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Angel Chat Thread #2
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Posted 17 July 2006 - 07:34 PM
Welcome to our 2nd thread of Angel Chat. An informal support group for those of us who have lost our precious babies. Please feel free to pop in & post anytime.
Posted 17 July 2006 - 07:43 PM
Well done Sonia - couldnt have said it better myself!
I love the dragonfly Sharon (One of my favourite insects but all spiders must die...MUST DIE).
Edited by Marywin, 17 July 2006 - 07:48 PM.
Posted 17 July 2006 - 07:49 PM
Thanks Marywin *bowing*
Well my latest news is that I had a call from the Mater hospital offering us a "debriefing" meeting I guess you could call it. It has now been 3 months since Jackson passed away, and all she could say was sorry there's been a lot going on here, that's why we weren't offered any counselling.
I am not expecting any answers, but hopefully we can get some sense of closure.
Posted 17 July 2006 - 07:57 PM
Sonia that is horrible that they havent offered you any counselling!
*reading Mary's blog and the "GOD" installments*
Posted 17 July 2006 - 08:17 PM
Oh wow Sonia - thats really poor on their behalf. Sounds like they must be under staffed or havent got their procedures in place. And its the people that are suffering (like yourself) that are left hanging. Hopefully you'll have the closure you're looking for.
Edited by Marywin, 17 July 2006 - 08:18 PM.
Posted 17 July 2006 - 08:45 PM
Sonia.......shocking really isnt it. I too left the hospital with nothing. No contacts, no papers, nothing! I really felt dumped so to speak.
I had a baby, he died....oh well thats life.........NEXT. thats how I was made to feel.
I am sorry you were 'forgotten' as well
About 10 weeks after Caelum died the doctor discussed the autopsy report with us, but it didnt give me any answers that I wanted. I really did put too much onto it. I hope with your appointment you come away with some sort of satisfaction.
Feeling a bit weird....I think about my son everyday. Whether in detail or as a passing thought. However, these last few days with this thread and just reading everyone stories, it has made me feel rather sad to the point of dreaming about it.
Arhhhhh You know, replaying everything. Pictures, smells, colours, thoughts. Enough to send you bonkers LOL
Not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing????
In the early days everyone said...
"your so strong" etc etc you know the comments. So when I start feeling like this I wonder if I have some sort of bottled up grief which is lying dormant waiting to 'attack' me. So I have to ask myself, do I continue with this sort of thing or not read and continue on but then thinking will 'it' come to get me later.
No answers required, just writing it down really.
Nothing is simple, even this far along.
Posted 17 July 2006 - 09:08 PM
Welcome to everyone who has joined here too. I am sorry that you ahve to join us but I do hopw that we will be able to help each other.
Belinda (bjc075) No it doesnít make the loss any easier does it. But I think (at least for me) it lessened the blow a bit.
Kelly Where in Vic are you? I cant believe how many ppl have not told me they are pg or have left me till last when bubs has been born. I get more upset that they donít tell me or leave me till last. Its more of slap in the face when ppl do that. I think ppl are scared that I am going to burst out in tears or be upset by it all. Like it will re-open a woundÖ..not that it has ever closed!!! Sorry a bit of a vent there.
Question - Who delivered your angel? It was a midwife. The only time I ever really had an OB there was for anything to do with administering drugs or to pop in and say hi.
sissy You are more than welcome to join us. I understand what you mean about the relationship and maybe not being able to go on with it. I have thought that many times with us. In fact if we hadnít have gotten married before we found out about Jack then we may not have even gotten married. Eventually (I think) leading to the demise of our relationship (even though we had been together for 3yrs by that stage.) It seems like a hard thing to try and explain to anyone. And it all came out when we were talking about fate a bit before. I have never voiced those feelings before.
Trudi I was just reading through some of the hospitals that you have online in Victoria now. Im impressed (I havent been on the site for a while.) I would love to know how Sandy went with getting something on the charts in hospitals (stickers or something like that) of women who had lost a child at any stage. I havent asked her yet but there have been TONES of times that I wish someone knew without me having to explain it ALL over again!
SAM!!! LOL so good to see you here! Thank you. I cant wait for this bubs to come. We should be finding out the sex at our next scan. Really hoping for a boy as this is more than likely going to be our last. Of course it doesnít matter as long as he/she is healthy though. All is looking good so far though.
Rachel Im glad youíre here as well. Sorta feel bad sometimes talking about our kids in the DIGÖ..its a reality (sadly) that not everyone wants to think exists (thatís what I find in other groups at times.)
