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Non-vaccinated kids discussion #2

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#51 imagine22

Posted 08 March 2007 - 02:11 PM

Lisa_S regarding Factor V leiden - (not wanting to start and argument but i wanted to add in case other factor v leiden find this by searching) this is not a valid argument for not vacinating with vitamin k. there is no reputable studies showing any risk for vitamin K for factor V leiden. My DD has homozygous factor v leiden (ie much more serious than the usual heterozygous version) and her specialists unaminously said no risk due to the factor v leiden of the vitamin k given to newborns and she had it without incident.

#52 tkbw

Posted 08 March 2007 - 02:29 PM

Sorry, haven't read all the posts but just have to reply to this-
My child, who is immune deficient, could have died having been exposed to non-vaccinated children prior to his 2 month shots.

You do realise that vaccinated children still harbour the disease don't you? It's quite common for vaccinated children to become ill with any of the diseases they've been vaccinated against.
If you have an immuno-compromised child, then I suggest you take the usual methods such as avoiding high-risk areas ie: childcare centres, schools, shopping centres.
Sorry to hear of your situation.

My DS has started his vaccination schedule now at 7 months, and even still only getting the Diphtheria, Tetanus, Pertussis and Polio injections.

I don't disagree with vaccinations, I just believe they're commenced to early. I haven't been "talked out" of my decision, but rather medical professionals have advised me about the vaccinations I have chosen for my child.

To be honest, the only reason I commenced his schedule now is because we're going OS to a country where these diseases are present.

#53 tkbw

Posted 08 March 2007 - 02:39 PM

I just want to be able to have the choice to use separate vaccinations. Has anyone considered taking their kids to New Zealand to be vaccinated separately?

Why, when you can do it here in Australia?
You can request whatever vaccine you want, you may have to pay- but you can still request whatever combination (or not) that you want.

Here's a list of different vaccines available in Australia
In my circumstance, I chose the Infarex-IPV over the Infarex Penta because I don't think it's appropriate for my son to vaccinated against Hep B when he is extremely low risk.

#54 mollykathleen

Posted 08 March 2007 - 02:53 PM

how do you guys go with the whole school thing? has anyone had problems putting their children in schools who arent vaccinated? and what about day cares?

#55 tkbw

Posted 08 March 2007 - 03:26 PM

I haven't personally been affected, but I know of other families who simply remove their child (at the mention from the school) in the case of an outbreak as a safety measure for the unvaccinated. That's right, an outbreak in a vaccinated school wink.gif
As someone has stated previously, a school or daycare centre cannot reject your acceptance purely based on your vaccination status.

[OT] I know of many people who encourage things like measles and chicken pox to pass within their social circle and/or family. The whole idea to get the disease out of the way while young and ensure they don't have increased risks of contracting the disease as an adult.

#56 ~kylie~

Posted 08 March 2007 - 03:40 PM

how do you guys go with the whole school thing? has anyone had problems putting their children in schools who arent vaccinated? and what about day cares?

Nope, no problem. In fact, if you read my earlier post, you will see that I was told by my DD's school that "No one looks at these anyway"  rolleyes.gif

#57 Lisa_S

Posted 08 March 2007 - 06:16 PM

There shouldn't be any problems with schools or daycare, and if problems are encountered, it is the law that they CANNOT deny you enrolment based on vaccination status. Same for Centrelink, they can't deny you the "immunisation" payment if you did not vaccinate.

imagine22, maybe there are no studies yet because FVL was only discovered a few years ago and nobody has bothered to do a study on it in relation to neonatal vit k administration yet.

Could anyone say in ALL certainity that there is absolutely NO risk of giving vitamin K to a baby with FVL? The purpose of vitamin K is to encourage blood clotting - is that something you would want to see given to someone that has a disease that promotes clotting and slow break down of clots?

Nobody knows the answers yet. What you don't know won't hurt you... or will it? There used to be no "reputable studies" that conclusively proved that smoking causes cancer. Of course there were smokers who DIDNT get cancer. However that doesn't change the fact that smoking does cause cancer as is evident today with the amount of research done over many years.  

Some doctors are erring on the side of caution and advising that vit K is delayed til after clotting tests are carried out on the baby. http://www.babyworld.co.uk/faq/individualf...=&question=2794

Is Vitamin K really needed if the procoagulant effects of factor V Leiden are balanced against decreased levels of factor v? There's a study out of Finland looking at this now but its only accessible through paid subscription.  It did mention that thrombin regulation in newborns remains "incompletely understood". Basically they have nfi at this point just like they have nfi of the extent that vaccines affect the developing immune systems of babies. People are starting to question vaccines now, obviously something smells fishy!

