Especially when I'm competing with all those ladies of leisure to get a new spot. wink.gif

#30 Princess.cranky.pants

Posted 10 April 2006 - 09:51 PM

There can't be a lot of occasional care around where I live because I have never heard of it till this thread.

The problem is there is not enough places to go around. Stay-at-home mums are entitled to care just like working mums.

I am a stay-at-home-mum recovering form PPD and complications from dd's birth. There have been times when I could have used some care for dd. I really could have used it when her daddy was in hospital almost dead from heart failure. If there was occasional care I would have used it rather than keep my baby all day at the hospital in the Intensive care ward. There was no family to care for dd. The stress of that time put me in hospital with PPD.

I don't get to sleep in. DD is my alarm clock. If she was in care she would still have me up at the same time regardless of what time I dropped her off. And After I dropped her off it would be off to one of the many Dr's appointments that I have to attend for ether me or my husband or a million other things that I have to do. Yes I could use care and I think that I am entitled to it just as much as a working mum.

#31 Jacks mum

Posted 10 April 2006 - 09:53 PM

I can't be even bothered to read all this but can I just say Child care is just that CHILD CARE.  It is not child care for children of working parents or child care of SAHM it is there for everyone to use whether at home or at work.  


thats about it from me other than you do not know everyones situations and you therefore cannot judge. whose to say that working mum is going to work and then come straight back after work to pick up there child without have a lunch break and coffee with other adults or nip into the shops without someone on their hip.
Oh how I would love to go to the supermarket with out a child in tow. But since I am a 'lady of leisure' I must not get stressed about this
OK jumped in more than I was going to but oh well.

#32 bubbabelly

Posted 10 April 2006 - 10:16 PM

I am happy to admit I'm one of those Mums who swans in in my trackies and 'steals' DC places.

The full story is, I am currently a SAHM that has always planned to go back to fulltime work after 12 months.

In preparation for my return to FT work I did the right thing and put my name on the ridiculously long waiting lists at heaps of DCs as soon as my DS was born.  As a result of the intense competition for places, my son started 4 days of daycare 2 months ago even though I don't go back to work until the end of April.  This is not something we can afford believe me, but the bottom line is, if I didn't take the places when they were offered, we would have lost them, leaving me up sh*t creek without a paddle come April. As it is, I still need to find alternative care for my DS on the fifth day.

As for SAHMs taking a day off, if you can get it ladies ENJOY -God knows we deserve it!  I'm actually looking forward to returning to work so I can have a break - and maybe even use the toilet by myself without an audience!



biggrin.gif

#33 2bluepeas

Posted 11 April 2006 - 10:26 AM

I think its hard to know someones situation without knowing them, but for parents who need to work for financial reasons, it would be off putting to think that childcare places are being taken up by others who (trying to be PC here) aren't in paid work.

I'm a SAHM to a one year old, a uni student, I work in our small business and I'm 23 weeks pregnant with number 2. I don't have any intention of using childcare for a number of reasons, mainly I don't need it and  I can't afford it! In my last few weeks of this pregnancy, I'll be lucky enough to have my mum home to help out as things get tougher physically, I study around my son's nap times and I have a husband who is able to work regular hours at his fulltime job so I know come 5.30pm he will be home. My mum lives around the corner and my brother is a godsend if I need a hand. Lot's of people don't have that and I recognise that.

Having only one child, I don't find that I am frantically running around, working hard all day at all to be honest. I have moments (like now!) where I can sit down and surf the net as my son is asleep. My house is pretty clean, dinner will get served- nothing special but nutritious, I'm going to meet my DH for lunch and take DS to the library. I cant honestly say that everyday for me is stressful, there are some but they aren't very often. I'm sure I'll be singing a different song with two littlies but I don't think all SAHM work 'as hard' as others or as working mums (that's just me though, my son is a very mellow child so I am fortunate in that regard)

I think if I had a special needs child or pregnancy/post partum complications, I would try to utalise childcare at some point so I can understand that (except its rare as hens teeth around here!).

Long story short, its hard to know who is using childcare and for what. And I think all parents (working, studying, staying at home whatever) are just trying to do the best for their family

#34 JRA

Posted 11 April 2006 - 10:58 AM

Interesting discussion.

occassional care. Yeah right. Does not exist around here AT ALL. The only occasional care is that you book in term by term and get 3 hrs a week. BUT the waiting lists for that are CONSIDERABLY longer than day care.

When I was going through breast cancer, mastectomy and chemotherapy, I had to hire a Nanny as there is NO occasional care.


Firstly, I know around here many people have put their 3yos in to daycare as it is very very hard to get in to 3yo kinder. Why should someone who works have more of a right to kindergarten that someone who doesn't. I didn't know "education" was only a right ofthose who worked!