Megan I am currently working on a scrapbook for Jack. But I will be doing it digitally so all the originals I will be photographing and doing it that way. Otherwise I have all the kids mementos in boxes with their names on them for when they want to look at them. And I look at Jacks from time to time. Although they are so well packed up in a cupboard that I havenít done it for a while now.
bec8620 Numb? Yes. Like it wasnít really happening to me. Then there were times when it hit me like a brick. When my SIL had her son who was due 3 months before Jack. You could have said anything and I would have done it. Im sure I looked like a zombie that day. I wished for so long that he wasnít a boy as he is a constant reminder to me. Some days (even now) that is fine and then some days its hard to be around him. After that first baby being born no one elseís baby really affected me again like that. It was though like you say going shopping and seeing another pg lady that was very hard.
Mary I love the dragonfly as well. I think I have loved it even more since watching that Bruce Willis one that for the life of me I can NOT remember the name of.
kekaco Its shocking really how the hospitals can let you out with no information or support! I would love to be able to do something about it but at the moment I donít have the strength to do it. I suppose its like what I was talking to Trudi about the stickers on charts for maternity wards etc.
I remember reading a thread posted at the top the Misc section. I think it might be entitled EB AngelsÖ..its still there I think as a sticky. Anyhooo I read through that and cried at and through every story I read. And I read right through to the last page. Sometimes I feel like I just need to cry it all out. But it does make me realise that I still have some pretty raw feelings there. And that they do come and get me at times when I donít think they would. And EB has been the best place for me in regards to my loss. I dont know what I would do without it and ppl like in this group!
Edited by sharuth, 17 July 2006 - 09:09 PM.
Posted 17 July 2006 - 09:17 PM
Thank you everyone for welcoming me into this group - this really means a lot.
Sorry guys, no personal replies at the moment. Between crying, answering phones and answering the door and ignoring both the phone and the door, today has been a bit of a bad dream.
Had a really bad day yesterday (hoping it is okay to vent a few negatives here) bad cramping, bad backache (leftovers from labour??). Was worried about the bleeding that was going on, worried that I had to call someone to take me to hospital and look after DS as I was on my own. Ended up having night sweats, really bad but real nightmares, ended up putting my DS into bed with me for some comfort.
Then this morning, went and dropped DS at his grandparents (I share him 50% with my XH). My Ex MIL wasn't very sympathetic towards me (she isn't mean, she is European and sometimes doesn't understand me) and basically I came home and bawled my eyes out. Total doom and gloom for the next few hours, thinking about not having total care of my DS, losing my baby girl and all the other negative things going on or that have happened to me in the past.
Lucky my Dad came over, and I hate crying in front of him because he worries about me (and really I am alright)so this put me in a better frame of mind. Also have negotiated to have more time with my DS during the next week while I am home from work.
Now just going over to a girlfriend's place to have a quiet cuppa with her. Then will come home and try and catch up on the few weeks of sleepless nights I have had.
Posted 17 July 2006 - 10:15 PM
Gently, gently Sissy. You're at the bottom of the barrel, so take your time with your grieving. Its okay to cry your heart out darling. I bawled constantly (still have random crying moments). I cried as soon as I got up, wept in the shower, absolutley howled while I was doing the housework, sobbed when I was cooking tea.......you get the piccy.
Have a nice hot bath with some soothing oils like lavender and just soak. Your heart is shattered, but it will heal.
Slowly slowly......gently gently.
Wish I was there, we'd sit in our pj's, I'd make you a nice hot chocolate drink and we'd dunk marshmellows (except I'd probably eat them all and then raid your cupboards).
Posted 17 July 2006 - 10:27 PM
Sharon, There hasnt been much progression yet with the stickers on medical notes etc.. The girls talk about these sorts of things quite often though. Ensuring the changes are made, trying hard to reach out to all bereaved parents.
Here in Adelaide we are planning to do hospital meetings to talk of the TLC program, bereaved parents are going to come along to talk and answer questions of how their hospital stay felt for them when they suffered the loss of their baby/s. We are hoping this will help continuity of the TLC program and of course be insightful for the medical profession throughout all SA maternity hospitals.
Some of the girls in TLC have taken a stance of reference to genetic termination and asked if we would change the wording throughout the TLC program, written resoures and website to read genetic inducement of labour. The girls reason being that one of them was able to register their babys birth because the medical profession wrote in her notes genetic inducement of labour as opposed to the other who had genetic termination in her notes, that Mum wasnt able to register her babys birth. Both babys were born over 20wks.
