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Non-vaccinated Kids Discussion #3


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#51 nicolelh

Posted 11 October 2007 - 01:29 PM

So this is what I"m thinking I will do with DD. I'd love some of your comments on the things I can't decide on.

DD will definitely not be having:
-Hep B
-Varicella
-HPV vaccine - whether or not they start offering it to younger kids, which I predict they will like they did with Hep B.

She will not have MMR but if we are able to split them up (going to NZ if necessary) she will have measles at 2 years, or whenever she finishes b/feeding, which ever is later. I had the actual measles when I was 19 so I have given her much better passive immunity than a vaccinated only mother. (I was vaccd too but got it anyway.)

I will try to get her to catch rubella but if she hasn't by 18 years she can have a separate rubella shot before she gets married.

She won't be getting a mumps vacc.

I am intending to take her travelling fairly widely, probably to places where polio is a possible risk, so I think I will get her IPV, but I just can't decide when to start - 6mnths, 12 mnths or 2 years?? or wait until we are planning a holiday? what do you think?

I am wary of DTaP and if it wasn't for pertussis, I wouldn't get it. but I had whooping cough when I was little and it was absolutely horrible - my cousin, 20 years, just had it too and was so sick - so it is still around.

I was probably thinking of starting it at 6 months, maybe a little later. my major issue with it is I hear it contains formaldehyde which I'm severely sensitive to. so I'm really not taht keen. I wish you could just get aP on it's own, without the DT.

I can't decide at all about HiB (which, by the way, you can get separately to HEpB if your doctor tries to tell you you can't - he's wrong.) or about pneumoccocal.

I am now less inclined to get HiB as I just read that b/feeding gives pretty good protection against it.

what do others think about the risks v benefits of hib and pneumovax?

She won't be getting any boosters for anything, EVER, unless her titres have been checked and found insufficient, and the disease is still a risk for her.

rotavirus is the hardest for me to decide. at first, it was the only one I was going ot get as I figured it was the disease tha twas most common. BUT - my lactation consultant told me that hardly any b/fed babies catch it, except for at day care, which she won't be going anywhere near.

the immunisation nurse agreed that they don't get it often, even though the milk doesn't provide any protection (explain that to me!?!?!?!) Anyway, my doctor gave it to her, even though it was a week late, technically.

she got bad diarrhea for 2.5 weeks. I think she is allergic to sugar through my milk, and seeing it's in a sugar syrup, it's hardly surprising she got sick.

But I can't decide about the next two doses. she isn't severely allergic yet - but could become so with more exposures. having said that, reactions to the first dose are common, but the 2nd and 3rd not nearly so much, so part of me thinks, having been through the worst of it, we might as well take the plunge and get the whole lot. the other part thinks taht one dose probably gave partial immunity so I should just live with that.

complicating the issue is my own MORBID fear of vomiting and so it was a partly selfish decision to get the rota vacc so that she couldn't get it at school and pass it on to me. I feel so terrible about that.

so anyway, others thoughts would be appreciated.

on another issue, I am dissappointed that most kids are vacc'd for chicken pox and rubella at such a young age now, it's so hard to let your kids catch it rather than vax. I had rubella - very mild - and would much prefer her to catch it than a vaccine. ditto with c/pox. I was wondering whether or not there are any groups around where parents share information about kids that currently have these diseases so that we can expose our kids while they are nice and young? (some people are oging to read that and think it's horrible, aren't they?) I think that hoping they never catch it ever is a pipe dream though, much better to get it young. did everyone here's mums used to take them over to play with the neighbours to catch chicken pox??

this is what I"m talking about. I would certainly be keeping my ears out for kids currently with c/pox when mine are growing up so I can send them over to play, but I doubt there'll be much of it going aroudn thanks to the over vaccination now.

#52 ReneS

Posted 15 October 2007 - 02:08 PM

2beautifulgirls   I too recieved my copy of "Just a little prick" on friday and was wondering the same thing.
I'm not quite sure either.
It cost them just over $11 just for postage, and then it said the book was worth $40, so still thinking on how much to send.

