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Non-Vaccinated Kids Discussion #4
160 replies to this topic
Posted 07 February 2008 - 10:41 PM
Here's a link to your previous discussion:
Please note: This thread is a supportive thread for people choosing not to vaccinate. There are many other areas of EB for people with opposing opinions to discuss them, so I would ask that this thread stays a supportive one. If you have any issues about this, please PM me.
Posted 08 February 2008 - 07:21 AM
I thought I had better log into this new thread in case I miss anything This is such a great and informative thread that I actually enjoy getting alerts to it - knowing there are more of us like-minded parents around is comforting
Keep up all the fantastic information...
Edited by precious1, 08 February 2008 - 07:21 AM.
Posted 08 February 2008 - 07:48 AM
Is it BRONZE?
There is a lot of ladies that don't post on here at the moment,I have noticed their name around the boards but PLEASE come back and post
Posted 08 February 2008 - 01:39 PM
I am always reading and checking out whats new - but dont really post unless I have something to add - always around!
Posted 08 February 2008 - 02:07 PM
Another one that is often reading this thread but haven't posted yet.
DS is 6 months and we vaccinated him at 2 and 4 months. It was only then that I found out about all the hidden nasty ingredients and the possible links to autoimmune, behavioural and physiological conditions. As my husband is a type 1 diabetic and we have a lot of autoimmune disfunction in our family, we have now made the decision not to continue with his vaccinations.
I went to a naturopath yesterday as I'm still a little worried about DS catching diseases and she suggested that I could give DS acidophillus (designed for children from 6 months) to boost his immunity and could also consider homeopathic vaccines. Has anyone had experience with homeopathic vaccines?
Posted 08 February 2008 - 03:01 PM
Thanks ladies Its good you are here I know a few of you have been on here for awhile and probably know a lot more then me.
I am up for no vaccinations but I have to feel confident when explaining all this to DP as he would rather I continue with the vaccinations but knows I won't give in to this. Up to now all my children have had all the needles except bub has not had his 6 mths one. I have 11 y/o girl and a 3 y/o boy as well.
I went to GP and got my CO form the other day for the 2 younger ones at first he wasn't going to do it and said let me think about it!! HE went on and on about the vaccinations saying we only have them if they are deadly. I said OH yeah what about CP then he said brain inflamination etc. He started going about herd immunity. I asked about the money you GP's benefit from this OH no thats to pay for the nurses who gives the needles. yeah sure it is !! He raved on side affects are really rare and you wouldn't hear of them and I said my nephews is having seisures which they seem to think its from DPT one he had 4 months old. Ok but its still rare.
he signed it the end yeaah I walked out of there pretty quickly. That same day DD comes home with a card asking for autho on hepBx2,HPVx3, dip-tet-pertussis one and the CP one oh what!!! I am trying to research on Tetanus as said in previous thread as a little unsure on that.
Has anyone had experience with homeopathic vaccines?I just got my 8 mth old one the other day he is basically on a schedule like vaccinations but with those little pills I asked about side affects she said she has never heard of it.
Some people say it does not work but it will keep DP happy and me too. I might have to ask about the other two just the intial consult is a bit pricey
Edited by Taurean, 08 February 2008 - 03:02 PM.
Posted 08 February 2008 - 09:21 PM
Both of my Girls have had No Vaccs what so ever and they are 3 and 1 and my step son who is 10 also hasnt.
I think it is great that there is this thread I dont post much but I do read it all the time.I will try to post more often.
At the moment I an waiting on a letter from Medicare to give to my DD's kinder to prove that I have C/O to not have her immunised.
I think they should just send you the report like what everyone else gets who does immunise and just have C/O on it instead of the BIG list of injections.
See you all around
Posted 12 February 2008 - 11:11 AM
My DS hasn't been vac. Thanks to my DH who researched it and was really against it, so we decided to put it of. I was a fence sitter on the topic but I recently went to a talk at the Woodford festival called voodoo babies I think the lady was from AVN and it was full of facts and statistics and was a real eye opener and got me off the fence and on the no vaccination band wagon. Which is good because now when asked by my concerned parents and drug pushing doctors why Ds hasn't been vaccinated I have some pretty good reasons.