I know many of them would love to make the changes for birth registration and they have tried but have not gotten anywhere repeatedly.
We are now working on resources for parents so that all bereaved parents are given written information along with a special teddy bear when they suffer such loss of their babys. Even if the parents throw it in the bin we just hope that the resources of loss and grief information and support/group information is made available for all those that do want and need it.
Kekaco, I am so sorry that you had to leave the hospital with nothing..I know it is not the same at all as being given before you had to leave the hospital but if you would like I can arrange for a very special TLC teddy bear to make his way to you.
Sonia I noticed you mentioned your ~Jackson~ was born at the Mater, TLC is run there but if they did not give you a special teddy I can also arrange to get one to you.
This has been the hard part in ensuring the staff at the hospitals give the teddy bears to all parents who suffer the loss of their baby or babies.
Posted 17 July 2006 - 11:21 PM
Thankyou so much for the offer but its OK now. It is just something that will remain with me.
Actually, I know you dont me at all but I thought of you a few weeks ago while I was in Myers. They had $20 teddies reduced to $5 and 2 ladies went to the counter with about 20 of these bears. I asked them if they were with the Teddy Love Club......they smiled and said no they were buying them for the Christmas Giving Tree in December.
Do you have the TLC in Perth?
Posted 18 July 2006 - 10:16 AM
sharuth i am in Cranbourne and will be having bubs at monash (I dont have a choice lol)
Anyway I have my brain back today and have just realised i am talking to you all like you all know me (not that that is a bad thing ofcourse) but i thought i would tell you my little story about Amala so it does seem like you know me at least a little bit (ok so maybe my brain isnt back 100% yet )
So here goes:
I had to give birth to Amala at 22 weeks because of severe abnormalities. My waters broke at 13 weeks and i didnt realise because by that stage i hade already been bleeding for a month and just thought i'd wet my pants
So i thought apart from the bleeding i thought everything was fine i had a scan at 19 weeks and was told that there was very very little fluid around Amala so i was sent to a specialist who checked that her kidneys were working they were.
I then made a trip to the OB the next morning who told me that my waters had broken sometime ago and that i was at risk of a bad infection and that if i went on to carry to full term the baby would die anyway.
I was told that she had 2 club feet her arms would be fused to her body and she would have numerous bands around her body and That she just wasnt growing. So we had to make the horrible decition to be induced.
So my beautiful little girl was born at 2.25am 17 August 2005 weighing 380 grms and 27 cms long at 22 weeks gest.
So that is my story in short just thought i'd get it off my chest It has made me feel better too (not having the best week so far its been on my mind for the past few days)
hugs to all
Posted 18 July 2006 - 04:16 PM
Hi girls geez i haven't been in here for a little while and we are on #2 already geez
I would say welcome to the newbies but i hate to have to say welcome because it is not in the best circumstances. I look forward to however being there and helping anyone where i can it helps to talk and vent get angry and scream trust me i still do it!
As for counselling after having my boy yeah right got sent on my way by being walked out of the hospital by family charge nurse and the funeral director and got led through delivery to get out to the lifts charming? got offered no counselling whatsoever? I still to this day wish i was offered some sort of counselling! SANDS came up for about half an hour and spoke to me and DP but nothing eventuated from that in NZ they have next to no suppport groups anything it really does suck and i wish i could do something to help other people that sadly do go through this!
Well must go have to go get something done for dinner again or we won't eat lol!
love to you all
Posted 18 July 2006 - 06:08 PM
i can't believe the strories some people have about not being offered counselling. I'm in SA and had my baby at the WCH. The staff was great in supporting us through the labour and the days following it. I was given the numbers of support groups and the counsellor in the hospital made us an appointment so we could check in and collect photos taken of our baby. A blessing service was also arranged by the counsellor for us in the hospital. Perhaps being the biggest womens hospital in Adelaide, they see far more of these cases and are therefore trained better in how to deal with them. It is certainly a lonely time and i am amazed by the strength you all have especially when "going it alone".
Mytwinangels:I managed to find the info on the support group i attended. I havn't been in years but i am pretty sure the contact details are the same as i get quarterly newsletters sent out. The group is SAFDA - Support after fetal diagnosis of Abnormality. "The group supports parents and families following the loss of a pregnancy and/or baby after the diagnosis of abnormality. The group is run by parents who have experienced this type of loss, supported by social workers and genetic counsellors".
