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Non-vaccinated kids discussion #8
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Posted 06 May 2009 - 04:38 PM
I also cried about little Dana and watching the gasping for breath and turning blue was frightening and also made me question myself for a moment. Just had to remind myself that it was great propaganda, not a balanced view and that the risks are there either way you go.
Prickly - totally agree on the treatment side, Vitamin C is a proven winner in fighting infection as is Vitamin A with the measles, problem is that Doctors don't believe it and go in gung ho with AB's and paracetamol that are only giving the body less to fight with.. sigh....
Posted 06 May 2009 - 09:00 PM
Oh new thread!'
No wonder I hadn't had any alerts
I thought you guys were all quiet for a while LOL
There are so many burn 'em at the stake threads going on at the moment - it drives me insane.
Anyway - each to their own I suppose.
ReneS - if it is not too late I have just recently been in exactly your shoes. I got my homeopath to make me a remedy (just in case) it was Cuprum.
BTW my son was so healthy in his 2 weeks away from kindy he drove me batty!
No WC here and as it happens there were actually a few kids off for non-vax reasons. I only found out when they also had heaps of notices to collect when I got back too
Re the channel 7 ambush - GRRR! I have written a letter to the station via their site and blasted their biased waste of time for ratings effort.
For those interested Meryl has actually given a detailed account of what really happened in her blog - here is the link http://nocompulsoryvaccination.blogspot.com/
It is disgusting to say the very least
The only good thing that came from it was Dana's poor parents that said that more research should be done so parents can make an informed choice HERE HERE!
Cat it may be worth mentioning your story there.
Oh and here for doubting yourself and your research and experiences.
Have you read the swine flu info from Dr Mercola? I love Dr Mercola He is so awesome and his newsletters are fab!
He is always a voice of reason
I have just ordered some of the kids multivitamins he has. I have access to a great deal combo pack and also I found a 20% coupon code that saved me heaps again - let me know if you are interested. I have used his products before and they are fantastic - even my naturopath was impressed with the contents.
Take care all and now I am in the loop again with the alerts from this post and won't miss out on any news LOL
Posted 06 May 2009 - 09:42 PM
Just read the last of the posts on the last thread - so thought I had better reply to the ABC forum comment.
Interesting, not sure the pro vacc Dr was convinced though. I got the impression she was more annoyed.
Larissa - maybe it was just positive thinking LOL but I thought she relented to the fact that HepB was given very early and was a bit unsure about the reasoning for newborns needing it.
Also she agreed about the toxins in the vaccines (maybe she didn't use the word toxin) but she did kinda respect that they were not that good for a child.
Maybe I should listen again - I did think it was quite a good forum though...
Posted 06 May 2009 - 09:56 PM
You guys a sweethearts I should spend more time in here, and I might from now on. Im going to go more alternative medicine than I have in the past....I have proven time and time again to myself that natural is the way to go with my boys and yet I keep doubting myself!!
Im trying to track down this book again, it was a super thick super medical book, allabout various vitamin/herbal/supplements and everything, but ti went inot great detail about each individual vitamin, so with say vitamin c it had three pages about the origins/use/medicinal uses/treatment amount and even said toxic amounts etc.....was very detailed.
off to search now....will let you know when I find it again!
Posted 07 May 2009 - 09:45 AM
I did think it was quite a good forum though...
Agreed, I was quite impressed with the presenter. She clearly had a few question marks over vaccs.
Cat - sleep soundly, you are doing your best. Just treat if something happens to pop up.
I noticed in one of the last threads that you really fear WC and it made me realise how much our personal perceptions alter the reality. I really fear measles, I'm confident my kids would be fine but it's still something I fear. On the other hand wc doesn't really faze me in the slightest, my youngest is 14 months now though. Past the danger period.
Posted 08 May 2009 - 07:37 AM
Thanks for the link to Meryl's blog - very interesting reading, and not at all surprising to read what went on behind the scenes!!!!
Posted 10 May 2009 - 08:10 AM
Hi All, am new in here - am non-vaccinating mother of two. didn't know this thread existed YAY!
Probably not as educated as you about alternative therapies (thanks all for the tips in this thread)... but i do treat myself and both my children with regular chiropractic treatments as this helps immensly (sp?) with immune system and body organ functionality (all nerves feeding all organs in body run thru the spine) and my DS takes 1000mg fish oil/day, probiotics and multivit with extra zinc and iron. and i BF my daughter.
otherwise i really dropped in here to find out what ppl are doing to prevent and treat whooping cough... thanks to those suggesting olive leaf etc. hadn't thought of that.
also i read some stuff here about that apalling channel 7 segment on provaccination and the mother who lost her child to WC... question, does anyone know whether this child developed it after vax?
re: provaccinators scared of our children.... "if you beleive vax's work, why you worried?"
anyway nice to know i have ppl to talk to about this stuff w'out judgement - another YAY!