I do have a question though, I got a letter from some vaccination register place and it kind of indicated that DS had to have his vaccination up to date to get family assistance and for when he starts school in NSW. Is that true? I called the hotline and they couldn't give me a straight answer. I have heard the same thing happens at child care centres, where non vaccinated children can't attand. Is this true?
Posted 12 February 2008 - 01:48 PM
emgosper - As Valsky has done, you will need to register a Concientious objectors form to make your non-vacc status offical!
Some one else will have to give you the details as I live over seas so havnt done any of the paper work associated with it all YET!!
Hi to all!
Edited by daffodil27, 12 February 2008 - 01:49 PM.
Posted 12 February 2008 - 04:35 PM
My chiro gave me a flyer last night in relation to what emgosper mentioned with the Voodoo Children information night.
It is on the Sunshine Coast QLD
Wed 13th Feb (this Wed night)
Lake Kawana Community Centre
$22 - includes membership to AVN as well.
I will probably be going - so PM me if you are interested. There may be also other details I can read off the flyer if needed.
May be an eye-opener for those that are unsure about their decision or wanting some extra info...
Posted 12 February 2008 - 11:10 PM
Regarding tentanus, the only thing I remember coming across was from a few years ago, and I can't even begin to tell you where I would have read it, but it was about tetanus cases in Australia for one year (probably late 90s, early 2000s), and it said there had been ten reported cases of tetanus for the previous year, five of which had previously had the tetanus shot. I don't know if this was for all of Australia, or for a specific state, it was definitely Australian though.
Posted 13 February 2008 - 07:43 AM
Natural Immunity to Tetanus
I emailed Hilary Butler because I received her book "Just a Little Prick" but lost her address to send her a donation, anyway I asked her about Tetanus she sent me so much information that one link there is one of them. I will pass on more later This lady knows her stuff .
I think you are right KristyAnne, I have the impression that you can still get Tetanus even if vaccinated!! Thats why I suppose so many boosters.
Sorry to read that your'e DD reacted sleep-deprived they say its good to space them out heaps. I will keep you posted about re:homeopathic
I have seen on the WA board that there is some scarlet fever cases going around. I have been trying research that one I thought it was long gone!! Maybe these oldies will come back because all our immune systems are stuffed from vaccinations.
Posted 14 February 2008 - 09:27 AM
Could you please send me all those links from the Butlers?
Posted 15 February 2008 - 02:26 PM
I went to the seminar on wed night where the lady from the AVN spoke and it made me feel so much more confident about our decision. One of the facts I didn't know about was these "cell lines" (not full name as can't remember) that are in vaccinations that would mean that they can be linked to cancer. This really cemented in my decision.
She was a very knowledgable lady and well researched her information.
Also for those asking about homeopathic vaccinations, I spoke to a homeopath about it and she would do these for me but she said that they didn't give these to their own kids as they felt it unneccessary.
Posted 15 February 2008 - 02:55 PM
I didn't make it to the talk after all - but that means you must be on the Sunshine Coast somewhere
Are you interested in catching up as I rarely meet likeminded mummies - especially close by.
I am at Buddina...
Posted 15 February 2008 - 03:02 PM
some children at our school had scarlett fever last year, it was only a couple and by no means an out break.
The information about tentanus is very interesting so thanks, DD2 is not vaccinated and the others will not be having any more ever again.
Posted 15 February 2008 - 04:31 PM
I will get back to you Carla and see if Hillary does not mind if I put all here I am sure she wont. Right just heard back ok!!
Well I did it I just told a friend and said I am not vaccinating anymore and she said "OHHH you are one of THOSE people" HUH
Magnesium used in Tetanus
This is after I asked her Hillary about Tetanus
The motheringdotforum is very interesting too
You might want to go onto internet and read the tetanus chapter of the 2006 health department handbook first.