Meetings are held at the Womens and Childrens Hospital once a month. Contact person is Julianne 8278 3317 or
Anne (WCH) 8161 7375 (Hope these numbers are still current!)
I definately agree with you on changing the terminology of genetic termination - i really hate saying it and always refer to Rohans birth as an induction. Also i love the display cabinet you have for your girls. If you dont mind me asking - where did you get those beautiful urns. I would love to put Rohans ashes in something like that. I must confess he is still in the plastic box the funeral home gave us with his plaque (sp?) sticky taped on !
Sharuth:It is hard to find an "appropriate" place to talk about our angels. Most first time mums (and i was guilty of it once!), have that "it will never happen to me" shield up. I can understand it is not something people like to be confronted with, but it is reality. It makes it hard when people ask how many kids i have. Do i say 2 and avoid questions or do i say 3 and risk "upsetting" someone - i usually just say 2.
Well should think about starting dinner. Kids are turning into animals...
ETA:Am not sure if i should disable my ticker or not? I can understand in some cases it isn't appropriate but i'm not sure about this thread. What is other peoples opinions on that? I will leave it on this time to allow people to comment - sorry if it upsets anyone.
Edited by Rachella77, 18 July 2006 - 06:11 PM.
Posted 18 July 2006 - 07:53 PM
I am more than happy for people to keep their tickers, as long as everyone agrees.
Trudy we never saw anyone at the hospital, not even anyone from the premature babies association that are around. Thankyou for the offer of a teddy, but we received one from the beautiful EB'ers & the gorgeous people at myteddy.com.au.
It is a wonderful thing you are doing, only a mother who loses a child knows what it's like to leave a hospital with empty arms
My question is how do you all answer how many children you have, I see it has been touched on. I hate answering people, as I have to say that Jackson is my child, I have 2, but then see people recoil when I say that he is no longer with us. How do you all handle that? Or do you only say how many children you have with you?
I also want to say how glad I am that this thread has been started, it's nice to come in here & see happy things also, instead of coming in here knowing it's full of sadness. Thankyou Marywin for starting this!
Edited by ~Sonia~, 18 July 2006 - 07:55 PM.
Posted 18 July 2006 - 08:29 PM
In the early days when I just had my first son I use to say 2 as I wanted to talk about Caelum at every opportunity.
Then as time went on I was more selective about who I told. Then I started to phrase it as I have HAD 2 children rather then I HAVE 2 children. Yes I know a play on words.
I use to feel so guilty for not including him when people asked how many kids I had. I even use to cross my fingers when I lied and never mentioned him. The guilt!!!!!!!!
DH didnt like me including him. He said it was selfish of me to make someone feel uncomfortable. That for the most part these people were asking as part of small talk and I really shouldnt mention him as it was just too shicking for some people. Of course I got angry......but that was a long time ago now.
Today I now have 4 children and another son who passed away.........or I have HAD 4 sons and a daughter. If they want to ask questions then I will say the truth. I think I recall a saying something along the lines of.....If you dont want to know then dont ask.
I kind of lost my compassion as to how other people felt. I was sick of worrying about how other people felt as I thought noone really cared about how I felt. It was probably the bitterness 'stage'.........but now I say I had Caelum with a sense of strength in my voice not with a sound of dread or uncertainty.
Do what feels right!!
Mum to 4 that walk and 1 that soars!!!!!!!!
Posted 18 July 2006 - 08:43 PM
Aw shucks - thanks Sonia.
You know, I take my hat off to mums like Mizz Izy, who 20 yrs ago didnt even get a brass razoo when they lost their little one.
I knew of a father who 20 odd yrs ago lost his little baby girl (born still) and he and his wife didnt even get to see her once she was born. She was just whisked away. They werent even told where she was buried. It was the way things were handled back then I guess. Me personally - it would have simply destroyed me.
But I'm happy to say, he found out where she was buried 5 yrs ago and they bought their little angel a headstone.
And now my chicken is burning......Ah crap!
Posted 18 July 2006 - 08:57 PM
It is so sad hearing things like this, how could they not be given the chance to acknowledge their child
Laura said for the 1st time yesterday Jackson (she normally says Jack). He is on my desktop pic, she was pointing & not only saying his name, but saying brother (or brudda, lol!).
It was so sweet it brought tears to my eyes, not only that he's gone, but that she knows who he is, and I will go out of my way to make sure he's not forgotten.
Posted 18 July 2006 - 09:08 PM
At school when my boys have to do a family tree they always include Caelum in the clouds!