I've only just started reading it and already horrified how the hospital treated mothers back then. I know there alot of places that are still bad, but at least they can't just do what they want when they want anymore.

#53 blissfulqueenb

Posted 15 October 2007 - 04:52 PM

Hey guys, we visit a GP who is by donation, and I found the easiest way to determine what I should pay would be to ask them.  I thought I would simply ask the Butler's what they would think is an appropriate donation for the "Just a Little Prick" book - this is the response I got:

"A copy will wing its way to you tomorrow.  Iím sure youíll be able to sort out in your own mind, what is an appropriate donation to further the work of the trust.  Itís not a donation for the book.  That is provided as a community service, and you are under no Ďobligationí"

Thought this might help, but I guess it doesn't really!  

Cheers
Carla

#54 2beautifulgirls

Posted 16 October 2007 - 09:58 AM

ReneS- I am about half wat thru the book now and WOW it is real eye opener. Makes Non vaccining kids all the more a ver good and informed decision.  I too was stunned at how they treated Hilary in hospital, she is one strong women indeed.
My GP was really good when i took DD3 for her 7 week check up and i said i was delaying and maybe not vaccing al all.
She said she would send me some info and sign the form. original.gif

#55 PetraMojo

Posted 21 October 2007 - 05:40 AM

I need some help.

We have not  had Darcy  vacc except with Vitamin K - I only made up my mind not to vacc when he was 4 weeks old (but something told me not to get the Hep vacc at birth).  

Now that he is walking and mobile and in the dirt, I am feeling that I should maybe get him vaccinated against tetanus because it is in the soil spores.  I went to my GP and was told it is only part of a triple vaccine now and even if they can use the adult vaccine - which she doesn't believe they can - it is a tetanus/diptheria vaccine now.

I am feeling a bit frustrated and overwhelmed.  I got the big lecture but stuck to my guns.  I asked her if surely as a medical practitioner she must question the amount of children who are now on the autism scale and who are anaphylactics (spelt that wrong).  She said 'but you were immunised' to which I replied that I had had 9 vaccs and most of them after 5yrs old.  If you follow the vacc schedule now they have 39 hits of diseases pumped into their little bodies (some of them part of a triple vacc) and that just seems extroadinary to me.

Do you guys worry about tetanus??  

Any advice would be appreciated

Thankyou

Where do I get the book 'just a little prick' from

#56 PetraMojo

Posted 21 October 2007 - 09:45 PM

http://www.vran.org/docs/VRAN-Immunization-Fact-Sheet-v6.pdf

I found the above to be a good link about how vaccines affect the immune system and how children are increasingly sicker than they have ever been.  It is however Canadian but the same would apply for Oz I think.

Edited by PetraMojo, 21 October 2007 - 09:46 PM.


#57 2beautifulgirls

Posted 22 October 2007 - 10:01 AM

PetraMojo - You get the book "just a little prick "by emailing the author Hilary Butler.
The website is :http://www.whale.to/vaccines/butler88.html
You send an email and request a copy of the book, then when you have received it you send a donation for the book.
The website will explain more or ask Hilary in the email she is very helpful.

The book is an eye opener too, i am so glad to have received it.

Edited by 2beautifulgirls, 22 October 2007 - 10:02 AM.