Posted 10 May 2009 - 05:20 PM
Welcome Michelle, nice to have you on board and yes, I agree, it makes a refreshing change to have somewhere to discuss with other like minded people without being incorrectly and negatively judged
Posted 11 May 2009 - 07:14 AM
due to children and mothers day activities it's taken me till today to read meryls blog and all the other sites that she points to - absolutely incredible.
can anyone point me to data showing the coorelation to vaccine schedule and age t death with sids? i've seen it but can't find it again
Posted 11 May 2009 - 12:48 PM
Can i have a small selfish vent... don't really have anywhere else to say this, so i came in here!!
OK, so here i go....
As you know, my kids were excluded from daycare a couple of weeks ago due to another child having Whooping cough... so they stayed home and all is good.
I have been giving them Collodial Silver, Olive Leaf Extract, probiotics, VitC, Kids cough and cold minerals and heaps of OJ. Saturday i went down and saw my family-friend at work who is a naturapath and she gave me a cough and cold relief vapourising rub as well, so i have been putting it on my boys.
NOW after ALL that, they have all come down with runny noses, and my boys have a slight chesty cough, but only at night or early morning. They don't cough during the night either, so i am pretty sure it's NOT WC. I have been reading up and WC is a dry cough, and it's definately NOT dry. (plus they don't have trouble breathing when they cough, as it's not a long cough either)
Even DH has started with a runny nose and i have had a headache for a few days, feels like a stuffy head.
ANYWAY.... i gave my DS's both a shot of garlic extract just before, as much as they both disliked it, in HOPES that this cold or whatever it is goes away before daycare on Wednesday.
So what i'm angry is.... after ALL the things i have been giving them WHY did they get sick??
What really upset me the most is a very good friend of mine said to me the other day, that my kids are always sick... WTF? She said her son is never sick. (she vax's)
Ok, all 3 of kids came down with temps and diarrhea a about a month or so ago, all one after each other, but that's pretty much IT!
DS#1 did have asthma and excema problems last year, but hasn't had anything in a long time, (eliminated cows products and wheat for a while) but she has only move back to town in feburary, so she wouldn't of known about that anyway.
ANYWAY, yes they do get sick, they're kids, but i just don't think they are sick all the time, and it really hurt her saying that. I suppose because i'm always on the defence because i don't vax, and i use as many natural remedies to "cure" things as possible, sometimes i feel guilty that i'm not going with the rest of the world.
Anyway, everytime i ever saw her son, (whether here or in Sydney where she lived) he always seemed to have a cough, and i NEVER said a word EVER!!! I NEVER give her advice on any medicines or anything like that, so it's not like i push my views to her and p*ssed her off.
Anyway, i am upset that she said that, and i am also upset that my family have come down with a cold even after everything i've been pumping into my kids, and i'm upset and worried that someone might say something to me about the kids having a cough after the whole WC thing at daycare.
So there it is, my vent. Seems stupid i know, but the whole thing has really gotten to me.
Posted 11 May 2009 - 04:33 PM
No my DS isn't sick but with DD returning to kindergarten next term i'm getting prepared.
Posted 11 May 2009 - 04:42 PM
I understand exactly what you are saying. My son was also excluded from kindy being unvaxed and WC in the centre.
He is also with a slight runny nose, a sometime fever at night and phlegmy cough.
I have also had the comment that he is always sick WTF? He is hardly ever sick and all he ever has is a cold.
Now the thing is that we all need to remember is that a cold is a sign of a great immune system. It is the body's way to empty the trash can (so to speak). It releases all the toxins and bugs that have built up from the environment and is a high level of "dis-ease" Showing the body is working effectively.
The snot, mucous, phlegm etc is the lymphatic system killing off the bugs (either by encasing them - mucous etc or just kinda zapping them) Fever is aiding the body as well.
So never think your body is actually SICK by having a cold or fever.
We need to empty the trash can every now and then.
Also there is proof that each time after a cold or "health expression" usually starts a new milestone or growth spurt or something similar that is a necessary thing.
Sometimes suppressing these health expressions actually hinders essential growth and your body's immunity system and pushes the bugs deeper. Supplementing with all the things you have may just have started the emptying of the trash can and helping the body to become more pure.