I did have to explain that one to the teachers LOL
Posted 18 July 2006 - 09:10 PM
Awww that's so sweet! I must remember that! We have explained to Laura that Jackson is in heaven, but I think she's too young yet to understand.
Posted 18 July 2006 - 11:46 PM
My 2 Princesses - thank you for your lovely email.
Marywin - Thank you for the mental picture of sharing hot chocolates, marshmallows and being in pj's. Funnily enough, I wore my pj's to my friends house (slippers as well). I could get away with this as her hubby is away at the moment.
WOW!!! I must admit I am blown away with the strength that you guys have. Especially those of you that have not received the support, counselling and recognition of what has happened to your babies.
I had my baby at KEMH and have to say that overall I was really impressed with the care I received, especially from the Chaplain. The nurses were pretty good and my specialist Dr was absolutely fantastic. Everthing was explained to me, I received lots of pamphlets to read over, I felt it was okay to ask lots of questions, especially the "stupid" ones. I received lots of opportunities to see, hold, touch and be with my Baby Ruby.
To take home from the hospital I had a memory box (made and donated by the Folk Art Society). In it I had a white teddy, a memory book that contained beautiful prayers, readings, contacts and most importantly foot & hand prints as well as beautiful photos. The nurse caring for me, completed all the details regarding Ruby's birth.
The Chaplain was basically on call and came to see me a number of times and did a blessing ceremony for Ruby on the morning of me leaving. I also had and still have the Genetic Counsellor contacting me and talking me through different issues.
On a more personal note, had a great night with my girlfriend and came home and had a sound sleep too!!! Went and picked up my gorgeous boy this morning first thing and we had the bestest day ever together. Really don't know what I would have done without him!! We made muffins together, did gardening, then came inside had our bath/shower, lunch and then he and I read books together on my bed and had a sleep.
My Cam then drew a picture of me, and a picture of Baby Ruby in his arm's (he keeps asking constantly if he can hold "him"). The picture is mind blowing as it is very clear and everything is in proportion. I have told him that it is the best picture ever and I am going to get it copied. Cam has definately been the best therapy for me.
In a way it is comforting reading that your angel baby's are constantly in your thoughts. At the risk of sounding dumb, my biggest fear is that I will lose the memory of my little baby girl. (Even having lots of tears as I type this.) I suppose this is the guilt part i am going through at the moment, but I want her to be part of me and my life so that even though she isn't physically here, she is still here. Yeah, just so afraid of "losing her". Sorry don't know if this makes sense or not, but can't explain it any other way.
Heading off to bed now - still got lots of zzz's to go until i catch up on all that lost sleep.
Edited by *sissy*, 18 July 2006 - 11:48 PM.
Posted 19 July 2006 - 12:47 AM
Sissy....Believe me you will never forget your baby! Your baby will always be apart of you.
I was told by a doctor that in the mothers blood is traces of her babies blood (apparently). In a strange and bizarre way I feel I have a physical part of him with me (now we are talking strange LOL)
OH...and I dont consider myself strong, never had. I am one of the 'oldies' now but in the early days I just dealt with it the best way I knew how. Some days I could have just driven off a cliff other days I was smiling and I didnt even realise it until later (sounds like you had one of those days today). I suppose as cliche as it sounds, just have to take each day as it comes. Dont be surprised if you are cruising along then all of a sudden hit a wall. For me 6 weeks, 12 weeks, 6 mths and of course the 1st birthday/anniversary were the hardest to get through.
Hold your head up high!!! You are the Mum of 2 beautiful children. One has just left you for a short while. Things will be OK........I promise. PM me if you like.
(Mum to Caelum 26/02/99 fullterm. Died 33 minutes due to Massive Feto-Maternal Haemorrage)
Edited by kekaco, 19 July 2006 - 12:50 AM.
Posted 19 July 2006 - 01:28 AM
Kelly - just wanted to say thanks for sharing your story. Sending big fluffy clouds your way.
Sound sleep to all
Love to all the angel babys and their mummas.
Posted 19 July 2006 - 11:15 AM
It sounds like the hospital took good care of you, All I got was "Do you want to see your baby cause it needs to go into solution?" As I had her on a public holiday God I hated that hospital pitty I had pretty much the same response 10 months later in the same hospital. I think my anger is part of why I have struggled to come to terms with everything.
Oh I think I am having a sad day, no one ever acknowledges my babies, they just think I'm lucky to have a living one
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