#58 webbk

Posted 26 October 2007 - 01:35 PM

Hi there,

I am new to this thread and to forums in general, but this one
just grabbed my attention, as it's so great to find some like minded people who are questioning vaccinations.  I have a 10 year old son who is vaccinated. When he was little, I was questioning vaccinations, but really didn't have the knowledge or confidence to stand up and say no.  Thankfully he has been a pretty healthy child apart from some asthma triggered by colds, but who really knows  their full potential when unvaccinated. Chickenpox vacc didn't come in until after he had already caught a dose thankfully.
Now I have a 6 & 1/2 month daughter Aimee, who had 2 doses of the oral vitamin K (At the time still didn't know enough about it), and has had nothing else since.  We had a great domicillary nurse who started my ball rolling as she hadn't vaccinated her daughter. Then my maternal health nurse hadn't vaccinated her 2 sons, and she got me onto the book 'Well Adjusted Babies'. I was still a little unconfident as my Mum was adamantly pushing, and my husband wasn't convinced.  Since getting onto the websites www.visainfo.org.au and www.vaccination.inoz.com, I have confidently come to believe that it's an absolutely unnecessary onslaught to their immune systems, and I am really angry about it.  I am really angry that the big pharmaceutical companies are so interested in
making so much money to the detriment of our children.  And that most of the population (including doctors - I was made to feel like I was a irresponsible mother in not vaccinating by my GP)are led to believe them.  I have started taking Aimee to a alternative chiropractor who specialises in children (she has ezcema on her bottom, but thats another story!)who hasn't vaccinated his three, and with chiro adjustments whenever they shows sighs of getting sick; they've never been to a doctor.  I've heard numerous similar stories.  Does anyone else take their children to Chiropractors as preventative medicine?  I am also focusing on keeping Aimee's immune system strengthened with an organic diet appropriate for her age,  using Millet, Quinoa, Buckwheat and other immune strengthening foods.  I am still
learning so much.
The visainfo website which is South Australian organises playgroup/support groups.  Does anyone know if there is anything similar in Melbourne?  If not would anyone else be interested in such a group? Meeting like minded non vaxers; and sharing/swapping info on foods etc?  I feel the odd one out amongst all my friends and baby groups, and would love to mix with positive, questioning people.
Look forward to reading more comments.

#59 daffodil27

Posted 28 October 2007 - 03:03 PM

My friend Jennifer who wrote "well adjusted babies" wrote this blog about the cervical cancer vaccine.

it references this YouTube Video that is worth a look!

#60 happy1

Posted 02 November 2007 - 01:04 PM

Hi,
lots of interesing reading. Thanks.
I am looking for a GP (prefer north of  city in Adelaide) who is supportive of non vaccinating. I've also been given a hard time by a few Drs and labelled as ignorant.
I eventually have got 2 concientious objection forms signed, but not that easy.
(didn't get our current Gp 's signature) Happy with the GP we see, except that  we get
letters in the mail from them REMINDING us we are behind schedule. If any one can recommend someone, that would be great. original.gif PM me if you like.

#61 daffodil27

Posted 16 November 2007 - 07:13 PM

I am slowly getting through reading "just a little prick" and finding it really interesting, and learning a lot more which is great!

One thing I was reading today was about the totally ridiculous vaccine testing and how they go about testing vaccinations safety, also I find it totally wrong that Vaccine companies are not obliged to disclose the the data from clinical trials. You would think if it supported how great vaccinations were they would be taking out bill board ads!! glare.gif

it sure is a tangled web! ohmy.gif

#62 ~Sorceress~

Posted 16 November 2007 - 08:48 PM

Actually the problem isn't just with clinical trials of vaccinations, but will ALL clinical trials - they only have to disclose the ones that support their case!

I found this video clip put it very well (though I would have liked referencing for their figures): Western Health care

#63 daffodil27

Posted 16 November 2007 - 09:12 PM

VERY interesting ~Sorceress~

It is so much like people lining up to jump off a cliff - why dont more people question??? Blind faith sure is a killer  ohmy.gif  unsure.gif

#64 nicolelh

Posted 16 November 2007 - 09:41 PM

I"m halfway through just a little prick now too, thanks to your recommendations in this topic!

I've decided not to vaccinate dd at all now. thanks for pointing me to this book everyone.

also, how do you guys broach the subject of vaccinations with your friends and relies with babies too? (i.e., do you ever tell them what you've learned and recommend they don't vaccinate theri kids either?)

What about family, friends and others who will chuck a tantrum if we don't vaccinate? Do you recommend that you get in ahead and announce that they're not going to be vaccinated, or do you wait until they mention it, or do you avoid questions and hide it altogether?  so far no one's really asked me yet about her vacc.s, except mum who knows not to mess with my decisions!