I have a reasonable collection of Tetanus articlesabout the disease, and side effects of vaccine, and failure of the vaccine which, if you wish, you are welcome to come and look at. I was about to start to write a technical article on Tetanus but it would not be available for another month, if that, as I've got a case of book writing burnout. In case you are wondering, I'm not the person who wrote the IAS book. My husband and I have just written a book on vaccination called "Just a little Prick" but apart from a story about guillain barre after it, there isn't much on tetanus as it was to go in the next book, so Just a Little Prick will be of no use to you to resolve this issue. Many of the questions you ask would be answered in the technical article, but since you need the information now, my suggestion is that if you are in the Auckland area, you come and see me.
I note your comment about natural immunity "not" being conferred, and am aware that textbooks reinforce this idea.
However, you might be interested in looking at these URLs.
The first one is interesting, because its a ludicrous proposition. At a time when by far the vast majority of the developed world has been vaccinated against tetanus, to suggest that it can protect against Multiple sclerosis defies imagination, given that MS is the highest its ever been in the developed world. It might be tempting therefore to think that the other comments in this article are also incorrect, but you'd like to think that de Stephano, someone from CDC that NZ looks to as an expert would know something. So why is it we read this?
We postulate that naturally acquired or vaccine-induced immunity to tetanus has a protective effect against the development and progression of MS
Here is an article on natural immunity to tetanus: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender...48&blobtype=pdf
I also attended a conference in 1995, where an ex-WHO expert stated clearly for all to hear that you can have naturally acquired immunity and added to that the droll comment "otherwise, you would have no ancestors and therefore would not be alive today."
It is also important to note that they don't know that much about immunity and therefore comments like this take on a new significance in the light of the fully immunised 10 year old from Cambridge who contracted tetanus this year after scraping her knee on a stone wall. Most people don't realise that the primary determinant of tetanus disease is host factors, not the bacteria itself, since we all have contact with it every day, all day. Cellular immunity is something they don't yet understand, therefore things like the following issues are puzzling to them.
Here are some urls for you to click on and read:
I have several articles of this type:
Here is another, though your baby isn't likely to be a drug abuser, but this shows how lifestyle nullifies existing antibodies:
This man however, was "normal" and had had a primary schedule plus two boosters.
I've attached a pdf from the BMJ from this year.
Here another you might like to read: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/...t/full/109/1/e2
In terms of natural disease, an Australian article in New Zealand Doctor 16 August 2000 quotes Dr Margaret Burgess, stating that "What we know from morbidity and mortablity data is that this is a disease of old ladies." The little old ladies usually haven't been immunised and if they are like the little old ladies I know, live on white bread and sugarified tea.
Some would say, that that is because all the youngsters have been vaccinated so don't get it, but that's not true. In developed countries, tetanus has always been a disease of those with compromised immunity through age, stress, immunodeficiency etc.
The data for cases in New Zealand that I have is incomplete, but it would be easiest for me to scan it in, and send it to you if you wish to see it. Mostly its older people though the last two cases were not, they were the 10 year old and an unvaccinated 18 month old from Northland, who lived in appaling living conditions.
Yes you will find plenty of articles that say that the tetanus vaccine "works", and if you wish to have it done, that's your choice. You have to live with yourselves as parents.
You may wish to read this thread: I'm Momtezuma Tuatara
Don't know if the link is still valid though...