Trust in our bodies - they are absolutely incredible and our natural immunity and lympathic system is an amazing thing particularly if not compromised and left to it's own devices.
You have made every effort to create your darling little one's systems withstand the harsh environment we now live in and be confident that you have done and are still doing your very best.
Those that think your kids are SICK are just disillusioned and not informed. You now better and the proof will be there in time...
Take care and don't let them get you down.
Posted 11 May 2009 - 10:08 PM
Oh Thank You Thank You Thank You precious1 you have no idea how much that means to me that someone else who is in my shoes understands exactly!!
I will tell you though, after giving the boys a shot of the garlic extract, their runny nose calmed right down, and i have hardly heard either of them cough tonight!! I just told DH to have some cause he has been blowing his foghorn all day
Posted 12 May 2009 - 09:11 PM
ReneS i agree with the previous poster with people having a good reaction to bugs. A good quick reaction to a virus or bacteria shows that your immune system is up to the job!
I remember when i was in my third year of alternative studies and doing supervised consults and my kids seemed to always be sick, i felt terrible because how could i expect someone to have faith in me if i couldnt keep my own super healthy. Then one of the women at school asked me what sort of therapies i used as she noticed that my kids were back to school quickly! Basically there were a lot of bugs going around, a lot of kids were getting sick, but she noticed that mine were better and bouncing back to school quicker, i still love that woman lol she made my day, and made me keep faith as well.
My teens had a year or so when they were sick all the time, then they seemed to be in great health; they were growing quickly and it takes a lot of energy for that so less to fight the normal bugs.
My dd does not get sick a often as her brothers, but they had a harder start to life, being premmie and also using orthodox medicines for the first few years. Different kids start with different basic levels of health, if you are prone to chesty things then you will be more likely to catch them. My dd is more likely to come down with a gastro bug than a cough and cold anyday. Ali
Posted 14 May 2009 - 09:49 AM
Does anyone know if statistics are collected on the number of vaccinated kids getting whooping cough? I have just heard of yet another child (friend of the family) who is fully vaccinated and has just had a horrendous time with whooping cough. Anecdotally, this seems to be common in the latest outbreak.
Makes me wonder if the vaccine works at all?
Posted 14 May 2009 - 10:04 AM
I was talking to my Mum, and she said my brother got whooping cough after the vaccine, that was over forty years ago though. but it does seem like we never get the full details.
Yesterday I went and got some sodium ascorbate (sp) and some olive leaf extract. I gave my DD and myself some of the SA, but not the Olive leaf yet. I decided to google olive leaf it seems it is not safe, or at least not tested for use during pregnancy. Also I was going to get the COlidal silver, but that too can be quite dangerous with people taking too much and dieing from it. I know just about all of us in here have researched vaccinations, but we should also be careful with natural things too. I am mainly talking about during pregancy.
Posted 14 May 2009 - 10:49 AM
Yes, its always good to see a 'health practitioner' esp during pregnancy and with children, but if you are treating illnesses rather than just increasing general health then you need to see someone who has experience with tworking out the problems first then doing the treatment. Thats the reason practioner only products cant be bought over the counter - unfortunately you can sometimes buy then online but they dont come with the knowledge that your practioner has.
On the topic of vaccinated children getting wc - there seems to be a lot, it would b e good if they would keep records of that as well but i'm not sure they do. Ali
Posted 14 May 2009 - 09:23 PM
Honest answer please......
If *I* get immunised for whooping cough....is there ANY chance at all I can pass it on to my boys? (they are unimmunised) from the medical stuff I read, they say no....but anyone read any different?
Just watching a show and they seem to think the most likely source of a child getting whooping cough is the parents/grandparents.....so would figure if I dont want to immunise my boys then why not myself? Heck Ive already put worse poisons into my boys...with alcohol/cigarettes and drugs as a youngster
Posted 15 May 2009 - 08:23 AM
Cat - I know what you are trying to achieve - but I personally wouldn't be doing it that way to protect your kids.
They may come in contact with many others that could have it anyway.
I am actually surprised that newly vaxxed kids are able to go back in schools etc straight away as I think they actually have just been given some of the virus and could potentially pass it on in an atypical way that is not the real virus (if that makes sense).
This is just my opinion so please accept it as that - I would hate to be telling you the wrong thing.
Any other opinions on this?
Posted 15 May 2009 - 09:24 AM
The bacterium in the acellular pertussis vaccine is not live and so I'm inclined to believe that it cannot be spread between persons.