What I struggle with is why do working parents deserve places over Sah parents.

Just look at the discussions etc on here about why people work, many say they would go mad if they sah, they have to go to work to get "adult interaction", to "stimulate their mind" etc etc. So these people deserve daycare over others who want to put their child in day care for exactly the same reasons, except one person works and the other does something else, quite possibly helps at school etc. That is where I have a problem. Who are you to say who is more deserviing?

Someone who works because they want to, (which is MOST people) vs someone who doesn't. Sure many "need" to work, to keep up their mortgage etc, it is a choice, where you live, how much you pay for your house etc etc. You make the choice, you live with it.

thats all from me. A family now with a sahm and a sahd who has never put their child in daycare.

sorry to add:

QUOTE
Believe me, us SAHM's do MORE work in a day than you do in a WEEK

I will just add, being a sahm is the easiest job I have ever had, by a zillion miles.

#35 miriams

Posted 11 April 2006 - 11:01 AM

Nice post Claire. I don't understand why a lot of mums really try to outdo each other with stories of which type of mum (working vs SAHM) works harder. Who cares? A lot of SAHM's do have more free time. There's no reason to feel ashamed of it and try to prove that you're running around like a chook with it's head cut off  to justify why you're staying at home. At the same time, it's not really that daft to be working unpaid in a family business. It's how a lot of families in Australia operate (especially when our parents or grandparents are NESB migrants and from a business background). Our families often do very well from it financially.  You might not get paid for it but the family will do other things like buying a house for you so it all works out in the end. If you're getting exploited, then of course it's probably better to find outside work but it's not only SAHM's who can find themselves getting ripped off in their work situations  rolleyes.gif  By the way, I'm 23 weeks preggy too original.gif

Miriam

#36 Lu

Posted 11 April 2006 - 11:02 AM

QUOTE
So they drop off at 9.30 (after a little lie in), then head off to the gym/coffee/or go home and relax. Pick up when it fancies.


I would love to know how you come about with this scenario. Are you following them to the gym, caf, or home? How in the hell do you know that they have had a lie in?

Why is it, that working mothers, don't believe that SAHM have a right to a spot in childcare? They are after all paying more for the service than someone who is working. I could put it in a way, as those that pay full price, should have first picking of spots, then those that get more hours subsidised. How fair would that be? Not very!!


Maybe if we women spent less time, arguing with each other over who is more deserving of places in childcare, and actively petitioned the government for more childcare places/centers. There wouldn't be an issue of not being able to get a place because some yummy mummy has it.


#37 GothicVamp

Posted 11 April 2006 - 11:22 AM

Im a SAHM and I use two days a week daycare...  ph34r.gif

I have my DS in two days and his sister joins him on Thursday. We use family day care and we get govt assistance on fees ( a very small amount though).

The reason I have daycare is my business, but I was a higher priority when I first started using daycare.

I do have a casual job and I do study. But I do have one day a week to myself to do as I please. Most of the time its housework and paying bills.

So yeah, im one of these mums that annoy you.. rofl

#38 The Princess

Posted 11 April 2006 - 11:22 AM

Sorry, but I have to say this - ever thought that maybe some SAHM's are actually working from home - running businesses or perhaps studying by correspondece?

I am actually doing BOTH - but my DD is in preschool - which I know is different from daycare.


hugs

Liz

#39 tle

Posted 11 April 2006 - 11:28 AM

Canberra Chick, I thought I'd answer your question of "HOW".

You only had 1 child at home and at 1yr old I bet he probably sleeps through the night and maybe even has a nap during the day.  NO wonder you found it easy.  I'd like to see how you go with 5 kids (2 at school).  

Morning are completely taken up with getting babies fed and older kids off to school.  You get home (after doing mail, banking etc) at 10:00 and then have until 2:30 before you have to start pilling the other kids in the car at 2:30 to go and pick them up again.  That gives you 4.5 hours to do the washing (at least 1 but usually 2 loads a day), feed 2 babies and an infant several feeds and snacks, change nappies and bedding, clean the house, vacuum at least once a day, wash and sterilise bottles, deal with crying and tantrums, mop floors, clean bathrooms (thorough clean once a wekk, wipe over daily), clean numerous accidents off the floor from the toilet training infant, do the grocery shopping, pay bills, organise things for Easter (or birthdays or whatever happens to be coming up)etc etc etc.  If you're lucky you can squeeze in 15 mins on EB while you are scoffing down your lunch.

Then, once you've collected the older kids from school its time to help with homework, cook dinner and wash up, bath the younger kids and babies and run bath for the older ones, constantly battle with all kids to stop fighting, dress them for bed, read bedtime stories etc.  Once everyone is in bed (except the babies) at about 8:30 you can take an hour to watch your favourite show on TV (while feeding the babies and getting them ready for bed).  Then it's back to work - time to do the paperwork for DH's business.  On a normal night that means getting to bed around midnight and at the end of month or around GST time that could mean bedtime is pushed back to 2 or 3am.  