Many Unprotected Against Tetanus Risks From Home, Garden and Yard Activities- 80% of Gardeners Receive Tetanus-prone Injuries Each Year, 40% Report Being Unimmunized - WASHINGTON - PRNewswire - March 26 WASHINGTON, March 26 /PRNewswire/ -- As the arrival of spring ushers in this year's gardening season, a new survey shows that many gardeners are unaware of their increased risk for tetanus, a potentially fatal infectious disease caused by bacteria found in dirt, potting soil and manure. The National Foundation for Infectious Diseases (NFID)/National Coalition for Adult Immunization (NCAI) and the National Gardening Association (NGA) are working together to spread the news about outdoor tetanus risks and encourage routine tetanus and diphtheria (Td) immunization during the NGA's National Garden Month in April.Results of a national consumer survey conducted by the NGA point to a general lack of preparedness among people working around their home, garden or yard, with at least 40% of respondents reporting that they are unprotected against tetanus. This is despite the fact that more than twice as many respondents admit receiving injuries in the last year that put them at direct risk for contracting the disease."The bacteria that cause tetanus are widespread in the environment and can potentially prove fatal," says home improvement expert Bob Vila, who has joined NFID/NCAI to encourage routine tetanus immunization. "Even I run the risk of tetanus exposure from everyday gardening and landscaping activities, just like the folks in 84 million households across America who participate in do-it-yourself lawn and garden activities. Fortunately, I've had my Td booster shot, which protects against two diseases, tetanus and diphtheria."According to NFID/NCAI, many people may not realize that their childhood vaccine series for tetanus and diphtheria doesn't protect them throughout their entire life. For adolescents and adults, one vaccine protects against both infections since both require a booster every 10 years. Tetanus is widely present in the environment and can enter the body through any simple wound -- not just from stepping on a rusty nail. Diphtheria is a contagious disease that is still common in 87 countries and can have a devastating effect if it were to spread among a population with a waning level of immunity. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) recommends that all adults and adolescents protect themselves before exposure occurs by keeping their tetanus and diphtheria immunization up to date."Tetanus is rare in the U.S. today, but it's difficult to tell when you may be exposed and the potential consequences can be devastating," says NFID President Susan Rehm, MD. "Because you can never tell when you might be exposed to tetanus, it is important for all healthy adolescents and adults to protect themselves against the disease with a booster shot, every 10 years."Other key findings about the public's knowledge of risk and protection against tetanus raised by the 2004 National Gardening Association survey include:Most respondents don't know where tetanus comes from: * 57% of respondents did not know tetanus bacteria are commonly found in soil, dirt and manure. According to the CDC, 31% of tetanus injuries occur in the yard/garden/farm and an additional 23% occur around other outdoor locations.(1) * Only 35% of respondents recognize that wounds caused by animal or insect bites are potential sources of tetanus infection, despite the commonality of these injuries. A majority of gardeners report tetanus-prone injuries: * 80% of survey respondents reported some type of tetanus-prone injury while working around the home, garden or yard; but 40% report they have not had a tetanus shot in the last 10 years. Few recognize increased tetanus risk for those over 60 years of age: * 86% of respondents did not know that seniors are at an increased risk for tetanus infection compared to children. According to the CDC, 70% of adults 70 years of age and older lack protection against tetanus and diphtheria. Further, at least 40% of those aged 60 years or older remain unprotected against both diseases,(2) and many may never have received a childhood vaccination, which was introduced in the late 1940s. In the survey, gardening fans report somewhat higher tetanus immunization rates (60%) than the general public; CDC's analysis of more than 18,000 blood samples from the U.S. public show that 53% of people aged 20 years and older are not adequately protected against tetanus and diphtheria.
So that means .. what.. about 150 million USA people are not immune.
In my opinion, if you are petrified of tetanus the best option is to have it done since you won't sleep properly if you don't. Yes there is a long list of side effects from the vaccine, but even if she had any of them, they would deny them and tell you it was coincidental.
Hope this is of help in order for you to make an informed choice.
Many thanks for all your research below, I feel embarrassed- I could/should have found these myself. I have contacted CSL and asked them for the professional datasheet for the baby tet tox vaccine, I am especially interested in the ingredients. I don't know if you saw the recent documentary on the New Zealand mother with two small autistic boys. The blame for their situation seemed to rest firmly on the vaccines they were given at three months old, in particular the mercury poisoning they probably received from these. The main culprit in the ingredients seemed to be Thiomersal. Which has since been banished from all vaccines except ADT and one other I can't remember right now, which is why I am interested to see whether Thiomersal has also been retained in the baby tet tox. So, having agonised for months over all the other vaccines (none of which we are going to use for our daughter), it seems we are impaled, once again, on the horns of a dilhema regarding the Tet tox.
My partner is probably slightly more supportive of our daughter having the vaccine than I am, so having a little more information regarding the potential risks, ie the children with Guillaine Barre, even if only anecdotal, would be very useful to our discussions and final decision. If it is at all possible, would you be able to email me a little more about the tetanus disease, risks and reactions, you mentioned? Or perhaps, would you be able to point me in the direction I should be looking to find out more about actual instances of tetanus in New Zealand, the symptoms, suggested treatments, mortality rates etc? The reason my partner and I have been concerned about this one is that if one were to survive the disease, natural immunity still isn't confered. As with so many other parents our daughter is our greatest treasure, and we want to make the very best choices for her health.