Its not much at this time, but for others who are looking for more information on FVL/Vit K;

http://www.fvleiden.org/publications/midwife.html - Jennifer Rosenberg also wrote more stuff about FVL on Midwifery Today. That's where I first heard of FVL. http://www.midwiferytoday.com/enews/enews0219.asp touches on vit k and FVL.

#58 sebtobi

Posted 08 March 2007 - 08:42 PM

Lisa - have you got anything on Vit K and thrombocytopenia?  DH has idiopathic thrombo, still trying to get onto his hematologist regarding if she thinks it could be inherited.  Any research links would be appreciated.  Thanks for all your sensible information biggrin.gif

Kirsten - another chiro wife here, there are 3 of us now in this link.

We won't be doing any other vaccinations, but concerned about inherited clotting disorders and vit K.

Here is one more question.  How did everyone go with the baby health centre nurses and not vaccinating?  Dreading the whole blue book situation.  Is it best just to avoid the centres all together?

#59 ~kylie~

Posted 08 March 2007 - 08:46 PM

I depends on the nurse. Mine is fine - told her I'd seen my GP etc.

Any of you chiro wives in Melbourne? I'm after a new chiro!

#60 tkbw

Posted 09 March 2007 - 04:12 AM

Here is one more question. How did everyone go with the baby health centre nurses and not vaccinating? Dreading the whole blue book situation. Is it best just to avoid the centres all together?

I've only seen the CHN once, and she was fine.

#61 ~Sorceress~

Posted 09 March 2007 - 06:47 AM

Hi Colleen,
Here is one more question. How did everyone go with the baby health centre nurses and not vaccinating? Dreading the whole blue book situation. Is it best just to avoid the centres all together?

It depends on the nurse I'm sure, but over four children in three different states I've yet to find one who made me feel bad about not vaccinating. Of course, if you're not getting vaccinations and you're confident with your parenting, you don't really need to see the baby health centre nurses much LOL, but if you do, just try to look on it as an educational opportunity for them and you! wink.gif

I've even had a baby health nurse give me some additional references to more pro-choice vaccination material! I think because they're in the front line and actually *see* a lot of the vaccination injuries first hand they're very understanding about people making different health choices.

For my fourth child, I had weighing etc done by the local pharmacy, then when I needed the conscientious objector form signed for the maternity allowance I went to the local baby health centre for the first time and they couldn't have been more helpful despite previously only having seen me at the local "paint and play" groups original.gif.

#62 mrgumpy

Posted 09 March 2007 - 10:00 AM

You can request whatever vaccine you want, you may have to pay- but you can still request whatever combination (or not) that you want.

I suppose that if there were a provider of separate vaccines instead of the MMR in Australia (and I'm yet to find one), providing strains I thought seemed OK on the evidence (eg Jeryl Lynn pref), I'd definitely be interested.  But from the link you provided, it seems to confirm that only MMRII and priorix are 'registered'.  If anyone knows of a source of single vacc in Australia please let me know!

#63 tkbw

Posted 09 March 2007 - 12:48 PM

However, monovalent measles, mumps and rubella vaccines are available on a doctor's prescription from chemists.

This is quoted from the link below. You can request any vaccine you like. As I said, there may be costs involved with certain vaccines.http://www.health.nsw.gov.au/policies/PD/2.../PD2005_033.pdf
The product name of the monovalent measles vaccine is Attenuvax®, manufactured by Merck.
The product name of the monovalent mumps vaccine is Mumpsvax®, also manufactured by Merck.
the product nmae of the monovalent rubella vaccine is
Meruvax® II, also manufacture by Merck.

Edited by ~*Kathy*~, 09 March 2007 - 12:50 PM.

#64 rachelP

Posted 13 March 2007 - 08:36 PM

Hi there, just wanted to add, we have had no problems with MCHN, in fact she has been very supportive. She signed my conscientious objector forms for me for both kids. Sadly she has moved to another area  (lucky you Isis!) and I can't be bothered to drive out and see her when i used to just walk up the road. original.gif

#65 melapril

Posted 15 March 2007 - 09:08 AM

hi everyone

another non vaccinater here. my son is 18 mnths and i want to be able to claim the rebate, how do i go about  getting a conscientious objector form??  whereabouts do i get it from? who signs it? what do i do with it once signed?

thanks so much!!!