Edited by nicolelh, 16 November 2007 - 09:43 PM.


#65 daffodil27

Posted 16 November 2007 - 09:55 PM

QUOTE
how do you guys broach the subject of vaccinations with your friends and relies with babies too? (i.e., do you ever tell them what you've learned and recommend they don't vaccinate theri kids either?)
Each to their own I say - I dont push my views about anything else onto others so I dont with vaccinations either. I wait for the subject to be broached with me and people will ask if they want to know more.

QUOTE
What about family, friends and others who will chuck a tantrum if we don't vaccinate?
its nothing to do with them!

QUOTE
Do you recommend that you get in ahead and announce that they're not going to be vaccinated, or do you wait until they mention it, or do you avoid questions and hide it altogether?
I dont see why you need to declare it! I will tell people I dont vaccinate if asked directly but do not advertise it simply because I dont feel the need to justify the health decisions I have made for my family.

congrats on your informed decision nicolelh!!! biggrin.gif

#66 PetraMojo

Posted 18 November 2007 - 08:04 PM

Is anyone worried about tetanus?

We haven't vaccinated Darcy but I am getting a bit of pressure about tetanus as he is walking and active now.  I am leaning still towards not getting him vaccinated as even if I get the adult vacc, it has the diptheria in it as well.  Aaarrrgghhh....

#67 ReneS

Posted 19 November 2007 - 07:57 AM

I agree with Daffodil27.

I don't go and announce to the worls that i don't immunise, but if asked, i tell them, and if asked why, i tell them some info, and the fact that it's MY decison.
I don't push my decision on anyone and i don't judge others that do immunise, to each his own.

I am lucky that i have a supportive family, and actually the truth be known, my family are the ones that gave me the info on NOT immunising.

I have never had anyone chuck a tantrum at me for not immunising, including staff at the Dr clinics and health centre, just bad looks really. The only place i've had rude people tell me off is on the boards.

#68 Sif

Posted 19 November 2007 - 08:58 AM

I didn't realise there was a non-vaccinating thread on EB!  

We vaccinated our eldest to 18 months.  Then we delayed vaccs on our second for a month, then did the first two rounds (this was in 2001 before the infant HepB shots came in).  With our third, we haven't vaccinated at all.

The two older boys got CP at the same time, aged 3.5 and 18 months, they caught it from a child who had recently been vaccinated with the, then new, CP vaccination.  DS#3 contracted a very mild case of CP from me when he was 4 months old.  I had undiagnosed Shingles, LOL.  When the shingles were finally diagnosed (about 4 months into having them), my GP said it was surprising my DS hadn't caught CP from them, and it was only then I realised he actually HAD (he'd had a couple of blisters that crusted over, on his penis and upper thighs)!!!

I'm not terribly concerned about my children contracting childhood illnesses.  I think, in our society today, we're far to preoccupied with preventing illness of any kind, without acknowledging that illness can make us stronger, and sometimes mild to moderate illnesses can prevent more severe illnesses taking root.  I believe illness is like a roadsign to say something in our environment isn't right, and to attempt to stamp out all the symptoms of illness is like removing the road signs - it doesn't take away the danger, just the warning signs about the dangers.

My older two boys suffer with allergies.  The oldest one has psoriasis and also peanut allergy.  The younger one has mild asthma.  Interestingly enough, it was the Paed. we saw for the younger one's early and severe reflux who told us to hold off with further vaccinating (when he was 5 months old and we'd just done the second round of vaccinations).  Our third son has had no vaccinations and has no allergies.  That is just our anecdotal evidence.

Our first son had the MMR, and about a month later he developed distractable/hyperactive behaviours.  At the time I put it down to him being 15 months old, and coming into his own toddlerhood assertiveness.  I've just recently had his behaviour assessed, and have been told it is at the distractable-impulsive end of normal.  However, I see a distinct difference in his behaviour and ability to control his impulses and that of his younger brother's who did not have the MMR.  Obviously, this isn't scientific at all, but I have found myself wondering if the MMR had some affect on my oldest son's personality...