Thanks for your help
Michelle from IAS asked for my help with your query. I don't know if she will forward my reply or not, so I decided to cut and paste it and send it to you directly.
See bits in red.
I was wondering if you could help me with this one, I had a look to see if I could find an insert for this vaccine, but couldn't. who are CSL? Commonwealth Serum Laboratories, and NZ gets some of their vaccines from them. I couldn't find anything on their site about baby Tetanus vaccines in a single formulation. Here is their consumer data on adult formulation. CSL tdhttp://www.csl.com.au/VaccinesAdult_VaccinesADT_Vaccine.asp Unlike medsafe, they don't allow free access to vaccine data sheets... but in this case, since its being deleted, maybe that's why its not there. I see no reason why Katherine can't e-mail them here; http://www.csl.com.au/Contact_Us.asp and ask them for the professional datasheet. She is entitled to see it.
I have had quite a few Tetanus enquiries in the last few days, don't know if they're doing a big push on it at the mo', but people seem to be a bit worried about it. It is always one that people get a bit hung up on. To find New Zealand informaton you go here
http://www.medsafe.govt.nz/Profs/Datasheet/datasheet.htm which is an alphabetical listing of all vaccines and drugs, and if you click on ADT then it will take you here http://www.medsafe.govt.nz/Profs/Datasheet...tvaccineinj.htm But I found this one, which looks like the one Katherine was looking for here http://www.medsafe.govt.nz/Profs/Datasheet...anusvaccine.htm
Yes, people do get hung up on it, and I can't understand why. Both our boys 24 and 22 have never had it, and when Ian was with NZ cricket he went through some really nasty countries (in Sri Lanka for instance the cricket pitches are watered daily with raw sewage :rolleyes) and never had problems. In my first book, Just a Little Prick (JALP), some parents wrote of a case of their child who got Guillaine Barre after tD, and when he was in hospital with it, there was another child with the same problem. Neither case appears on CARM register. Not surprising... I was going to write up tetanus disease and risks, and reactions (of which I have quite a few) for the second book, but most of the takers for JALP are from overseas, so I'm waiting to see what will happen before I consider doing the second one.
Hope you & family are all well. We are as well as can be expected. I'm very tired, but that's post book relaxation and pre-menopause I think.
----- Subject: tetanus
This from another lady
Hello, I was wondering if you would be able to send me information pertaining to the ingredients and potential adverse reactions as a result of taking the tetanus toxoid. My daughter will be a year and a half old soon and although we are not vaccinating her with anything else, we live in the country and are wary of tetanus so have purchased a course of three shots of tetanus only (no diptheria, pertussis or polio). We intend to start the three-shot coursde in October, I would have liked to leave it later but the vaccine expires at the end of March next year and the shots must be at least one month apart. We would have rather left the tetanus shots till our daughter is at least two- the reason for this rush is that CSL, the company that distributes the tetanus toxoid in New Zealand has announced this will be the last batch of tetanus-only vaccines available. After this we will only be able to get tetanus with pertussis, diptheria and polio vaccines combined!
I have a wonderful homeopathic healer who will be prescribing remedies before and after we give my daughter her straight tetanus shots. I would still like to know what, exactly, is in the tetanus-only vaccine, and possible reactions I should be looking out for. I would be very grateful if you would be able to let me know about this.
Many thanks for the work you do, although I have always been dubious about vaccination, my husband is now reading your second edition book as well and is also horrified at the true facts and figures behind the mass polluting of New Zealand children's bloodstreams.
I look forward to hearing from you
Edited by Taurean, 15 February 2008 - 04:50 PM.
Posted 17 February 2008 - 12:04 PM
Hi there all..
With the CO Form. You only need this is you are sending your child to Kindy, daycare and school. Also for you to receive the Child care benefit for Daycare.