You then get up for a round of baby feeds at 3:30am, back to bed 4:30 and try to "sleep-in" until 7am before starting all over again.

I've worked in several senior, quite busy, stressful positions and no, I have never worked as hard as I do now as a sahm.  

I do have a lot of respect and admiration for working mothers because I know only too well that they also work very hard and have to make alot of sacrifices.  I was a working Mum until I had my third baby so I've been on both sides of the fence, and both sides are difficult but both are very rewarding.

I have 1 child in daycare 1 day per week and yes I think I'm entitled to that spot.  Despite the fact that there are no occassional care places around here even if there was I would still want my regular day per week.  It's not "a day off" to bludge around. It's my busiest day of the week because it's when I make all my appointments and do all the running around that I can't do with an infant (and can still only barely do with 4mth old twins in tow).  

Personally, I don't understand why sahm's and workings mums constantly seem to be at battle with each other.  Why can't we all just accept that we each have different circumstamces but that we all work hard and at the end of the day we all reap the rewards of watching our children grow up happy.

Instead of fighting each other why not join together and lobby the govt until there are enough affordable child care places for EVERYONE who needs them regardless of the reason why.

#40 mischiefmaker

Posted 11 April 2006 - 11:36 AM

QUOTE
Believe me, us SAHM's do MORE work in a day than you do in a WEEK

ROFL

Are you freaking kidding?

#41 The Princess

Posted 11 April 2006 - 11:48 AM

What about those SAHM's studying at home by correspondence? THrough no choice of their own!

I am studying and preg with my 2nd baby - we looked into daycare before preschool for DD and there was no and still is no occassional daycare ANYWHERE in my area.

How do you know that these 'Ladies of leisure' are not dropping a child off at daycare in order to go home a STUDY????

#42 Guest_Frankly_*

Posted 11 April 2006 - 11:49 AM

It was my understanding that you get priority if you are working full time!!! I have just changed DS's DCC & was asked if I work & the hours etc. Priority was givien to me b/c I work & b/c they thankfully had a couple of spare days.

I was told about this priority 4 years ago when DS stated going to DC. I was told that if my situation changed to SAHM then my days "could" go to a working person.

That being siad your "tounge in cheek" insinuations about SAHM is a little off. the lie ins, coffee etc.

From MPOV
I worked up until the day DS was born, went back to work after 6 months. 2 years ago I became self employed & now work from home.
I must say that having an office job 7.45am - 5ish (sometimes 6pm), was a hell of a lot harder than being a SAHM!
Now I'm home working & doing household stuff. FROM MY POV I would never complain about being a SAHM doing more than a WM. I know how hard I worked at the office (no time to even go to the toilet when needed, let a lone eat!) & it nowhere near compares to the home!
JUST MY POV from MY situation.

ETA - I'm not saying a SAHM is not entiteld to a CC place at all. If I was a SAHM I would definitely have DS in a CC or preschool. However there are NO government pre-schools in my area so what do you do??? Thankfully the CCC runs a preschool program.

#43 katie78

Posted 11 April 2006 - 12:13 PM

Yeah sure,

If I gave up working full time in a senior corporate position, stopped studying post-grad and stayed home, my life would get all that much harder because SAHM's do so much more work in a day than I do in a week.

Instead of spending 60 hours of working/studying a week AND still spend 2-3 hours a day organising, cleaning, cooking that I already do.   Oh, but I will have to add 4 hours per week that I currently get a housekeeper.

Working : 80 hours per week
Not working : less than 30 hours per week.

Yes, that sounds definitely much harder.   biggrin.gif   Actually, I do the exact same things SAHM's do - playing with the kids, washing, cooking.  For working Mums thats what we do when we are "relaxing" on the weekends.  

Whoever made that comment, you need a reality check.
Or a time management book.   Thanks for the insult !

#44 workingmum

Posted 11 April 2006 - 12:19 PM

Hi

How a SAHM can possibly state that they have more to do than a working mum is unbelievable.

I do exactly the same amount of housework, cook dinners, make lunches, clean up toys, clean bathrooms, washing, ironing etc etc, its just that I do it after work, on weekends, and usually when the kids are in bed.

I also fit in the kids extra-curricular activities in, travel (for work) approx. every 8 weeks, and attend all required school functions (not assemblies), play at the park, catch up with friends etc.

If I want 'time out', I have to pay a babysitter.  This is in top of the $1200 per month I pay for childcare, and $1500 per year I pay for Pre-Primary Fees.