There is so much we don't know about vaccines, and people seems so willing to inject foreign substances into their newborn babies, I find it all very depressing really - so I try not to think about it much...

Oh, and we generally don't tell people we don't vaccinate unless it comes up directly.

#69 daffodil27

Posted 19 November 2007 - 11:18 AM

Ivorytreehouse -  welcome!!

QUOTE
I'm not terribly concerned about my children contracting childhood illnesses. I think, in our society today, we're far to preoccupied with preventing illness of any kind, without acknowledging that illness can make us stronger, and sometimes mild to moderate illnesses can prevent more severe illnesses taking root. I believe illness is like a roadsign to say something in our environment isn't right, and to attempt to stamp out all the symptoms of illness is like removing the road signs - it doesn't take away the danger, just the warning signs about the dangers.


I whole heartedly agree and think you have really captured in words well what I have been trying to say to myself for some time - thanks! biggrin.gif

Will check my resources about tetanus and get back to you!

#70 ~Sorceress~

Posted 19 November 2007 - 12:22 PM

We keep chooks in our garden, so I do worry about chook-poo-encrusted-puncture-injuries sad.gif - but it doesn't keep me awake at night. In the event of an an-aerobic puncture wound I'd consider a prophylactic tetanus shot.

#71 2beautifulgirls

Posted 19 November 2007 - 02:00 PM

My DD3 is not vaccinated and never will be and DD1 and 2 will not get their 4 yr old ones.
I have never been asked about Vaccinations from people / friends and family.  A good come back i read from somewhere when people ask you why you did NOT vaccinate is " I have made an informed decision", HAVE YOU   original.gif !!

~Sorceress~- We have chooks too, never thought about the Tetenus thing though.

Tetenus is the ONE needle i remember getting as a child, as afterwards my arm felf very numb and sore and it hurt heaps going in my arm too. cry1.gif  cry1.gif

#72 nicolelh

Posted 19 November 2007 - 02:17 PM

I'm not sure if chooks pose any additional tetanus risk, I don't think they do from memory. however horses pose a big risk and surprisingly dogs get it almost as often as humans, so dogs can transmit it too (through a puncture wound.) having said that, hardly any dogs are vaccinated for tetanus (Really only the ones that have close contact with horses and worried owners) but cases are so rare anyway.

I would like more info on the tetanus vaccine from other points of view too!

#73 emskies

Posted 20 November 2007 - 02:33 PM

Another here who has decided not to vaccinate. I'm very happy to have discovered this thread!!
Reading 'Well-adjusted babies' was the clincher for me. Ironically, the same day I read the book, a friend rang me to say her 3 year old daugher had been diagnosed with autism. She is a physiotherapist and is quite convinced that vaccinations caused it. Absolutely devastating.

I have made the decision not to inform anyone of our stance on vaccinations unless directly asked. I find people's reactions quite amusing though - very defensive with very little substance behind their defense. Often I will use the Vitamin K vacc as an illustration and its surprising how many people go 'ohhhhhhhh, i didnt know, that's a good point'. Makes you wonder doesnt it?

#74 daffodil27

Posted 20 November 2007 - 03:38 PM

HI emskies!
QUOTE
Often I will use the Vitamin K vacc as an illustration and its surprising how many people go 'ohhhhhhhh, i didnt know, that's a good point'.
what exactly do you say??? Always on the look out for good one liners laughing2.gif

#75 emskies

Posted 21 November 2007 - 05:43 PM

hi Daffodil27!

Generally I just say that globally, babies aren't born with (and never have been) high levels of Vitamin K, and breast milk is low in Vitamin K also. Given that breastmilk is designed to contain everything a baby needs, why is Vitamin K mysteriously missing, if it so essential??
Why has the medical world decided that babies must have Vit K when they were clearly designed not to?
Most people can't answer this  blink.gif

Cheers!
Emma




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