My (non-medical opinion) is that the reason so many vaccinated kids are getting it is that the vaccine is simply not effective. I can't seem to find anything other than 'estimates' for it being about 80% effective, but how they get that statistic is not clear. I also suspect that the figure would not be based on a random cross-section of the community given that vaccine testing is generally only done on discrete healthy populations. So in reality, it could actually be only 50% effective, or worse.
I know where you are coming from Cat, I have been considering getting the vaccine as well. However, I'm in two minds given that it doesn't seem to work anyway.
Posted 16 May 2009 - 10:08 AM
Just wanted to add that its the endotoxins of the bacteria that are causing the "symptoms" of the WC. I've got a pdf article which will be in this coming Living Wisdom magazine.
Basically, your body fights the WC bacteria for two weeks prior to symptoms showing. Its this time that you are contagious. When the actual runny eyes nose and cough start, the contagious stage is over, and the symptoms only show once the level of endotoxins are sufficient to produce the symptoms.
According to the PDF Sweden stopped vaccinating for WC in 1979. This was because they found that it was completely ineffective at preventing whooping cough infections and it had an unacceptable rate of side-effects. Dr Harold Buttram, an American Physician who has researched and published information about vaccination for over 40 years writes, "The seldom publicised history of the pertussis vaccine in Sweden, gives an entirely different point of view from that of the US public health service. Sweden banned the pertussis vaccine in 1979, and yet Sweden now has the second lowest infant mortality rate in the world, whereas the United States ranks a very poor 20th or lower.
Edited by sallybelly, 16 May 2009 - 10:26 AM.
Posted 16 May 2009 - 10:45 AM
IMO i wouldn't be getting the WC vaccine myself.
What i don't understand is....
According to the PDF Sweden stopped vaccinating for WC in 1979. This was because they found that it was completely ineffective at preventing whooping cough infections and it had an unacceptable rate of side-effects.
OK, so people are still getting the WC vaccine thinking "their protected", but in actual fact, their not (as shown above), so wouldn't it be the same as if they weren't getting the vaccine at all? Did that make sense?
Sweden banned the pertussis vaccine in 1979, and yet Sweden now has the second lowest infant mortality rate in the world, whereas the United States ranks a very poor 20th or lower.
Why is their infant mortality rate low and everyone elses isn't if the vaccine is not working? (which to me would be like NOT getting the vaccine at all)
IMO, their has to be something in the vaccine that is giving the people the WC (well, besides all the other nasty toxins)... i just don't get it. Where are the toxins associated from the bacteria coming from? The vaccine?
Sally i'm really interested to read the study, are you able to email the pdf file or do we have to wait for the magazine to come out?
Edited by ReneS, 16 May 2009 - 10:51 AM.
Posted 16 May 2009 - 11:06 AM
That is very interesting study. Any one with any reasoning can see that WC vaccine is not working. So government start this rubbish about needing boosters and giving parents the guilt factor. 20 years ago they were declaring how the vaccine works great no need for booster. Now out of nowhere there is an outbreak and suddenly you need boosters. It seems to me that the virus is running its own course.
Why do kids need to be excluded when there is WC in the centre? Surely if it has an incubation period of a few weeks the damage is done well before the onset? Also is it the risk to the unvax kid or the vax kids? We can see clearly that both can pass on and be affected by the virus.
I am confused.
Posted 16 May 2009 - 06:43 PM
I know it doesn't seem logical... interestingly Sweden was the only Country in 1979 to NOT have Aluminium in the vaccine. Most of us here probably already know that the Aluminium is put into the vaccines to stimulate the immune system into a reaction. Apparently without the aluminium in the vaccine their version made in Sweden had very little effect. Just makes you wonder?? There have been studies recommending the reintroduction of the vaccine in Sweden, but I haven't looked into it to see if it is now on their schedule. As I've mentioned in previous posts, my brother got WC from the vaccine in 1966. Myself and my siblings all had reactions to the vaccines every step of the way and the child health nurses just swept it under the carpet... I even have it in the nurses writing in my well baby booklet. Our reactions have never been reported. So that's in total at least 8 reactions in my family alone...
If you want a copy of the PDF just email AVN for a copy of it, they are only to glad to share the information.
Posted 22 May 2009 - 05:55 AM
You ladies are such a wealth of knowledge. I agree with all that has been said about WC vaccine.... but we've forgotten these so called boosters are given as the triple DTP (Diptheria, Tetenus & Pertusis) excuse spelling... so not only are these people bringing these damn WC germs to the fore, but also a disease that hasn't been seen for SOOO long Dipetheria! arrrrgh! this drives me crazy.
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