If you do the CO form you then will receive the Immunisation Allowance when your child is 18 months old.
So pretty much you need the form unless of course you are homeschooling...
I am 3 kiddies, my youngest who is 6 months has had NO needles. DD1 and DD2 are up to date, but they will not be getting their 4 yr old ones.
Posted 17 February 2008 - 05:08 PM
More from Hillary Butler re:Tetanus
In terms of wounds, you need to insist that children learn that wound cleaning is essential. Not just for tetanus, but also for Staph aureus and other bacteria on the skin. The skin has a special defence mechanism that kicks in and works very well, but it helps for it to have less to do in the first place. So even if they don't tell you about wounds, they need to be taught how to clean up wounds themselves, and how to do it properly.
Why are you worried about tetanus? There was no vaccine for civilians in this country until 1960. Your parents and grandparents most likely never had a tetanus shot until their mid years, if indeed they have had a shot at all (unless they were in the military). And even if they have had a shot, recent serological surveys shows that huge percentages of vaccinated middle aged and elderly have no detectable immunity at all.
So ask yourself some questions:
Why didn't the whole world die of tetanus at the age of 11, before we had such things as running water and sanitation? Horses were the major axis of life in the country until about 1950 here. My barefooted husband went to school with barefooted kids who rode to school on their horses, and schools used to have horse” paddocks…. That was in the 1940's. Somehow, they all survived cuts, grazes and lived to tell the tale. Obviously a few people got tetanus, but it's always been a rare disease. I have some graphs on that coming out in the next book, which we hope to have out in about three months if were lucky!
I'll send you some stuff now.
Edited by Taurean, 17 February 2008 - 05:11 PM.
Posted 24 February 2008 - 08:08 AM
Hi, I hope you don't mind me coming in to ask a question.
I immunise my DD but a close friend has chosen not to.
I am interested to know more. I have been reading up on many articles.
But I have a personal question. Do you think that by not immunising your children you may be putting newborns and young babies at risk? I mean those that are gradually being immunised but are not fully covered. I hope this makes sense.
Posted 24 February 2008 - 12:08 PM
Shandy - a vaccinated child can just as easily spread disease.
Feel free to go back on all previous threads as there are many informative discussions and links for you to educate and inform yourself!
Taurean - thanks for sharing all your info from Hilary. She is a great resource thats for sure!
Edited by daffodil27, 24 February 2008 - 12:09 PM.
Posted 24 February 2008 - 08:03 PM
Hi ladies, am not sure if I'm allowed to do this with the new trading rules???
I'm selling a copy of 'What your doctor may NOT tell you about Children;s Vaccinations' by Stephanie Cave M.D. This book is very popular and was recommended to me by both a nutritionist and naturopath and is well talked about in the US.
Link to trading room post here
If you're interested please post in the trading room link
Posted 25 February 2008 - 09:44 AM
Hi Ladies, im new to this thread. My mum decided along time ago not to immunise her kids so my brother and i are not done hes 32 and im 27.His 4 children are not done either. My cousin was born normal he was a normal todler till he had his 3yo vacs then 2 days later was in a coma and came out with cyrable palsy feed through a tube till he died last year at the age of 35. I have another cousin who was diagnosed with c palsy at the age of 3 months but not as severe. My youngest cousin is 7 has been vacs and has been diagnosed with severe autism adhd and a autoimmune something i cant remember! Thats Just in my Imediate family!! for those parents who have questioned ther choices not to immunise DONT you made the right decision.
Posted 25 February 2008 - 02:07 PM
thats hard sometimes I know the Tetanus still gets me but you sound like you and brother are not vaccinated against tetanus is that right? Its sad about family too!!
I am not with DD's father and he does not know I have chosen to not do anymore vaccinations she has the grade 7 ones coming up. I am not sure even legally can he take me to court I dont know?? Its no use talking about it with him either he can only see his way on everything.
Question for all of you have you stopped researching? or you think you always research?
Posted 25 February 2008 - 02:50 PM
Question for all of you have you stopped researching? or you think you always research?to be honest I dont need any more research to convince ME not to vaccinate but do look into research continually as a defensive tool IYKWIM?
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