#66 ~Sorceress~

Posted 15 March 2007 - 12:26 PM

Hi Mel,

I got mine from the local MCHN. In the past I've got one from a GP and that was much more of a battle - if I were cynical, I'd say it was because if a GP's vaccination rate drops below a certain percentage they lose their "vaccination bonus" from the government!  wacko.gif

Anybody else think it's bizarre that financial advisors are expected to tell you if they have a financial incentive (such as a bonus) for pushing you towards a certain decision, but I've yet to hear of a GP that told their patients they were paid extra for sharing your vaccination history with the government *and* for vaccinating a high percentage of their patients?

#67 daffodil27

Posted 22 March 2007 - 11:49 PM

well for the record... my SIL is a chiro!  tongue.gif

So had my baby girl and the care I got was really great. The Pediatrician was pretty good about the non-vacc thing and told me it was personal choice but still spoke to me like I knew nothing, I just listened to him figuring I might learn somthing but it was nothing I didnt know... he was quite interested in what Dr in Australia think about me non-vaccing. generall he was pretty good although he did hound me a bit about the Vit K but I was firm and thanked him for his professional advise. I did get Dh to call his mate (Mr. "well adjusted babies) just to talk us through the whole Vit K thing and to reassure us we were making the right decision.

Anyway, she is healthy and thriving right now so we are happy with what we decided...

will be back when I have something more to contribute...  cool.gif

#68 Guest_tash83_*

Posted 12 April 2007 - 10:21 PM

I am not a non-vaccinater as such but I delayed DS2 MMR for 6 months. Only reason I finally got it done at 18 months was because centrelink cut me off for not doing it.

What's this about? Can they cut you off the parenting payment?

#69 ~Sorceress~

Posted 13 April 2007 - 11:27 AM

No, they definitely can't cut you off from any payments for not immunising! But if you have to have your child either fully immunised or have a conscientious objection lodged by the time you claim for the maternity payment.  biggrin.gif

I suspect there are some Centrelink staff who like to play demi-God and don't always let people know about the conscientious objection option!

#70 daffodil27

Posted 16 April 2007 - 04:30 PM

Anyone got some good info or advise on hep B?
I know you can contract it through sex etc and intravenously and saliva... but my understanding is that it takes quite a lot of saliva????
What are the chances of catching it say from one childs toy to another that goes into the mouth?

Just need to get my facts right before I go into battle with the doctor  tongue.gif

ok off to read up some!

Edited by daffodil27, 16 April 2007 - 04:33 PM.

#71 daffodil27

Posted 16 April 2007 - 05:34 PM

I found this on http://www.hepnet.com/charge/chap4.html
While it is probably rare, transmission through saliva is thought to be possible for hepatitis B. It has not been proven that you can get hepatitis B from exposure to tears, sweat, breast milk, urine, or faeces, but the virus has been found in low concentrations in these body fluids

#72 =Araminta=

Posted 22 April 2007 - 04:00 PM

Hi All
I need some advice.  DS and DD1 have been vaccinated, pretty much because it is generally what you do, no thought really went into it, and DH is all for it.  However with DD2, she is now 8wks, and I just don't feel it is right to vaccinate her now and possibly not ever.  DH is not supportive he is all for it.  What are some good web sites to look at etc to get more info?  And what about homeopathic vaccinations?  We live near a homeopath who specalizes in homeopathic vaccinations.

#73 daffodil27

Posted 22 April 2007 - 04:07 PM

hey Jennybear - congrats on your home birth!

here is a good website to start with http://www.avn.org.au/ they also have links for research etc.

I am sure if you visited your homeopath and had a chat she would have info for you and books you could lend etc and I am sure woud be more than helpful to talk you through it all.

Good luck with your decision and keep us posted with any interesting information you find.

#74 ~kylie~

Posted 22 April 2007 - 05:01 PM

Hi Jenny

I hope you find the answer you're after. Congratulations on your homebirth, I must have missed your announcement. original.gif

#75 daffodil27

Posted 23 April 2007 - 11:52 PM

My good friend has written a book called Well Adjusted Babies and has started blogging on parenting and family health - some great reads... check out her blog here.

night all!

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