On top of all that, I am a single mother, with little family support (no babysitting etc).

I find it very hard to accept that SAHM's need 'time out'.  Isn't that the job role you took on - to stay home with your children.  Wouldn't it be nice if I could tell my boss that I need a day for 'time out' once a week.

Rach.

#45 Radler

Posted 11 April 2006 - 12:40 PM

QUOTE
I find it very hard to accept that SAHM's need 'time out'. Isn't that the job role you took on - to stay home with your children. Wouldn't it be nice if I could tell my boss that I need a day for 'time out' once a week.


Doesn't annual leave provide this time out?

I work in paid employment 2 days a week, the rest of the time I'm a SAHM. I have 18 month old twins who still don't sleep through the night.  I definitely need time out!  (And to get this I have a regular, paid babysitter, as I really don't like child care centres. I have no family available for babysitting).  

I find it hard to understand why you find it difficult to accept that many SAHMs need time out!  Other workers do!

#46 workingmum

Posted 11 April 2006 - 12:43 PM

Hi

Yes, we get holidays from work, but we spend those with our children....so I don't really understand what you are trying to qualify.

To be honest though, I haven't had annual leave for a long time, because generally the 10 days sick leave doesn't cover the sick leave I need to take between two children throughout the year, and I move to using my annual leave to cover these absences, along with 'Mum on Duty' school days.

Rach.

Rach.

#47 Lu

Posted 11 April 2006 - 12:50 PM

QUOTE
I find it very hard to accept that SAHM's need 'time out'. Isn't that the job role you took on - to stay home with your children. Wouldn't it be nice if I could tell my boss that I need a day for 'time out' once a week.


Perhaps if you spent 24/7 at work, with you boss, trashing the work you just completed, and chucking a few tantrums, you might find it easier to accept!  smile1.gif

#48 miriams

Posted 11 April 2006 - 12:52 PM

Aslan, are those the guidelines for government provided childcare or for all childcare across the board, publicly or privately provided (e.g private companies like ABC etc)?

I definitely agree that publicly provided and publicly subsidised childcare should give priority to low-income dual working (or one person studying) households. I don't see how you can or even should force private companies or HDC situations to give priority to those families though. A business should run like a business and that's what private childcare ultimately is. Whether the person 'needs' it or not is beyond the rationale of providing a service for those who can pay for it ( imagine a car company telling high-income earners that they can't take a cheaper model car because they're reserved for low income households  tongue.gif )

There aren't enough childcare places in many areas because the property prices are too high to justify running/starting one (can't attract cheap workers, parents baulk at higher fees etc etc). Yet most professionals have to work and many choose to live only in those expensive areas. I don't think it can be resolved until the government starts allowing parents to deduct half of their childcare expenses off their taxes (rebate system is too messy). They have to make it attractive to both business (because they are in it for profit) and parents (more parents working means more taxes).

#49 *Shandy*

Posted 11 April 2006 - 12:53 PM

Obviously the rest of us SAHM's are mere mortals and you "workingmum" are quite simply a super mum with your workload.

My one day a week for "time off" is a sanity break. I can be a better mum to my daughter for it.
She has a medical condition which requires frequent drs/specialist visits. I use my day to clean the house, run errands without a toddler. I am a defence partner so often on my own. No family nearby.

I wish people would stop being so damn judgemental when they obviously don't know individual situations.

#50 ~Kathryn~

Posted 11 April 2006 - 12:58 PM

QUOTE
Whoever made that comment, you need a reality check.
Or a time management book. Thanks for the insult !


Ditto for your comments.

I sure being a SAHM is easier for some people. In my case, it was MUCH easier to be at work occasionally serving customers (even the irate ones). People who literally stay at home every single day MAY have it easier, but then there are those of us who treat raising the kids AS OUR JOB. I don't just sit on my ass and watch TV along with doing occasional housework and meal cooking. From 5am when she wakes up until 7:30 when she goes to bed, I am with my daughter constantly and actually *GASP* interacting with her and teaching her things. My job is more like home schooling than child care. We have set activities both in and out of the home and we do not deviate from this to "have coffee with friends" when I feel like it. We have a timetable just like school or daycare does.

I take the job of raising my child very seriously and yes... it IS a job in itself the way I do it (and many others I'm sure).

SAHM does not literally mean a mum who stays at home all day.

FWIW, I am also a single mum, so the 4 hours a week DD is in care is literally the only time I spend away from her and am not involved in her play and learning. If you work outside the home you are generally not in your workspace or involved in your work 24 hours a day. SAHM's are! I also do all the housework and cleaning and meal prep outside work hours (when DD is in bed). It just annoys me that working mums think SAHM spend their days leisurely pottering about doing as they please. I'm sure some do, just as some people working outside the home do actually very little in their job either.




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